Originally posted by oconnection
Remember Maban said not to focus so much on the messenger but of the message. Now we can understand why he said this a bit better. But if what he said had some truth to it, that statement still rings true, doesn't it?

Of course it does. Truth or not. Maban, whatever else he was, was highly informed and when enthused about a topic, it was an absolute pleasure to read his posts. Plus, he is one of very, very few posters on this site that has truly challenged my own perception. I will greatly miss such a mind.

If it is fiction I assured myself that his intentions were good and that he genuinely had a need to communicate in this way, that in a way was a fascination in itself, at times that was my preferred scenario.

For me, those that can only concern themselves with debunking and labelling it all as a hoax are clearly missing the point and the message. But each to their own, to some people winning and being right is all important, others know that the real joy is in simply taking part and enjoying the ride, whether you fall on your arse at the end of it or not. This is especially true in this case, putting Maban to one side for a moment, when the company has been so agreeable.

Maban, I hope you are well and that you will eventually get in touch with those that you have previously spoken to through IM, and that they can let us know that you are really okay.

Take care and thank you for everything.







[edit on 20-5-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

KilgoreTrout your posts have always been enjoyable, I'm glad your still willing to contribute. One of the first concerns I had when the Shards thread was closed was that many key contributors would loose interest. So far it seems that this drama hasn't caused key pupils to loose stomach.

Your wisdom and insight has helped me at times when I was doubting. I've said many a times that perhaps we should over look some concerns of credibility and look deep down inside and ask is this relevant, is there truth to such statements. You helped me overcome my dis-belief in many areas.

Do I think Maban and his many different characters are fiction, not entirely. So I still see an enormous amount of potential.

The first thing I did was download an offline copy of the entire Shards thread in case it disappeared some how. Call me a little paranoid but I always like to prepared. =)

I have a question on the ip thing.

Providing the account was banned from multiple activity from a singlar ip address, don't you think if these guy's had the technology spoken of as far as communications, and operating with stealth over the internet, that they would have had the skills to either bounce their tunnel through a few public servers in different countries or similar to obscure their ip, or maybe even have a few different ISP's through which they post?

Not hard to get a few different dial up accounts or even spoof your ip/mac address these day's.

Originally posted by afaik
I have a question on the ip thing.

Providing the account was banned from multiple activity from a singlar ip address, don't you think if these guy's had the technology spoken of as far as communications, and operating with stealth over the internet, that they would have had the skills to either bounce their tunnel through a few public servers in different countries or similar to obscure their ip, or maybe even have a few different ISP's through which they post?

Not hard to get a few different dial up accounts or even spoof your ip/mac address these day's.

I think that the bigger question is why people cannot live and let live. All of those contributing regularly to the thread were more than well aware of the fact that it could in some people's eyes be judged a hoax. Most of us had suspicions that all three were Maban and I talked to others privately by U2U to that effect. It concerned us little and did not detract from the thread content in my opinion nor did it in anyway detract from my esteem for Maban. I admire his input in this thread whether he has created it, or whether he was all that he has claimed to be.

Given that Maban and Tenzin have not been online for some time, and to my knowledge none of them were ever online together, some considerable effort must have been placed in matching those IP addresses and thereby finding just cause to close the thread. It is not my place to question the T&Cs, but obviously someone was pretty driven towards having the thread closed, whether that was pushed through by staff or members I don't know, but it is a crying shame in my opinion and indicative of a culture that destroys that which it doesn't understand.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by oconnection
The American people, though they may be blind, they will not let a foreign entity come in and rule over there lives. The American people are far too proud to let such non-sense happen.

They already have...
The foreign entity I observed has not annihilated America.
It does RULE LIFE there though. And it has already done so for 30-some years. Not the life of everybody, and it rules not only America.

Americans are among the most high-spirited and inventive crowds on the planet. However, there is a foreign power ruling now. You may want to shake it off.

It is an octopus-like structure with tentacles - big business that rooted out traditional American values and ways of life is no more American than a Chinese screw set sold with Saudi capital in a US hardware store...

The original Maban posts resonated with me as well. There was a hopeful sort of poetry to his message.

I discounted his love for video gaming and anime because everyone needs hobbies.

Later on when I confronted him with things I'd found on the internet (other forums where he posted the same Illuminon info) he told me that he had indeed lied about things but gave plausible excuses for the lies.

The thing that linked Maban, Tenzin and Kvasir together was that they all made the same typographical and grammatical errors in their posts. Specifically transposing the last two letters of "would" as "woudl". (Many of us have tried to do that on purpose and it's hard. Internet searches for similar errors lead back here).

The other error was using the word "whom" in the wrong context. When Maban did it, no big deal. Then when Tenzin did it during the whole "Maban died" episode it raised alarm bells.

When Kvasir did it several of us confronted him and he began making very nasty threats. Like... creepy "we're gonna get you" threats about Remnants and "NIA" tracking our activities, and how we were all standing in the way of an official investigation.

It got unnerving for a while.

Kvasir even described to me in gory detail the remains of Maban's body when I asked if he was dead. The next day the story changed to "missing but presumed dead" and "Tenzin is under house arrest", finally to "Hosanna! Maban lives!"

When he said Maban and Tenzin had been banned from ATS, I checked. That was a lie. Both were still members in good standing.

I went back to the gaming forums I had found Maban on last year. Most had not been logged onto, but I did find one board where the account was used this week (Friday). I followed that trail to find "Maban" on a gaming clan forum with all his player statistics, including his proficiency with all the "weapons" he claimed to use on this board.

That board is located on a server in Seattle. That server also hosts a conspiracy theory site with copies of Alex Jones and 9/11 Truther videos.

