Torture? I went through worse in basic training, page 4
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reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:09 AM by Rook1545
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Rook1545


Yes except no where in any of the Americas or the west relgions or goverments have we sworn to destroy the infidels and, wipe nations off the map, and kill all unbelivers. Now if I am wrong please show it to me. (Minus Hitlers freaking rampage that was stopped, and those idiot crusaders)


I would like you to give me specific examples of a government in the Middle East that has declared a full blown jihad] against the West in recent times. I would also like to know, IF there is one, if they they did just for giggles or if they did in response to foriegn policy of a Western nation. I am guessing IF you can come up with an example, it would be because we could not leave well enough alone.


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:11 AM by cautiouslypessimistic
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Seany


No doubt, But Saddam was a bad dude. He tortured more people then bush could even count to.


SO is Kim Jong Il. So is Amadenijad (sp?). So are HUNDREDS of war tribe leaders in Africa. So tell me why Saddam was more important...



reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:12 AM by dooper
Plato, I'm glad you posted this. I've been watching this on the news and the sudden non-issue and I laugh at the premise that this is torture.

Let's get this out of the way. Under international law, a non-uniformed combatant has zero rights, and once he picks up a weapon instantly becomes a non-legal entity, and is due zero protections under any of the Geneva Conventions.

So, what does this allow you to do? Well, since picking up a weapon he is now a non-entity, every breath he takes is at your convenience. You are free to execute on the spot, or take him for questioning, use extreme psychological measures, get what you want, and then execute. All legally, all practiced over the past near-century by every major military.

Waterboarding is a psychological weapon. The ones you want to use this on are especially those who are from desert areas. After all, no blood, no foul. It will scare the crap out of you, but it is neither physically damaging, nor does it place your life at any risk.

The reason I appreciate your post is that in our training, we were waterboarded, had our faces shoved into mud, were dragged through that mud behind a jeep, had weapons fired off near our heads while blindfolded after being threatened, and was forced to blindly listen to some of the most horrendous sounds from an apparent interrogation going on next door.

Very realistic, and though it was conducted through training, it would scare the hell out of you. Which was the purpose.

If waterboarding is torture, then I've been tortured.

Yeah. Right.



[edit on 23-4-2009 by dooper]


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:25 AM by Nammu
reply to post by dooper


Let's get this out of the way. Under international law, a non-uniformed combatant has zero rights, and once he picks up a weapon instantly becomes a non-legal entity, and is due zero protections under any of the Geneva Conventions.


People in other countries can own guns legally as well you know. So Mr Ahmad who legally owns a gun and is not uniformed instantly becomes a combatant to be torturned in your eyes?






Seriously people! I can see a few folk on here that would more than likely gladly torture anyone that was labelled 'the enemy' without a second thought. Or does that only apply to those that are not American? Or those that aren't white? Or just Asian people?

The fact that some of you can say that American rights come before human rights is nothing short of disgusting and you don't deserve human rights if you think that's the case.


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:31 AM by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Whats more sad than anything, I think, is the attitude of "ive been treated worse, so torture is okay".

Whether it be the systematic torture/brainwashing of our armed forces, or the torture of these so called "terrorists" matters not. Torture is unconstitutional, and condoning it is disgusting.


Show me in the constitution where it says waterboarding is illegal? Are enemy is far worse then you can imagine ok? They want nothing more then the destruction of the west and America and to turn this whole world into a back water muslim world. Now maybe us war fighters are not honorable creatures in your eyes but with out our might do you think the iman would give a damn about your rights at all?


Look at amendment 8 my friend:


"Our" enemy is nothing of the sort. It is a made up foe, that cannot be defeated. Propaganda does not work on those of us that think logically, my friend.

It's all great and good that you are prejudice against muslims, but in case you havent noticed, we are doing the sam thing with democracy, capitolism and christianity. Why is our forcing our way of life on people okay, but someone recipricating is not?

This has nothing to do with how I feel about "war fighters". It has everything to do with the hypocritical view that we can force our views on others, but the minute anyone pushes back., they are a terrorist.

You are a victim of propaganda my friend.


Okay I do give you that the 8th admendment cleary states cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. But Congress new of these methods way before the media and obama and peliosi went pyscio about this. (www.foxnews.com...) See here. So now that Barry is in control and dems run the show it is now wrong. Who is being fed propaganda?



reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:37 AM by Rook1545
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Knew about it or not does not excuse the fact that is wrong. Why does it always have to come down to a Democrat vs Republican or Liberal vs Conservative thing?


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:40 AM by cautiouslypessimistic
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


I'm calling BS. People that understand our constitution have been opposed to torture for longer than you or I have been alive.

I am not going to get pulled into you repub/dem garbage that you are trying to make this about, as it has nothing to do with it. ALL INVOLVED ARE GUILTY. Party affiliation matters not. Thats all I will say on that subject, so dont even try and pull me nto it again.

Bottom line, torture is unconstitutional. You just admitted it. What else is there to argue?

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:42 AM by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Knew about it or not does not excuse the fact that is wrong. Why does it always have to come down to a Democrat vs Republican or Liberal vs Conservative thing?


CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT APPROVED THESE METHODS END OF DISCUSSION

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:45 AM by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Rook1545


okay Saudi Arabia indirectly/directly gives money to hamas hezbollah and some of the princes fund these teriost training camps. IRAN FUNDS ALL terriost groups and provides them with training. This does not count the many other goverments who give terriosts safe haven.

Maybe if your head was out of your ass and you would see these things but then again what do I know? Cause you are so right.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:47 AM by Rook1545
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Knew about it or not does not excuse the fact that is wrong. Why does it always have to come down to a Democrat vs Republican or Liberal vs Conservative thing?


CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT APPROVED THESE METHODS END OF DISCUSSION


Now you just make no sense at all. Yes they knew about it...what is your point? Mine was that it doesn't matter if they knew or not, it is wrong. While there is somethign gettign done about it now, even though it is too late, something is still being done about it.


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:48 AM by cautiouslypessimistic
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Knew about it or not does not excuse the fact that is wrong. Why does it always have to come down to a Democrat vs Republican or Liberal vs Conservative thing?


CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT APPROVED THESE METHODS END OF DISCUSSION


Neither congress or the president has the right to circumvent the constitution. As someone sworn to protect the constitution against enemies foreig and domestic, dont you have a problem with the fact that, by your own admission, the president and congress where acting outside of the constitution?

Shouldnt you be "protecting us" from demestic enemies of the constitution, if that's the case?


reply posted on 23-4-2009 @ 11:50 AM by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by Rook1545
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Knew about it or not does not excuse the fact that is wrong. Why does it always have to come down to a Democrat vs Republican or Liberal vs Conservative thing?


CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT APPROVED THESE METHODS END OF DISCUSSION


I am sorry for the confusion after re reading I should have clarified things. If we are going to proscute the lawyers and ex King George admin then the Congress men/women who knew these methods were going on need to be proscuted to. They wont though do to the fact that some powerful dems and repubs where in on those hearing. you honestly think there going to proscute george?

Now you just make no sense at all. Yes they knew about it...what is your point? Mine was that it doesn't matter if they knew or not, it is wrong. While there is somethign gettign done about it now, even though it is too late, something is still being done about it.

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