Torture? I went through worse in basic training

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posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by bobbylove321
 


How about you show some proof to your nutty inside job theory? I agree witht he OP on this. Lets cry about how we "Torture" There POW and how e dont give them trials wah wah wah, cry cry cry. Shut that noise up. I remeber a Staff Segeant Matt Maupin who was brutally murder and torture with out any trial at all. And countless other who have been captured by AMERICAS ENEMY. You ass clowns sit here on your high horse oh America is so wrong for doing this and if you support these methods you are a horrible person. Try this on for sizes you rejects, in september of 2003, my patrol came across two children whos parents had been brutally tortured and then murder by these TERRIOST THUGS, all because they were seen as helping American troops clean trash up. WHEN EVER HAVE YOU SEEN AMERICAN TROOPS KILL PEOPLE FOR THIS TYPE OF change. Some of you people make me sick to my stomach ever time I hear this it makes me vomit. The world is not safe be glad that the boogyman( Allied soldiers and spooks) are prepared to go out there and kill the enemy all so you can sit here and bitch and complain about the we operate.

Now who is UN-American? If my logic and thinking make me UN-AMERICAN then screw this nation and when it burns to the ground and you wimps and sissys who cried foul will beg for men and women like me to come to your aid.




posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by platosallegory
I looked at these memos and these things are not torture. I went through worse during basic training in the Army.

I remember doing drills in pouring rain for about 15-20 minutes. We were running in place and doing push ups. We also went on a field exercise in a storm and had to sleep on the side of the road in wet leaves and grass, It was so wet me and my battle buddy had to sleep back to back to avoid the wet ground.

Putting someones head under water for 20-40 seconds is nothing. This only happened to 3 or 4 terrorist and it led to some helpful information that stopped attacks in LA and New York.

Waterboarding, being put in a room with bugs or putting you in a cold room is not torture.

I had much worse happen to me during basic training. If you gave me a choice to be waterborded 20-40 seconds a day for 8 weeks vs basic training, you could waterboard me.

Think about what the Navy Seals go through. Here's some info:

Another important part of basic conditioning is drown-proofing. In this evolution, trainees must learn to swim with both their hands and their feet bound. To pass drown-proofing, trainees enter a 9-foot-deep pool and complete the following steps with their hands and feet tied:

bob for 5 minutes
float for 5 minutes
swim 100 meters
bob for 2 minutes
do some forward and backward flips
swim to the bottom of the pool and retrieve an object with their teeth
return to the surface and bob five more times

Another evolution is surf torture, also called "cold water conditioning."

science.howstuffworks.com...

To call the things in this memo torture is a danger to our country. This is not torture in any way, shape or form.

If liberals don't want waterboarding, loud music, bugs in room or any discomfort for terrorist that have information about future plans that could save lives, how will they get any information?

Say pretty please, can you give us some info? This is silly and dangerous.


Do not slam liberals for opposing torture. And do not proclaim yourself a conservative. Neither Liberals nor Conservatives support Torture, Nazi's do, that would be the political party you subscribe too. The clowns on talk radio are not conservative, and they are not virtuous. To think that my grandfather fought in WWII and earned a bronze star killing people with your ideology, only to have that same ideology infect this country some 60 years later is disgusting to me.

You are not tough, you are not a conservative, and you do not have moral superiority. You are weak, You are a fascist, you are the person my grandfather's generation tried to wipe off the face of the earth forever, pity they failed.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by earthman4
 


I will take your offer. One during my training on active duty I was tortured by MY OWN MEN for the sake of being able to try and resist torture. All the stuff that came out in the MEMOs happened to me and 30 other soldiers like me on that particular week. two THE ENEMY HAS DONE FAR WORSE TO OUR POWS then we will ever do to theirs.

Answer this question you [SNIP] how many American POWS since this war has started have come back alive?

[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

Mod Edit: Removed insult

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Which Country were you Liberating , so many wars , so little time ?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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never mind.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by dodgygeeza]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Seany
 



Pick one since 2001 sir, I was there. And even some that are not mentioned in the media.



