Torture? I went through worse in basic training

reply to post by jfj123


I feel badly for you. Your best is you've known and talked to some vets.

Veterinarians aren't what we're talking about here, although I'm sure you got a lot of their input. Probably learned everything you know.

Hey. You didn't take your turn in the line - your problem. Your claim that you'd be able to defend you and yours is highly questionable. Because you can't discern truth from your video games. Which you apparently set a lot of store by, and apparently, got all your experience from. What was it you had - an X-Box? You mean like that little thing I got my for my step-grandson last year?

Your credentials are indeed impressive.

Real life isn't a video game.

You claim to know something about something you know little about, and then you have to resort to pure name-calling and petty sarcasm to cover your ignorance.

Go ahead and respond.

I won't be answering. I can't believe the kids on ATS now days.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by jfj123

 

I feel badly for you. Your best is you've known and talked to some vets.

Maybe one day you will too

Veterinarians aren't what we're talking about here, although I'm sure you got a lot of their input. Probably learned everything you know.

wow. looks like somebody got the best of the best ! I bet you're the top guy at the burger station
Vets is short for veterans. Veterans are soldiers who've seen action...typically. Now you know something

Hey. You didn't take your turn in the line - your problem. Your claim that you'd be able to defend you and yours is highly questionable.

ah is this where you bait me to get me angry ? Kinda sad really.

Let's just say that I'm not concerned with my abilities to defend anyone I need to defend And you shouldn't either. Believe me or not, I don't care. I find your posts amusing so you can just forget about trying to get me angry mmm kay ???

Because you can't discern truth from your video games.

Certainly I can.
What I've posted is truthful.
Where you get your experience is from video games

Which you apparently set a lot of store by, and apparently, got all your experience from.

Actually no but video games are fun. Obviously you like the war games the best

What was it you had - an X-Box?

Actually an Xbox 360. Not as big into war games as you are though

You mean like that little thing I got my for my step-grandson last year?

Oh that's just too easy

Your credentials are indeed impressive.

I haven't given you my credentials. Which leads me to the point that you haven't given us yours. Seems kinda odd how you're asking me for mine when you haven't given yours....well whatever rambo

Real life isn't a video game.

You say it, but you don't believe it.

You claim to know something about something you know little about,

Actually my opinion is based on factual information which is what I posted. By you claiming I know little, you also claim that all those people including those who actually performed the water boarding, knows little. And of course you know more then all those people right? Here you go with your silly chest thumping again Well if it makes you feel more like a man, go ahead.

and then you have to resort to pure name-calling and petty sarcasm to cover your ignorance.

uh my friend, had you shown me respect, I would show you respect. Don't blame me for responding to your insults. If you can't take it, best chest yourself at the door.

Go ahead and respond.

OK

I won't be answering.

Excellent. Maybe spend some time in quiet reflection.

I can't believe the kids on ATS now days.

Why? Surprised they let you on? I don't think they have a minimum age so you don't need to worry.

And after all this,
I've made an offer to post a lot more factual information. You've ignored that request as you don't want to see factual information.

I've asked you to post factual information and you never have.

It's obvious you have anger management issues and racial hatred. I genuinely hope you grow out of this.
I'll pray for you

[edit on 27-4-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by dooper

After a very prosperous day while attached to a line unit, I was asked to report to the Captain, who asked if he could claim three or four of my kills.

And you were complicit in this fraud, which you are admitting to participating in on ATS?

I doubt it. You haven't even posted any links to back up your prior claims.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by dooper

After a very prosperous day while attached to a line unit, I was asked to report to the Captain, who asked if he could claim three or four of my kills.

And you were complicit in this fraud, which you are admitting to participating in on ATS?

I doubt it. You haven't even posted any links to back up your prior claims.

A couple question on what you have said.

In what you call "fraud" who was the victim, who suffered, what was their loss?

Are you suggesting someone needs to be punished???

Do you consider yourself an arbitrator of right and wrong?



Mike







[edit on 28-4-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by GypsK
reply to post by platosallegory

 

You kinda pull it out of it's context there

If someone would do those torture techniques to you, then you would probably not experience it as such a bad thing because you have trained for it.
Isn't one of the reasons they train military this way simply so that they won't give away information to quickly when being REALLY captured and TORTURED by the enemy? You are trained, we expect of you to keep our secrets (so to speak)

If someone would do these things to me, a woman that has no military training at all, I would panic and probably tell them everything they want to hear within minutes.
That's why they call it "torture".

And thats why it works its meant to scare you.
as far as torture i will differentiate there is physical torture (bodily injury) very in effective either get false info or a determined prisoner. However play off there fears and they will talk (psychological torture). If there scared of drowning use water scared of bugs snakes whatever put a gardener snake in there cell there is no possibility for injury but if there scared of snakes they'll talk.

Interrogations are hard you have to find a way in so to speak cops been doing it for decades good cop bad cop. If a person has no compulsion to tell you anything trust me they wont. So to say we should never try to interrogate is silly the other alternative is drugs though they have more severe side effects namely death to some individuals by heart attack.

Oh and by the way you dont get to places like Gitmo without being interrogated and evaluated for information. Some of the people that were released from gitmo were right back out there trying to kill soldiers again i personally know of 2 times were that was the case.People are not just dragged off the street and called an enemy combatant 90% of the time they were shooting at us. And if someone has to be scared in order to get them to tell about plots to kill my family and friends i am OK with that. These people are not targetting the military they know better there trying to kill civilians while there shopping taking kids to soccer practice,watching a movie in short any where they can create mass hysteria. In hopes that they can scare you into changing government policies and reach there goals sadly sometimes i think it works.

reply to post by Exuberant1

Another genius.

