Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

Originally posted by suzque66
You or the masons should not be keeping track of ANY one else's children.
[edit on 26-5-2009 by suzque66]

The masons don't keep track of anyone's children, not through this program or any other. Don't you get that? The parents keep the info, no one else.

So, you're effectively arguing against a false position.

It's just like saying "amateur golfers shouldn't beat up on their wives". There is no evidence that amateur golfers beat up their wives in the first place.

That's just a silly hypothetical, of course, but I only use it to demonstrate that the whole premise of your contribution in this thread is based on a false assumption!

The fact that the thread has gone on for so long, with you clearly ignoring the actual facts of the matter, demonstrates nothing more than your irrational prejudice against anything associated with Freemasonry.

The whole thing is just plain loopy, mate.

"The fact that the thread has gone on for so long, with you clearly ignoring the actual facts of the matter, demonstrates nothing more than your irrational prejudice against anything associated with Freemasonry. "

It is just plain prejudice, nothing irrational about it. lol

If I liked to hang around with them, I'd likey be here defending them as you do.

It still hasn't been disproven that no database is kept. I guess the only time we will find out is when certain adults disappear or if when the next generation grow up and have some genetic illness that causes forced sterilization or something of the like.

The possiblilities are endless what it could be used for.

People act like wireless internet has not been invented or somethin' , eeesh.

Originally posted by suzque66
It is just plain prejudice, nothing irrational about it.

It is irrational if it's not based on reason. You are entitled to your low opinion of Freemasons, of course, but you have yet to demonstrate the reasons why you have this opinion. These might be personal, and you may be unwilling to share them but, at current face value, based on what you've said thus far it does seem irrational.

I'm not "demanding" to know, by the way. Just curious.

Originally posted by suzque66It still hasn't been disproven that no database is kept. I guess the only time we will find out is when certain adults disappear or if when the next generation grow up and have some genetic illness that causes forced sterilization or something of the like.

It hasn't been disproven that no database is kept?

It also hasn't been disproven that Sesame Street's Big Bird doesn't moonlight as a burlesque cabaret dancer.

It hasn't been disproven that I have a purple dragon under my bed named Gerald.

Disproving a negative is in many cases (such as this) a logical impossibility. The burden of proof actually lies upon you, who assert or insinuate that there IS a database that is kept for nefarious purposes.

:-)

I am not obligated to tell you why I dislike them.

I am not even obligated to negotiate theories on why they shouldn't be trusted, but I do.

You worry about what puppets do after their act is done? uhh ok, I don't.

I do worry about what goes on with REAL people during their working/volunteer hours when they collect REAL information on children
as a 'public service' doing the dirty work so that people don't suspect the government. I would fathom to guess 70%+ of the (influential) Masons in attendance are actually government employees on government contract payroll in their day/regular jobs or pre-retirement. I doubt all of them are what one would consider 'working class-stone cutters'.

The subject is more or less 'who would be dumb enough to trust this system of paranoia-caused faux-savior mentality?'

Bringing in internet claims of Masononic-fanatics with excuses and with little information about actual facts (since you did not develop the system itself) and who resort to attacking my parenting ability personally is lame, lame.

You don't have a clue that you are being manipulated as much as the people who line up to give power and authority away to these social- disfunction pirates.

Taking advantage of a bad situation is just that...emotional piracy.

Originally posted by suzque66
I am not obligated to tell you why I dislike them.

That's pretty much what I said in my previous post. If you did, though, it might lend creedence to your prejudice. As it stands, you appear to be kind of a crank.

Originally posted by suzque66
You worry about what puppets do after their act is done? uhh ok, I don't.

Huh? what does this mean? I worry about puppets? Huh?

Originally posted by suzque66
I do worry about what goes on with REAL people during their working/volunteer hours when they collect REAL information on children
as a 'public service' doing the dirty work so that people don't suspect the government. I would fathom to guess 70%+ of the (influential) Masons in attendance are actually government employees on government contract payroll in their day/regular jobs or pre-retirement. I doubt all of them are what one would consider 'working class-stone cutters'.

Are you suggesting that the Masons involved with the CHIP program are actually working for the government???

Originally posted by suzque66
The subject is more or less 'who would be dumb enough to trust this system of paranoia-caused faux-savior mentality?'

Huh? You think the program is about engendering a faux-saviour mentality? Is St John's Ambulance the same? What about the Salvation Army, or UNICEF? Are all charities guilty of this, or is it just Freemasonry? And, if so, why is it just Freemasonry? Because you don't like them?

Originally posted by suzque66
Bringing in internet claims of Masononic-fanatics with excuses and with little information about actual facts (since you did not develop the system itself) and who resort to attacking my parenting ability personally is lame, lame.