[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Whats more sad than anything, I think, is the attitude of "ive been treated worse, so torture is okay".

Whether it be the systematic torture/brainwashing of our armed forces, or the torture of these so called "terrorists" matters not. Torture is unconstitutional, and condoning it is disgusting.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Whats more sad than anything, I think, is the attitude of "ive been treated worse, so torture is okay".

Whether it be the systematic torture/brainwashing of our armed forces, or the torture of these so called "terrorists" matters not. Torture is unconstitutional, and condoning it is disgusting.


Show me in the constitution where it says waterboarding is illegal? Are enemy is far worse then you can imagine ok? They want nothing more then the destruction of the west and America and to turn this whole world into a back water muslim world. Now maybe us war fighters are not honorable creatures in your eyes but with out our might do you think the iman would give a damn about your rights at all?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Seany
 



Pick one since 2001 sir, I was there. And even some that are not mentioned in the media.



[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]


i read your original post about the event in 2003 , so I'll assume it was Iraq.

You said you came across 2 murdered locals who where killed for helping

the allies clean up trash.

As a soldier , I realize you follow orders so I put no wrong doing or blame

on any soldier.

But dont you think yhe Iraqies "may" be a little pissed off as their country,

their culture and about 1.5 million of them were killed FOR NO REASON?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Pyros
 


It is attitudea like this that cause these people to be "animals" in the first place. If they know that you are not going to treat them like humans, and don't think of them as humans, then why should they treat you like humans?

It is a vicious circle.

They want to live thier lives, and be left alone by us. We want to live our lives and be left alone by them. Yet we insist on going over there and, trying to force our way of life on them. It is funny, to read people on here, all up in arms about how the Muslims want to come over here and make us live under their laws, and accept their way of life. They go so far as to say that they would take up arms against this. Yet they have absolutely no problems with Western nations going over there and doing the exact same thing, with them doing the exact same thing that we, ourselves, would do.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that we are the only people entitled to live as we see fit, and that we are the only ones that will fight for our way of life. Just because the way that they live does not suit your ideas and style, does not make it wrong.

This whole us or them debate is getting tired and overplayed. Yeah, we get it, "they are bad people", according to you. But guess what? In the whole big scheme of things, your opinion is worth less than squat.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Seany
 


No doubt, But Saddam was a bad dude. He tortured more people then bush could even count to. He GASSED his own people for god sake. He even gassed our soldiers in the first war. Now granted we did not find the Large amounts of WMDs that King George says he had. But we did find some very small forgotten arty shells with Sarien Nerve Gas in it. And he also had the ability to create more if We turned a blind eye to his actions. We know he would have done it and would have used it again. Now please answer this question. What would have happened if god forbid Saddam was never toppled Sanctions lifted he recreated these WMDs and they were used on an American City?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Drop your heroic BS. You are not the only combat veteran on here, not even close. And based on the constitution, any power not specifically granted to the Federal Government, is denied to the federal government.

We were protecting no-one's freedom in Iraq, and you know it. Everyone there knows it. Only thing we have done is create a fresh batch of new terrorists that will one day crash airliners into new skyscrapers decades down the road. Thats all. And when that happens, everyone will wonder why, they'll say there is no reason, blah blah. That is until they figure out that the son of a man that was tortured in Iraq by the US grew up without a father, and blamed the United States for it, exacted his revenge the only way his religion allowed him too.

You get it? Some day you will.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by aravoth]

[edit on 23-4-2009 by aravoth]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Seany
 


No doubt, But Saddam was a bad dude. He tortured more people then bush could even count to. He GASSED his own people for god sake. He even gassed our soldiers in the first war. Now granted we did not find the Large amounts of WMDs that King George says he had. But we did find some very small forgotten arty shells with Sarien Nerve Gas in it. And he also had the ability to create more if We turned a blind eye to his actions. We know he would have done it and would have used it again. Now please answer this question. What would have happened if god forbid Saddam was never toppled Sanctions lifted he recreated these WMDs and they were used on an American City?


