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Remnants of the Illuminati

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posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by oconnection
Remember Maban said not to focus so much on the messenger but of the message. Now we can understand why he said this a bit better. But if what he said had some truth to it, that statement still rings true, doesn't it?



Of course it does. Truth or not. Maban, whatever else he was, was highly informed and when enthused about a topic, it was an absolute pleasure to read his posts. Plus, he is one of very, very few posters on this site that has truly challenged my own perception. I will greatly miss such a mind.

If it is fiction I assured myself that his intentions were good and that he genuinely had a need to communicate in this way, that in a way was a fascination in itself, at times that was my preferred scenario.

For me, those that can only concern themselves with debunking and labelling it all as a hoax are clearly missing the point and the message. But each to their own, to some people winning and being right is all important, others know that the real joy is in simply taking part and enjoying the ride, whether you fall on your arse at the end of it or not. This is especially true in this case, putting Maban to one side for a moment, when the company has been so agreeable.

Maban, I hope you are well and that you will eventually get in touch with those that you have previously spoken to through IM, and that they can let us know that you are really okay.

Take care and thank you for everything.







[edit on 20-5-2009 by KilgoreTrout]




posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by oconnection
 


Ah, right you are.. it is old.. I thought this was a new topic since it was on the recent threads or whatever.. nevertheless.. my first two arguments are still relevant.. and I do agree the American people would NEVER let that happen.. my first argument is sarcastic in nature.. an occupation of the United States would be neither swift nor easy.. if even possible.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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KilgoreTrout your posts have always been enjoyable, I'm glad your still willing to contribute. One of the first concerns I had when the Shards thread was closed was that many key contributors would loose interest. So far it seems that this drama hasn't caused key pupils to loose stomach.

Your wisdom and insight has helped me at times when I was doubting. I've said many a times that perhaps we should over look some concerns of credibility and look deep down inside and ask is this relevant, is there truth to such statements. You helped me overcome my dis-belief in many areas.

Do I think Maban and his many different characters are fiction, not entirely. So I still see an enormous amount of potential.

The first thing I did was download an offline copy of the entire Shards thread in case it disappeared some how. Call me a little paranoid but I always like to prepared. =)



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Ketzer22
reply to post by oconnection
 


Ah, right you are.. it is old.. I thought this was a new topic since it was on the recent threads or whatever.. nevertheless.. my first two arguments are still relevant.. and I do agree the American people would NEVER let that happen.. my first argument is sarcastic in nature.. an occupation of the United States would be neither swift nor easy.. if even possible.


I'm sorry I must of missed the sarcasm.


There are forces at work, without doubt in my mind that are at play that are in fact battling each other for control. The American people, though they may be blind, they will not let a foreign entity come in and rule over there lives. The American people are far too proud to let such non-sense happen. What concerns me, personally is the obvious subversive tactics being used. They know and most likely do not have the resources to do this by force so what's the alternative, deception.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by oconnection
 

Thank you for sharing that. So I'm not alone in having had that type of experience relative to being critical and negatively judgemental of Maban and his claims, very interesting.

I've often fancied myself an adept spiritual warrior of sorts, and so when I came up against this thing I figured using my own faith based "powers" I could take it on and defeat it, like I've been able to with certain other occurances in the past, but in this case, I could not do so. I was beat. It FORCED me into a state of submission and I had to in effect "tap out" and stop judging, and then and only then did it dissapate.

It was a powerful spiritual force, something which to fight against it, only empowered it, but it wasn't "evil", just frick'n powerful. Belief too is a powerful thing, but I've judged other things without that kind of blowback, and thsse were powers and principalities of far reaching proportions.

I was forced to conclude that he was legit. Strange though to see him posting under other names, and that U2U, that his writing style.

A very interesting ruse and hoax, and to evoke the kind of experiences we both had in relation to it.. makes ya wonder..



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by OmegaPoint
 


Look for my response via U2U, thanks!



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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I have a question on the ip thing.

Providing the account was banned from multiple activity from a singlar ip address, don't you think if these guy's had the technology spoken of as far as communications, and operating with stealth over the internet, that they would have had the skills to either bounce their tunnel through a few public servers in different countries or similar to obscure their ip, or maybe even have a few different ISP's through which they post?

Not hard to get a few different dial up accounts or even spoof your ip/mac address these day's.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by afaik
I have a question on the ip thing.

Providing the account was banned from multiple activity from a singlar ip address, don't you think if these guy's had the technology spoken of as far as communications, and operating with stealth over the internet, that they would have had the skills to either bounce their tunnel through a few public servers in different countries or similar to obscure their ip, or maybe even have a few different ISP's through which they post?