"Actual facts" eh. It's interesting that you say this when you have presented no "actual facts" of your own. Just suspicions and suggestions based on your (admitted) prejudice. Suspicions like "oh, they're working for the government". How can you expect to be taken seriously?

Originally posted by suzque66
You don't have a clue that you are being manipulated as much as the people who line up to give power and authority away to these social- disfunction pirates.

How am I being manipulated? I'm seriously interested to know this.

Originally posted by suzque66
Taking advantage of a bad situation is just that...emotional piracy.

What bad situation? The program is about preventative measures, as far as I can see. And how do the Masons benefit exactly?

Originally posted by suzque66
It is just plain prejudice, nothing irrational about it. lol

Prejudice: A judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known. In most cases, these opinions are founded on suspicion, intolerance, and the irrational hatred of other races, religions, creeds, or nationalities.

Originally posted by suzque66
It still hasn't been disproven that no database is kept. I guess the only time we will find out is when certain adults disappear or if when the next generation grow up and have some genetic illness that causes forced sterilization or something of the like.

The possiblilities are endless what it could be used for.

People act like wireless internet has not been invented or somethin' , eeesh.

This program has existed since the 90s, prove there is a database. Where are all the missing people from this program so far? You are so paranoid from this harmless program.

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by suzque66
I am not obligated to tell you why I dislike them.

That's pretty much what I said in my previous post. If you did, though, it might lend creedence to your prejudice. As it stands, you appear to be kind of a crank.

Oh well your opinion.

Originally posted by suzque66
You worry about what puppets do after their act is done? uhh ok, I don't.

doh, I don't do the quotes properly. oh well.

Huh? what does this mean? I worry about puppets? Huh?

I didn't compare this to puppets, you did.

Originally posted by suzque66
I do worry about what goes on with REAL people during their working/volunteer hours when they collect REAL information on children
as a 'public service' doing the dirty work so that people don't suspect the government. I would fathom to guess 70%+ of the (influential) Masons in attendance are actually government employees on government contract payroll in their day/regular jobs or pre-retirement. I doubt all of them are what one would consider 'working class-stone cutters'.

Are you suggesting that the Masons involved with the CHIP program are actually working for the government???

Yes

Originally posted by suzque66
The subject is more or less 'who would be dumb enough to trust this system of paranoia-caused faux-savior mentality?'

Huh? You think the program is about engendering a faux-saviour mentality? Is St John's Ambulance the same? What about the Salvation Army, or UNICEF? Are all charities guilty of this, or is it just Freemasonry? And, if so, why is it just Freemasonry? Because you don't like them?

Yes, all of the above are also involved.

Originally posted by suzque66
Bringing in internet claims of Masononic-fanatics with excuses and with little information about actual facts (since you did not develop the system itself) and who resort to attacking my parenting ability personally is lame, lame.

"Actual facts" eh. It's interesting that you say this when you have presented no "actual facts" of your own. Just suspicions and suggestions based on your (admitted) prejudice. Suspicions like "oh, they're working for the government". How can you expect to be taken seriously?

I have suspicious that asked for actual facts...so where are they?

Originally posted by suzque66
You don't have a clue that you are being manipulated as much as the people who line up to give power and authority away to these social- disfunction pirates.

How am I being manipulated? I'm seriously interested to know this.

It is obvious you are a follow the leader/whoever seems to be in charge/in authority type. Sad.

Originally posted by suzque66
Taking advantage of a bad situation is just that...emotional piracy.

What bad situation? The program is about preventative measures, as far as I can see. And how do the Masons benefit exactly?

Preventive now? The ones who have posted here that claim to be Masons exclaim 'nothing about this program is for preventive measures'. How is it you see it as preventive? The Masons benefit by getting lodge donations for their time and efforts. Do you think they do this for nothing? lol

[edit on 26-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by suzque66
It is just plain prejudice, nothing irrational about it. lol

Prejudice: A judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known. In most cases, these opinions are founded on suspicion, intolerance, and the irrational hatred of other races, religions, creeds, or nationalities.

Originally posted by suzque66
It still hasn't been disproven that no database is kept. I guess the only time we will find out is when certain adults disappear or if when the next generation grow up and have some genetic illness that causes forced sterilization or something of the like.

The possiblilities are endless what it could be used for.

People act like wireless internet has not been invented or somethin' , eeesh.

This program has existed since the 90s, prove there is a database. Where are all the missing people from this program so far? You are so paranoid from this harmless program.

Get over it , I do not like you or what your group stands for. You can write until you are blue in the face. Your brainwashed mentality means nothing to me. You need to learn some independance and stop breastfeeding off of Mason's teet.

reply to post by suzque66

Then pardon us when we don't believe anything you say since you have some irrational fear and hatred of the Freemasons. If you don't give reason with your argument then it really is invalid and not logical.

