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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet


CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT APPROVED THESE METHODS END OF DISCUSSION

I don't care if the president, congress, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, every governor, every legislator in the United States approved it. It is Illegal, torture is a power DENIED to the government, period. END OF DISCUSSION.

Your right and when the time comes I will. But when Our nation continues to elect these retards what are we supposed to do?

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free



This has always spoken volumes to me.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by ImzadiDax]

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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

MY Stance on these interrogation tactics is this (cause it does seem that I have not really clarified myself) These tactics are in fact not torture, If you were to use the definition of torture like some others here have then everyday life is such. To me torture is what we saw in Vietnam and Abu Garib(sp) And maybe its even possible that the tactics today did not help anything at all. If that is the case then we should look for other methods. But when all you can come up with is it is wrong and not have alternative ideas then don’t speak about it till you do. I hope I make since to some, but I guess to many I wont.

I can get where you are coming from on this, honestly I can. Compared to what used to happen this is pretty tame. The problem I have is that, while it pales in comparison to previous ideas of torture, it is still wrong.

My problem with it is this part:

But when all you can come up with is it is wrong and not have alternative ideas then don’t speak about it till you do.

That, to me, is just not right. It is throwing out the baby with the bath water. We either should have a) thought about what we were going to do with these guys before we dicided to keep them around, or, b)stuck to techniques that we use in other law enforcement situations that get results. Just because these people aren't Americans does not mean he have to result to early 20th century interogation tactics.

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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Okay I understand where you are coming from. I know most likely if I say to you they do far worse to our troops then we do to theres, you are prolly going to say take the high road. And maybe we should, or maybe we shouldnt. But if someone comes into my yard and hurts my family, I am going to do the same to them. Maybe thats barbaric, and maybe its not but to hell with it when the world can finally get together and think happy joy joy thoughts people like me can finally do the same. But untill that day comes I wont rest untill there all destroyed or I am either way.

That goes for all enemies both foreign and domestic.

For me it is not about the high road or not. It is about innocent or guilty. If it can be proven 100% without any doubt at all that these people are guilty of heinous crimes against others, then giver. I believe that once you have infringed on the rights of others, that you have forfieted your own rights.

The problem is that, like you pointed out, if someone harms your family, you will whatever it takes until your last breath that you will get revenge. If you think about it, alot of these people, that is all they are doing. Yeah they might be an enemy combatant, but WHY are they? Some people hate our way of life and want to do us harm. Then sure fill your boots with jumper cables and car batteries. But if they are just doing what we ourselves would do in thier position, can you really fault them. The more look at it, the less black and white it becomes and more shades of gray. People are like that, they like the black and white, it makes things easier. I bet it was easier to get all angry with what I was writing when it didn't seem like we had any ideas in common.