Not hard to get a few different dial up accounts or even spoof your ip/mac address these day's.


I think that the bigger question is why people cannot live and let live. All of those contributing regularly to the thread were more than well aware of the fact that it could in some people's eyes be judged a hoax. Most of us had suspicions that all three were Maban and I talked to others privately by U2U to that effect. It concerned us little and did not detract from the thread content in my opinion nor did it in anyway detract from my esteem for Maban. I admire his input in this thread whether he has created it, or whether he was all that he has claimed to be.

Given that Maban and Tenzin have not been online for some time, and to my knowledge none of them were ever online together, some considerable effort must have been placed in matching those IP addresses and thereby finding just cause to close the thread. It is not my place to question the T&Cs, but obviously someone was pretty driven towards having the thread closed, whether that was pushed through by staff or members I don't know, but it is a crying shame in my opinion and indicative of a culture that destroys that which it doesn't understand.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Hi Kilgoretrout
You may have missed my point.

My thinking is this.

If it is a hoax...
Do we think Maban would be loose enough to make a mistake that would raise a flag with the mods, considering crosschecking accounts and ip addresses is probably a regular job for the webmaster?

Given the level of intelligence displayed by Maban in the thread, I would probably think not. If this is so, how was he identified?

If he is using multiple accounts, how come it has taken this long to pick it up and how did he get away with it for this long?

If Mabam is/was/could be again, fair dinkum...
How do we reconcile his claims of the super stealthy internet technology used by the Shards to communicate and the fact that ATS mods have been able to identify him as the owner/creator of multiple accounts?

Something doesn't fit right for me, and I realise it is "about the message, not the messenger" but something doesn't make sense.

Also, it is not hard to match ip addresses.
The ATS webmaster would have access to the web server logs which contain the ip addresses of the computers where www requests originate.
Providing the ip and MAC addresses are not spoofed, all you need is notepad and a find tool. This can be correlated to the pages or url's or username/passwd's that were supplied by the client machine and bingo you can tell.

It gets harder when you don't have a MAC or ip addresses, then you need to have access to systems closer to the target, like his ISP's logs.
Even then, if a dynamic ip, dial up type account is used under a false name, he could dial in from any phone line and even if the ISP's records were available, all they would have is a location and a fake account.
(Provided he made sure his computer wasn't giving anything else away of course)





[edit on 20-5-2009 by afaik]



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by oconnection
The American people, though they may be blind, they will not let a foreign entity come in and rule over there lives. The American people are far too proud to let such non-sense happen.


They already have...
The foreign entity I observed has not annihilated America.
It does RULE LIFE there though. And it has already done so for 30-some years. Not the life of everybody, and it rules not only America.

Americans are among the most high-spirited and inventive crowds on the planet. However, there is a foreign power ruling now. You may want to shake it off.

It is an octopus-like structure with tentacles - big business that rooted out traditional American values and ways of life is no more American than a Chinese screw set sold with Saudi capital in a US hardware store...



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by afaik
 


My apologies, I did understand your point but kind of twisted it a little to make my own. I understand your concerns and to an extent I share them, but lacking your knowledge in the technical details I can't really comment. I certainly see what you mean though.

I didn't really get on very well with Maban, I like to think that there was an element of mutual respect, but largely we failed to communicate with each other, I liked him a lot though.

When he returned the last time he was different, something was clearly troubling him, he possessed an air of 'doom' about him, in retrospect I could be inclined to say he was on self-destruct. That was the impression I got from the limited amount of U2Us we exchanged at least, I know others had something more akin to friendship with him, they may have caught a different vibe. I may have read more into than I should.

My immediate concern now is that even if Maban, Tenzin and Kvasir are one and the same, even if the Shards are complete fiction, he still kept coming back for a reason. If as you say he didn't cover his tracks perhaps he wanted to get caught out or may be he was so desperate that he didn't think to be that devious. Or may be it is all true and they all operate out of the same house, office or whatever, all using the same masked IP. Who knows?

All that concerns me at this point is the nagging feeling that Maban may need help and doesn't know how to ask for it, or is suffering in anyway when he has friends who would willingly help him without judgement.

It is not that I don't understand the skepticism of others just that I am past caring about that myself, I've already been through those trials and tribulations and realised that it doesn't matter (to me). I am more than a touch angry that the thread has been closed and really do not see why it was when the members in question have been banned. But that said, I don't care whether Maban can no longer speak for the Illuminons, I just want to know that he is okay.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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The original Maban posts resonated with me as well. There was a hopeful sort of poetry to his message.