Unless you can prove any of your allegations then you're just a fear mongering.

I, in fact, am the founder of the Idaho Masonic Child Identification Program and I am leading the State committee, so I would know a little about this program. I wonder what experience you have with this program that makes you even believe that a database could exist?

I love how charity in your eyes is piracy. That really shows the content of your character.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by KSigMason]

reply to post by suzque66

I could care less since it's an irrational fear. From what I've seen you post, I don't like your values and I am proud to be associated with the Freemasons.

Originally posted by suzque66
Preventive now? The ones who have posted here that claim to be Masons exclaim 'nothing about this program is for preventive measures'. How is it you see it as preventive?

I'm not speaking for anyone else here, Suz. As I said: "...as far as I can see".

I see it as preventative in that, if the parents have the information a bad situation can potentially be prevented from getting worse. That's all.

Originally posted by suzque66The Masons benefit by getting lodge donations for their time and efforts. Do you think they do this for nothing? lol

Uhh, yeah. That's the whole point of charitable work, which you apparently completely FAIL to realise.

No single Mason ever benefits from donations to their hosted charities. the money goes into the stipulated charity. Anything else would be fraud. That's how charities work.

Are you being deliberately obtuse????

If I am fear mongling, then oh well. Then you are here to pacify the weak into believing your organization is a saviour sent from God.

If you work for such 'organization' then you must believe in it all all costs, I understand your livelyhood demands that. Mine, on the other hand doesn't. I don't follow the leader to anyone, especially a group of grown men that wear costumes to sit around and bullsh*t daily like every day is Hallowe'en. Your days of secret meetings in a treehouse above other should have been satiated by the time you were 11. The only difference now is that you all have cellphones instead of a dixie cup and a string. Grow up, become independent thinkers LOL.

Many charities are frauds and the heads of such make outrageous salaries for doing little to nothing and using volunteers at the bottom level to do the actual work...that is is a fact.

Charities have CEO's as do banks and automobile companies. Yet, we trusted these organizations far as a means of bread and butter (as well as our children's future and other social needs). Yes, nothing could happen to them, they would NEVER, EVER become corrupt..*rolls eyes.

Since you two ...or 4 masons (or mason wannabees, who knows, who cares?) are hell belt on being a thorn in my buttocks, you will be ignored for the mere fact that you are here as disinformants of an agenda you have no clue about because you are far too immature.

I don't follow the advice of 'internet doctors' and I certainly won't follow the 'I am a masonic leader'. Again, you bark up the wrong tree if you think you will ever change MY mind.





[edit on 27-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by suzque66

 

Then pardon us when we don't believe anything you say since you have some irrational fear and hatred of the Freemasons. If you don't give reason with your argument then it really is invalid and not logical.

Unless you can prove any of your allegations then you're just a fear mongering.

I, in fact, am the founder of the Idaho Masonic Child Identification Program and I am leading the State committee, so I would know a little about this program. I wonder what experience you have with this program that makes you even believe that a database could exist?

I love how charity in your eyes is piracy. That really shows the content of your character.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by KSigMason]

Innocent or not, your little secret society does a lot of really weird crap and you know it, so I'm pretty charitable to anyone who is skeptical of the Freemasons. In any case, you sure do get pretty offended and use a lot of ad hominems for someone who says "If you don't give reason with your argument then it really is invalid and not logical." So stop worrying about the content of this guy's character. I think he's a pretty stand-up guy considering he's still posting here after you and your two mason buddies spent the last 6 or 7 pages of this thread trying to derail the topic and marginalize him.

Tell you what. If you will state for the record right now that the CHIP program never intends to plant microchips into children, then I'm sure most people would chill out about this whole thing. However, there is no way you would do that because you know that the program in its current state is pretty much pointless. A kit with DNA, fingerprints, and a dental impression won't find a kid that just went missing, and neither will any of that other crap that they are doing. Not only can parents provide their own DNA, pictures, and videos, but they can get the dental impression from their orthodontist or dentist. In any case, this program in its current state is POINTLESS to help find a child that just went missing, which is why the ultimate plan of the CHIP program is to CHIP YOUR KIDS. DUH.

Originally in linked article
“I wanted to get a microchip [implanted in their skin], but they wouldn’t do it,” joked Yale Glazer, of Montvale, as he shared popcorn with his daughter Ryan, 6, and son Justin, 4, and watched an acoustic band. “But this is great too. Every little bit helps, if it comes to that.”

According to the guy in the article, IT WOULD BE GREAT if he could microchip his kids. Theres just SO MUCH DEMAND FOR IT!