Dude, we sold him the gas...... we gave him the weapons..... He gassed -his own people with gas we gave him....



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by Rook1545
 


Yes except no where in any of the Americas or the west relgions or goverments have we sworn to destroy the infidels and, wipe nations off the map, and kill all unbelivers. Now if I am wrong please show it to me. (Minus Hitlers freaking rampage that was stopped, and those idiot crusaders)



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
What would have happened if god forbid Saddam was never toppled Sanctions lifted he recreated these WMDs and they were used on an American City?


It would have been more horrific than any one really knows.

By that same line of reasoning, I guess the troops are going to march into Israel, Korea and Georgia soon .



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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There is never any excuse for torture. What kind of nation had we become? I am not overly pleased with much of what Obama is doing but on this one, I am very pleased indeed.

It takes a pretty sick ticket to inflict torture on another human being, you certainly must be filled with hate and a good deal of sadism. Many of these people have probably been innocent as we will never really know just how many have been tortured. Sad thing, that sort of stuff (outside of the waterboarding) goes on daily in prisons all over this nation yet no one says a thing. I guess a nation that believes in torture also believes that going to prison and loosing your freedom isn't enough, you go to prison to endure punishment. Our whole society is getting warped.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Whats more sad than anything, I think, is the attitude of "ive been treated worse, so torture is okay".

Whether it be the systematic torture/brainwashing of our armed forces, or the torture of these so called "terrorists" matters not. Torture is unconstitutional, and condoning it is disgusting.


Show me in the constitution where it says waterboarding is illegal? Are enemy is far worse then you can imagine ok? They want nothing more then the destruction of the west and America and to turn this whole world into a back water muslim world. Now maybe us war fighters are not honorable creatures in your eyes but with out our might do you think the iman would give a damn about your rights at all?


Look at amendment 8 my friend:
www.usconstitution.net...

"Our" enemy is nothing of the sort. It is a made up foe, that cannot be defeated. Propaganda does not work on those of us that think logically, my friend.

It's all great and good that you are prejudice against muslims, but in case you havent noticed, we are doing the sam thing with democracy, capitolism and christianity. Why is our forcing our way of life on people okay, but someone recipricating is not?

This has nothing to do with how I feel about "war fighters". It has everything to do with the hypocritical view that we can force our views on others, but the minute anyone pushes back., they are a terrorist.

You are a victim of propaganda my friend.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Seany

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
What would have happened if god forbid Saddam was never toppled Sanctions lifted he recreated these WMDs and they were used on an American City?


It would have been more horrific than any one really knows.

By that same line of reasoning, I guess the troops are going to march into Israel, Korea and Georgia soon .


#1) The sanctions HURT THE IRAQI PEOPLE, not Saddam.

#2) Even if Iraq DID have nukes:
A)Why do we get them and they dont?
B)What makes you think they have the tech to get it here?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by aravoth
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Drop your heroic BS. You are not the only combat veteran on here, not even close. And based on the constitution, any power not specifically granted to the Federal Government, is denied to the federal government.

We were protecting no-one's freedom in Iraq, and you know it. Everyone there knows it. Only thing we have done is create a fresh batch of new terrorists that will one day crash airliners into new skyscrapers decades down the road. Thats all. And when that happens, everyone will wonder why, they'll say there is no reason, blah blah. That is until they figure out that the son of a man that was tortured in Iraq by the US grew up without a father, and blamed the United States for it, exacted his revenge the only way his religion allowed him too.

You get it? Some day you will.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by aravoth]

[edit on 23-4-2009 by aravoth]




Hero I am not and you clown I never called myself one, nor did I say i was the only combat vet here.

Perhaps your right on the fact that we were not protecting anyones freedom there. In fact I will give it to you that we were not. And yes we did give WMDs to Saddam In the 80s. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. (Iran) Maybe King George was trying to clean-up daddys little mess, will never know, but that is besides the fact Saddam was an Ass had to go.





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