I discounted his love for video gaming and anime because everyone needs hobbies.

Later on when I confronted him with things I'd found on the internet (other forums where he posted the same Illuminon info) he told me that he had indeed lied about things but gave plausible excuses for the lies.

The thing that linked Maban, Tenzin and Kvasir together was that they all made the same typographical and grammatical errors in their posts. Specifically transposing the last two letters of "would" as "woudl". (Many of us have tried to do that on purpose and it's hard. Internet searches for similar errors lead back here).

The other error was using the word "whom" in the wrong context. When Maban did it, no big deal. Then when Tenzin did it during the whole "Maban died" episode it raised alarm bells.

When Kvasir did it several of us confronted him and he began making very nasty threats. Like... creepy "we're gonna get you" threats about Remnants and "NIA" tracking our activities, and how we were all standing in the way of an official investigation.

It got unnerving for a while.

Kvasir even described to me in gory detail the remains of Maban's body when I asked if he was dead. The next day the story changed to "missing but presumed dead" and "Tenzin is under house arrest", finally to "Hosanna! Maban lives!"

When he said Maban and Tenzin had been banned from ATS, I checked. That was a lie. Both were still members in good standing.

I went back to the gaming forums I had found Maban on last year. Most had not been logged onto, but I did find one board where the account was used this week (Friday). I followed that trail to find "Maban" on a gaming clan forum with all his player statistics, including his proficiency with all the "weapons" he claimed to use on this board.

That board is located on a server in Seattle. That server also hosts a conspiracy theory site with copies of Alex Jones and 9/11 Truther videos.

When I found the owners of the server and their usernames I checked back on ATS and voila! They were both members on here for a couple of years, but never posted.

My working theory is that it was a group of gamers in Seattle with varying levels of intelligence, working together to develop a role-playing game. One of the red flags for me last year was Maban posting the Shard and Lumen ab Verum stuff in the forum for the developers of Deus Ex 3 and telling them he had a lot of ideas for game development if any of them wanted to talk.

He even went on to discuss ATS at one point with another member, saying "Man I am staying away from ATS! Been there, done that."

I sincerely hope that the original "Maban" was really who he says, and that his thread got twisted by others, scaring him off.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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I discussed the whole episode with a buddy of mine, who is an author and former Special Forces. He has held security clearances all the way up to SCI/Need to know kind of stuff.

He brought a new perspective that I didn't think of and it's simple, really.

He said there may, in fact, be groups that engage in the types of things Maban described but that they would never, ever post in a public, searchable forum.

Secondly, he described a method of developing role-playing games that dates back to the very early days of usenet. He laughed and said that it was actually pretty classically formulaic.

1 - Create a mysterious persona

2 - Post some obscure "secrets" in a public forum

3 - Wait for the trolls and the gullible to generate interest

4 - Feed the trolls

5 - The trolls and the users begin developing the complex storyline

6 - Let it cook for a while. Leave. Come back and stir things up again. Plant just enough "doubt" that those who don't believe attack the message and stir up interest.

7 - Let it stew as the storyline and the characters develop "themselves".

8 - When the thread has developed into a fully living plotline you have the entire foundation for a complex RPG game.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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Now....

Whew...

Having said all that - there is a darker element at play here. I was admittedly having a great time tracking these guys down and it was a little addicting to see the pieces fall in place.

However, there are a couple of things I found that I wish I hadn't. Although I am 99% convinced this was a hoax there is a teeny bit of nagging doubt.

I am being purposely vague on this information because it gives me pause. Also I don't want to "out" the wrong person or give away personal info.

- The street address of the owner of the gaming server is a company that makes sophisticated communications equipment.

- That company is also a Defense Department contractor.

- The name of the guy who owns the server is also the name of a research scientist who works on some very sophisticated projects dealing with advanced energy production. I want to be very clear that I am NOT saying it's the same guy, however this guy works on the same technologies in real life that Maban talked about with us on this forum and by U2U


It's a mystery. Just when I think I am the "man" and have solved it, a new piece surfaces.

Like many of you I still get chills when I consider the (albeit distant) possibilities.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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Hasn't the Armed Forces been using games as training tools for a few years now??
Considering the times we live in, it kind of makes sense that the technology of the gaming world has crossed over many lines.
I have a teenage son and he is constantly pointing out the incredible similarities between "simulation" and actual warfare scenarios and government espionage type activities.
So..do we have art imitating life or the other way around?
Hmmm...