KSigMason, if you guys are totally innocent here's your chance to prove it for all posterity, as long as this thread lasts, which could be forever, who knows! Simply post in this thread that the CHIP program never plans to microchip children, ever, because that would be a huge violation of the rights of children who would be unable to provide consent to being chipped. Will you do that? If so, I'm sure it would put people at ease a lot faster than pages and pages of senseless bickering and pseudo-debate.

You have to wonder what it's really for, this program, and why they called it Masonichip.

It makes my "spidey senses" tingle, and I trust my intuition. There's something eerie about it.

Yes it would be good if they made official statements to that effect, that there never will, under any circumstances, be microchipping of children for child ID purposes in the event of abductions, which are so damn rare one wonders why this program is neccessary in the first place.

You have to wonder what it's really for, this program, and why they called it Masonichip.

It makes my "spidey senses" tingle, and I trust my intuition. There's something eerie about it.

Yes it would be good if they made official statements to that effect, that there never will, under any circumstances, be microchipping of children for child ID purposes in the event of abductions, which are so damn rare one wonders why this program is neccessary in the first place.

Originally posted by Albastion
I think he's a pretty stand-up guy considering he's still posting here after you and your two mason buddies spent the last 6 or 7 pages of this thread trying to derail the topic and marginalize him.

Everything thus far has been on-topic or a response to the original poster. So, how do you figure anyone attempted to "derail" it? Give me a break.

Originally posted by Albastion
Tell you what. If you will state for the record right now that the CHIP program never intends to plant microchips into children, then I'm sure most people would chill out about this whole thing.

That is so incredibly naive I don't know where to begin.

Do you honestly think that people like Suz (who has admitted to being deeply prejudiced against Freemasonry for no stated reason) is going to believe it if he posts his assurances about the program?

There is absolutely NO evidence of ANYTHING involving microchipping apart from the unsubstantiated musings of people with active imaginations.

NOTHING!

It just came out of nowhere! It popped right out of people's heads!

And now you want him to DISPROVE that the microchipping will take place????

This entire thread is a sad farce. It is a truly horrific monument to the stupidity of prejudice, and to the boundless energy of fearful paranoia.

I don't want you to DISPROVE anything. That doesn't make any sense. Like Saddam Hussein said the day before the invasion (roughly), "How do you prove something is not so?"

I am just asking you to state it for the record. KSigMason is in a position of authority in the IDCHIP program by his own admittance and he should be able to do that without complaint.

Don't you think you are making a big deal out of a simple request? Don't you agree that it would be immoral to microchip a child who cannot consent to being chipped?



[edit on 27-5-2009 by Albastion]

As for the accusation of derailing, I consider a pages-long flame war between one dude and 2 or 3 other dudes that go on for pages and pages a thread derailment, I don't care who started it, who is right, who is arguing, whatever, because it is distracting from the topic at hand. I know you guys are doing what you think is right and providing a service which is commendable. However, in the context of a forum, it is a place for discussion and you can't just go around saying crap like "[this thread] is a truly horrific monument to the stupidity of prejudice, and to the boundless energy of fearful paranoia" to new posters in the thread that have valid points. I don't hate Masons, but it is suspicious that your organization for finding lost children is called CHIP, and in the article a guy talked about microchipping as if it was the next step.

So KSig, go ahead and announce in this thread that your organization will never microchip children because they are too young to give legal consent to being chipped. It is not an unreasonable request because it's a win/win: this way if the organization never chips anyone you avoid unnecessary suspicion in the meantime, and if it DOES chip anyone (which hopefully you agree would be immoral) we can point to this thread and call out the perpetrators. You don't have to 'prove' anything. Just give us your word.

I am wondering how and when I turned into a dude.

Besides, if someone had such credentials, you'd think they'd have better information and not just empty threats and repetative arguements.

This thread, because they have no answers continue to be a anti-Suz, Suz is bla bla this/that.

The thread HAS been derailed several times by worries of what Suz does in her spare time and comments about my ridiculous profile that I filled in just to fill it in.

Suz is a nobody you will never meet, so stick to the topic or get off the boat Masons.

Originally posted by Albastion


Innocent or not, your little secret society does a lot of really weird crap and you know it

Like what?

Tell you what. If you will state for the record right now that the CHIP program never intends to plant microchips into children, then I'm sure most people would chill out about this whole thing.

I'll state it for the record. The CHiP Program never intends to microchip anybody.

However, there is no way you would do that because you know that the program in its current state is pretty much pointless.

The CHiP program began when the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children stated a need for it, but couldn't fund it. A guy brought the idea to his Lodge to help the Children's Center, the Lodge approved it, and the program spread quickly to other Lodges because of its success.