Jesus sounds too amazing

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Well, I have to say man, saying anything close to 'Why would lying benefit' is actually a really good question for EVERY lie. Now, maybe is just for morals? Ya know, having an ordinary guy that is poor but still doing good deeds. Now, a great question, has it ever been changed! I really want to know the answer to that. I would think so, right?

reply to post by Bryan LaVergne


Well i honestly think people go to christ becuase christianity requires you to do nothing but feel repentance at death. It puts the person in a state of no responisibility for their actions, you can do whatever you want as long as you repent jesus will forgive you. When you die you go to heaven end of story and everything is happy forever. However as much as i think it is false in the respect i think these events never actually took place it does not change the value of the book. That is to say if jesus is a fictional character does that change what was written? Does that make his advice bad? I do not think it does.

Originally posted by The Mack
even biblical characters match up to the egyptian pharos
Jacob: 1758 – 1611 BC, King Yakubher reign: 1655 – 1646 BC
King David reign: 1012 – 962 BC, Psusennes reign: 1039-991 BC
Moses: 1527 – 1407 BC, Thutmose the third reign: 1479 - 1425 BC
Abraham: 2055 – 1880 BC, Amenemhet the first reign: 1991 – 1962 BC
King Solomon reign: 970 – 931 BC, Siamun reign: 978 – 959 BC

With all due respect, the fact that they were contemporaries of each other doesn't demonstrate anything at all.

Furthermore, there are multiple corroborative sources which refer to these historical figures.

Why should the Hebrew figures be "archetypes" and the Egyptians be historical??

That's like saying that the Hittites were mythological, but the Moabites were real. Strange, duder.


[edit on 20-5-2009 by Roark]

If you were to assign characteristics and traits to a human being infused with a God's power or abilities or magic or whatever you want to call it How different would they be from Jesus?

This is what I found as the "egyptian version" doing a simple search

from - www.mazes.com...

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, be gracious unto us, O Lord our God, hallowed be Thy Name, and let the remembrance of Thee be glorified in Heaven above and upon earth here below.

Let Thy kingdom reign over us now and forever. The Holy Men of old said remit and forgive unto all men whatsoever they have done unto me. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil thing; for Thine is the kingdom and Thou shalt reign in glory forever and forevermore. AMEN.

not so sure about the source....but intriguing none the less

Originally posted by The Mack
reply to post by Bryan LaVergne

 

Well i honestly think people go to christ becuase christianity requires you to do nothing but feel repentance at death. It puts the person in a state of no responisibility for their actions, you can do whatever you want as long as you repent jesus will forgive you. When you die you go to heaven end of story and everything is happy forever.

yeh i think alot of people might do that, but some see the light eventually ..

its difficult for man to humble himself..


Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, \"Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.\"
Mark 10:15 \"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.\"

Luke 18:17 \"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.\"

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.


bible.cc...

reply to post by Roark


Because the egyptians were very good at keeping historical records while others did not do such a good job. Well take king david for example the Tel Dan Inscription is used to proove the existance of daivd by saying that the Tel dan inscription says "house of david" and even the inscription is being debated even though they have not even touched on the subject of is it in reference to king david. The egyptian history was written as it happened which is why it was so well documented and we have some of their bodies they are called mummies.

reply to post by prjct


yeah there are variations of it but it is the lord's prayer no matter how you cut it. It is an issue as with any translations but you get the idea. even Amen is an egyptian word (amen-ra) which is still used by christians today.
well it has been fun but i have a fight tonight so i'll be around tommorrow peace.
[edit on 20-5-2009 by The Mack]

[edit on 20-5-2009 by The Mack]

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Well let me try and explain where I am trying to go with this.

Please try again...

I am an Athiest and I was raised a Lutheran. I am somewhat familiar with the King James Bible and was thinking about the story of Jesus recently.

'Somewhat..?!'...you have 'some' knowledge of the subject, yet a 'profound' opinion..? You give Atheists a bad name.

If any other Atheists or Agnostics can get in on this with opinions would be awesome.

No turkey...if you are TRULY interested in the subject matter, you would welcome ALL views - take in the good and disregard the bad...






On Topic:

What kind of an Author would piece together all of the things found throughout the history of religion to describe someone like this?

TPTB...then and now.

This is what I found as the "egyptian version" doing a simple search

from - www.mazes.com...

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, be gracious unto us, O Lord our God, hallowed be Thy Name, and let the remembrance of Thee be glorified in Heaven above and upon earth here below.

Let Thy kingdom reign over us now and forever. The Holy Men of old said remit and forgive unto all men whatsoever they have done unto me. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil thing; for Thine is the kingdom and Thou shalt reign in glory forever and forevermore. AMEN.

not so sure about the source....but intriguing none the less

Interesting in that this is Egyptian and is written in 17th Century English? Obviously a Coptic version.

I believe that a lot of history gets repeated because it takes a lot to get our attention! I don't understand why that is ever used as an argument. If Horus represents Jesus, I see no problem with this. His mythology could have been representative of a future godlike being, or at least someone very special to have history forerunners.

Personally, I strongly believe that where there is smoke there is fire. It is more likely that Jesus did indeed live as his existence has been passed down for 2,000 years. Man IMO is too dysfunctional to be capable of passing down a story with any kind of semblance of accuracy for this many years.

Yes, I realize the Bible has "issues" yet, his story made it down to this present day. How accurate is his story? Who knows, but HE LIVED. That is the point.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

I don't understand why that is ever used as an argument. If Horus represents Jesus, I see no problem with this. His mythology could have been representative of a future godlike being, or at least someone very special to have history forerunners.