On another note; the core of the original thread of the Shards is to be commended for
allowing this discourse to carry on. This has got to be an emotional and intellectual kick in the eye for all of the contributors. Kuddos to all !!

Peace...



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Gyrochiral
 


When I pull myself away from all the rational and logical discourse I still find comfort in the original message.

The thought of peace and hope in our lifetime was very powerful. When the economy started tanking and people were losing jobs it was comforting to think of the "bigger picture" and take a little time out to help others.

I think no matter what that particular lesson will stick with me. There was something very genuine and earnest in the "early" Maban.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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I also have not heard from Cadbury in a week or so.

He hasn't read my U2U and he hasn't been on IM or email, which is strange because we talk almost every day.

At one point Kvasir was extremely upset at Cadbury and myself for having posted the information Maban gave us.

He said that Tenzin was under arrest and that Maban did not have authorization to disclose the info.

But then mysteriously a couple of days later he said Maban was alive and everything was happy happy joy joy again.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
Now....

Whew...

Having said all that - there is a darker element at play here. I was admittedly having a great time tracking these guys down and it was a little addicting to see the pieces fall in place.

However, there are a couple of things I found that I wish I hadn't. Although I am 99% convinced this was a hoax there is a teeny bit of nagging doubt.

I am being purposely vague on this information because it gives me pause. Also I don't want to "out" the wrong person or give away personal info.

- The street address of the owner of the gaming server is a company that makes sophisticated communications equipment.

- That company is also a Defense Department contractor.

- The name of the guy who owns the server is also the name of a research scientist who works on some very sophisticated projects dealing with advanced energy production. I want to be very clear that I am NOT saying it's the same guy, however this guy works on the same technologies in real life that Maban talked about with us on this forum and by U2U


It's a mystery. Just when I think I am the "man" and have solved it, a new piece surfaces.

Like many of you I still get chills when I consider the (albeit distant) possibilities.


It could all just add up that this personna had resources, information, technology and a love for gaming at his (I do assume male here but that could be up for debate also since it is the 'internet') disposal and used it for their own means.

Any of us could make an empassioned statement that would give people comfort - gurus do it all the time. It's always about the message - if any of it works, keep it and throw away the rest. Wherever we find gems of wisdom or truths that resonate, great! So what if the sayer made it up or was just repeating another's words? It's the feeling it gives us that counts.

Now having said that - we also tend to carry that emotion over to the messenger too which mucks it up every time. So the multi-faceted personna known as Shards of Illuminati was likely anything but what he claimed. Maybe he was trying to play Sage of the Age to his ego... and yes, managed to follow a script quite nicely...



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Interesting research Emsed1! You seem to have tools available that I've yet to obtain, or skills perhaps.

It would explain the references to many video games during the thread. I now understand your first post about your suspicion that we've been fooled by a group of gamers, perhaps. Too bad I could of had given Maban a serious smack down in Call of Duty 4 or Counter Strike.


So many companies have Defense Department contacts these days it doesn't necessarily mean they have government ties.

I'd be interested to see the other threads your speaking of before the posts are deleted. It seems I'll need to contact some friends to track down these individuals. Not to cause harm or confront such people but rather to answer the questions in my own mind.

If they are indeed a group of script kiddies / gamers it would be pretty comical but at the same time I'd be pretty pissed to say the least.

The admins seems pretty convinced that the three characters in question were using the same IP address, seems rather noobish to me. Perhaps they figured that they could get away with it long enough to have some fun off us?

Non the less I believe this person/s did have good intent in the sense they did want to get a message across and pretended to be someone they were not in order to gain some credibility.

There is still a question in my mind that this person/s is very skilled and informed in some areas so I haven't thrown Maban's story as far as his background completely.

I've known people who work for the government who use covers, it's common practice.

Indeed this rabbit hole keeps getting deeper. =)



- Omega



[edit on 20-5-2009 by oconnection]



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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I still have a couple of leads to track down, but I can cross one off my list.

The research guy who works on advanced energy projects was very polite and answered my off-the-wall questions. Unfortunately, he had no idea what I was talking about.

But, when one door closes another opens.

At first I think my tenacity was due to anger over the possibility of being misled. I think I am past that stage now and I just want to get through the layers of BS and try to find at least a core of truth.

No matter what else went on there is a very insightful person somewhere with some fascinating theories about the Illuminati and about man's nature and one day I'd like to meet the guy and listen to what he says without all the pretense.






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