When I found the owners of the server and their usernames I checked back on ATS and voila! They were both members on here for a couple of years, but never posted.

My working theory is that it was a group of gamers in Seattle with varying levels of intelligence, working together to develop a role-playing game. One of the red flags for me last year was Maban posting the Shard and Lumen ab Verum stuff in the forum for the developers of Deus Ex 3 and telling them he had a lot of ideas for game development if any of them wanted to talk.

He even went on to discuss ATS at one point with another member, saying "Man I am staying away from ATS! Been there, done that."

I sincerely hope that the original "Maban" was really who he says, and that his thread got twisted by others, scaring him off.

I discussed the whole episode with a buddy of mine, who is an author and former Special Forces. He has held security clearances all the way up to SCI/Need to know kind of stuff.

He brought a new perspective that I didn't think of and it's simple, really.

He said there may, in fact, be groups that engage in the types of things Maban described but that they would never, ever post in a public, searchable forum.

Secondly, he described a method of developing role-playing games that dates back to the very early days of usenet. He laughed and said that it was actually pretty classically formulaic.

1 - Create a mysterious persona

2 - Post some obscure "secrets" in a public forum

3 - Wait for the trolls and the gullible to generate interest

4 - Feed the trolls

5 - The trolls and the users begin developing the complex storyline

6 - Let it cook for a while. Leave. Come back and stir things up again. Plant just enough "doubt" that those who don't believe attack the message and stir up interest.

7 - Let it stew as the storyline and the characters develop "themselves".

8 - When the thread has developed into a fully living plotline you have the entire foundation for a complex RPG game.

Now....

Whew...

Having said all that - there is a darker element at play here. I was admittedly having a great time tracking these guys down and it was a little addicting to see the pieces fall in place.

However, there are a couple of things I found that I wish I hadn't. Although I am 99% convinced this was a hoax there is a teeny bit of nagging doubt.

I am being purposely vague on this information because it gives me pause. Also I don't want to "out" the wrong person or give away personal info.

- The street address of the owner of the gaming server is a company that makes sophisticated communications equipment.

- That company is also a Defense Department contractor.

- The name of the guy who owns the server is also the name of a research scientist who works on some very sophisticated projects dealing with advanced energy production. I want to be very clear that I am NOT saying it's the same guy, however this guy works on the same technologies in real life that Maban talked about with us on this forum and by U2U


It's a mystery. Just when I think I am the "man" and have solved it, a new piece surfaces.

Like many of you I still get chills when I consider the (albeit distant) possibilities.

Hasn't the Armed Forces been using games as training tools for a few years now??
Considering the times we live in, it kind of makes sense that the technology of the gaming world has crossed over many lines.
I have a teenage son and he is constantly pointing out the incredible similarities between "simulation" and actual warfare scenarios and government espionage type activities.
So..do we have art imitating life or the other way around?
Hmmm...

On another note; the core of the original thread of the Shards is to be commended for
allowing this discourse to carry on. This has got to be an emotional and intellectual kick in the eye for all of the contributors. Kuddos to all !!

Peace...

I also have not heard from Cadbury in a week or so.

He hasn't read my U2U and he hasn't been on IM or email, which is strange because we talk almost every day.

At one point Kvasir was extremely upset at Cadbury and myself for having posted the information Maban gave us.

He said that Tenzin was under arrest and that Maban did not have authorization to disclose the info.

But then mysteriously a couple of days later he said Maban was alive and everything was happy happy joy joy again.

Originally posted by emsed1
Now....

Whew...

Having said all that - there is a darker element at play here. I was admittedly having a great time tracking these guys down and it was a little addicting to see the pieces fall in place.

However, there are a couple of things I found that I wish I hadn't. Although I am 99% convinced this was a hoax there is a teeny bit of nagging doubt.

I am being purposely vague on this information because it gives me pause. Also I don't want to "out" the wrong person or give away personal info.

- The street address of the owner of the gaming server is a company that makes sophisticated communications equipment.

- That company is also a Defense Department contractor.

- The name of the guy who owns the server is also the name of a research scientist who works on some very sophisticated projects dealing with advanced energy production. I want to be very clear that I am NOT saying it's the same guy, however this guy works on the same technologies in real life that Maban talked about with us on this forum and by U2U


It's a mystery. Just when I think I am the "man" and have solved it, a new piece surfaces.

Like many of you I still get chills when I consider the (albeit distant) possibilities.

It could all just add up that this personna had resources, information, technology and a love for gaming at his (I do assume male here but that could be up for debate also since it is the 'internet') disposal and used it for their own means.

Any of us could make an empassioned statement that would give people comfort - gurus do it all the time. It's always about the message - if any of it works, keep it and throw away the rest. Wherever we find gems of wisdom or truths that resonate, great! So what if the sayer made it up or was just repeating another's words? It's the feeling it gives us that counts.

Now having said that - we also tend to carry that emotion over to the messenger too which mucks it up every time. So the multi-faceted personna known as Shards of Illuminati was likely anything but what he claimed. Maybe he was trying to play Sage of the Age to his ego... and yes, managed to follow a script quite nicely...

I still have a couple of leads to track down, but I can cross one off my list.

The research guy who works on advanced energy projects was very polite and answered my off-the-wall questions. Unfortunately, he had no idea what I was talking about.

But, when one door closes another opens.

At first I think my tenacity was due to anger over the possibility of being misled. I think I am past that stage now and I just want to get through the layers of BS and try to find at least a core of truth.

No matter what else went on there is a very insightful person somewhere with some fascinating theories about the Illuminati and about man's nature and one day I'd like to meet the guy and listen to what he says without all the pretense.