And it is that kind of talk that converted so many people away from the worship of their own gods. It does not say christianity is true it is just so much like what you guys think why not convert.

And even the bible has been traslated way to many times and poory translated at times so do not bring that argument up.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by The Mack]

Originally posted by chapter29

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Well let me try and explain where I am trying to go with this.

Please try again...

I am an Athiest and I was raised a Lutheran. I am somewhat familiar with the King James Bible and was thinking about the story of Jesus recently.

'Somewhat..?!'...you have 'some' knowledge of the subject, yet a 'profound' opinion..? You give Atheists a bad name.

If any other Atheists or Agnostics can get in on this with opinions would be awesome.

No turkey...if you are TRULY interested in the subject matter, you would welcome ALL views - take in the good and disregard the bad...

On Topic:

What kind of an Author would piece together all of the things found throughout the history of religion to describe someone like this?

TPTB...then and now.

Hey Chapter 29. I do have some knowledge that led me to an opinion. I am sorry if you think this gives Atheists a bad name

I did not mean to exclude Non Atheists and Agnostics for a negative reason I was just hoping to keep the discussion more focused towards questioning. It seems many people who take this discussion to heart are less interested in analyzing and questioning.

Sorry If I offended you. I DO like to be challenged and have people give different ideas and theories.

Ok I got a new one. I was trying to track down the best possible evidence for the authors of Jesus and instead found another really good question. Ok here it is.

Why Didn't Jesus write?

Originally posted by The Mack
reply to post by Roark

 

Because the egyptians were very good at keeping historical records while others did not do such a good job. Well take king david for example the Tel Dan Inscription is used to proove the existance of daivd by saying that the Tel dan inscription says "house of david" and even the inscription is being debated even though they have not even touched on the subject of is it in reference to king david. The egyptian history was written as it happened which is why it was so well documented and we have some of their bodies they are called mummies.

Ah, so you discount all oral traditions out of hand, regardless of the fact that people groups like the Hebrews had men whose entire existence was dedicated to learning their oral scriptures and records and geneologies by rote?

I think that suggesting the Hebrew patriarchs were not real historical figures flies in the face of all sensible and accepted scholastic learning. Interesting concepts, though.

reply to post by The Mack

And it is that kind of talk that converted so many people away from the worship of their own gods. It does not say christianity is true it is just so much like what you guys think why not convert.

And even the bible has been traslated way to many times and poory translated at times so do not bring that argument up.

????

What is it you are saying to me?

And how long have you been with ATS?

Do you even know my stance on all of this?

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

Why Didn't Jesus write?

Most likely because he knew matters would have to unfold in the way I am sure all the Gods knew they would.

It is possible he was part of a set-up to lead man to their religious demise. If we look at all of it as part of a Game, then we can see that he could have been a willing part of a test for man.

Man failed the test with Paul. So it went according to plan.

reply to post by Roark


Actually thats not true.. we have plenty of evidence such as Julias Caesar on coins, among other things.

Some say Julius Caesar is Jesus, just put into mythology.

And I challenge the sources such as Josephus (Not familiar with Pliny) because it sounds like a forgery. Josephus wasn't a secular historian, he was a Jew. I find it odd that a Jew (Not a Christian!) would refer to a man as "The Christ" if he wasn't a follower.

reply to post by Roark


yes flies in the face of all sensible and accepted scholastic learning. Jacob lived to be 147 years old and was renamed by an angel. King David we already went over that one. Moses again no evidence a few historians wrote about him LONG after he was dead even though moses was alive for 120 years. King solmon again we have some proof and those are only structures that may have existed durring his reign but again it is looking like all these things came after he was dead.

Originally posted by Miraj
Actually thats not true.. we have plenty of evidence such as Julias Caesar on coins, among other things.

Some say Julius Caesar is Jesus, just put into mythology.

And I challenge the sources such as Josephus (Not familiar with Pliny) because it sounds like a forgery. Josephus wasn't a secular historian, he was a Jew. I find it odd that a Jew (Not a Christian!) would refer to a man as "The Christ" if he wasn't a follower.

1. I wasn't talking about coins. If you look at my original post, I was specifically discussing manuscriptural samples. Papers, writings etc...

2. Josephus didn't actually think of Yeheshua/Jesus as "the Christ". He viewed Christianity as a quirky little cult. He is a well-established historian, and he is widely accepted to have existed. He wrote about lots of other stuff too, duder. He was secular in the sense that he wasn't writing as an adoring Christian follower and that his role as a historian wasn't financed or patronised by a religious body, nor was he writing as a religious figure.
3. Anyone who thinks of the personages of Jesus OR Julius as myths is ignoring a whole bunch of evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by The Mack
reply to post by Roark

 

yes flies in the face of all sensible and accepted scholastic learning. Jacob lived to be 147 years old and was renamed by an angel. King David we already went over that one. Moses again no evidence a few historians wrote about him LONG after he was dead even though moses was alive for 120 years. King solmon again we have some proof and those are only structures that may have existed durring his reign but again it is looking like all these things came after he was dead.

Whether the ancient Hebrews measured time differently to us, or exaggerated the virility and longevity of their leaders, is neither here nor there dude. Records of Caesar's various campaigns state impossible numbers of dead and/or conquered people.

It doesn't detract in any meanginful way from the importance that the ancient Hebrews placed on recording their lineages and ancestry.