Officers made up the reports. If he was able to get another officer to put him in for a Silver Star, then fine. They probably reciprocated, as that was common enough among officers, who were career oriented, and wanted to rack up some additional promotion points.

I didn't claim a damned thing. I never claimed any kills. That was a pansie's game.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by dooper

After a very prosperous day while attached to a line unit, I was asked to report to the Captain, who asked if he could claim three or four of my kills.

And you were complicit in this fraud, which you are admitting to participating in on ATS?

I doubt it. You haven't even posted any links to back up your prior claims.

beleive it or not but some things in the real word dont have url's to prove it happened..I can attribute to what dooper is saying..It happens more than you think..

Agree with the OP. When I heard about what they did I couldn't help but laugh... Torture? Please! I can stay underwater for much longer than 20-40 secs. You want torture? Ok, lets hook up a pair of jumper cables to a car battery, then hook up the other end of the jumper cables to the terrorist's nipples and see how high they can jump from the shock.

Honestly, even in medieval times during the spanish inquisition they had FAR worse torture techniques than what is being implemented. How about attaching a metallic crotch cup with spikes on your "junk" to stop you from thinking dirty thoughts since it was considered "sinful" to get a stiffy? I believe they called it the metallic peach or something like that

Whichever the case may be. There are far worse things that can legitimately be called torture. What's next? The terrorists are going to complain because they might be sharing their cell with someone of another religion? Honestly you people defending these jerks are becoming soft and squishy, nothing but a nation being led by cowards.


[edit on 28-4-2009 by Question]

Originally posted by dragonridr

These people are not targetting the military they know better there trying to kill civilians while there shopping taking kids to soccer practice,watching a movie in short any where they can create mass hysteria. In hopes that they can scare you into changing government policies and reach there goals sadly sometimes i think it works.

Thanks for drawing attention to this.

Yes, there are people who willfully try to kill as many innocent people as they can. Many surviving victims end up suffering loss of limbs, internal damage, etc that leaves them in pain for the rest of their lives.

And all to intimidate a population and it's government.

Do we see the same outrage and indignation leveled at these people who contravene humanitarian and international laws?

Does it diminish their places of origin in the eyes of the world? Does it nullify the constitutions or ethics codes in their home countries?


Mike

I think that everyone needs to step back and calm down a little before someone gets warned or worse..

The Topic Is:::
"Torture? I went through worse in basic training"

Please post On Topic or your post will be removed and you may be warned.

Thank you

Semper

Originally posted by on_yur_6
reply to post by platosallegory

 

I agree, this whole thing is a joke and another way for our communist president to undermine our country. I'm so tired of all of this whining about torture. You want to know what torture is like? Talk to a WW2 vet. My grandfather hated the Japanese until the day he died. He just couldn't get it out of his head.

Well Obama's unintended consequence is that our soldiers will now kill every terrorist they come in contact with instead of capturing them. All of them know that the current administration will do nothing but release the person so they have to capture them again.

Stop your crying and whining and get a spine about torture. If the life of one of your loved ones depended upon getting information through "so called" torture or good ol' fashioned torture you would have no problem with it. If you did, you are a coward and should go hide in a corner and suck your thumb. Let real men and women make the important decisions for you.

Drop and give me 50 you spineless whimps!

6 out.

Amen to you sir. Completely agree, if somebody was trying to break into my home and terrorize my family, they'd be facing much harsher techniques than the CIA would ever be allowed to do. I have plenty of swords and knives, know how to use them and use them well, and trust me, would have no qualms with cutting someone's genitals and giving them a taste of a living hell before turning them to the police (if they manage to survive that long)

Originally posted by Question

I have plenty of swords and knives, know how to use them and use them well, and trust me, would have no qualms with cutting someone's genitals and giving them a taste of a living hell before turning them to the police (if they manage to survive that long)

Such acts are criminal and you would risk prosecution for committing them.

Why do you boast about your theoretical potential to inflict torture?

Here is an article about interrogations it might enlighten some people here to understand who were dealing with.

How to Interrogate Terrorists Heather Mac Donald
It didn’t take long for interrogators in the war on terror to realize that their part was not going according to script. Pentagon doctrine, honed over decades of cold-war planning, held that 95 percent of prisoners would break upon straightforward questioning. Interrogators in Afghanistan, and later in Cuba and Iraq, found just the opposite: virtually none of the terror detainees was giving up information—not in response to direct questioning, and not in response to army-approved psychological gambits for prisoners of war.

Army doctrine gives interrogators 16 “approaches” to induce prisoners of war to divulge critical information. Sporting names like “Pride and Ego Down” and “Fear Up Harsh,” these approaches aim to exploit a detainee’s self-love, allegiance to or resentment of comrades, or sense of futility. Applied in the right combination, they will work on nearly everyone, the intelligence soldiers had learned in their training.
But the Kandahar prisoners were not playing by the army rule book. They divulged nothing. “Prisoners overcame the [traditional] model almost effortlessly,” writes Chris Mackey in The Interrogators, his gripping account of his interrogation service in Afghanistan. The prisoners confounded their captors “not with clever cover stories but with simple refusal to cooperate. They offered lame stories, pretended not to remember even the most basic of details, and then waited for consequences that never really came.”

Some of the al-Qaida fighters had received resistance training, which taught that Americans were strictly limited in how they could question prisoners. Failure to cooperate, the al-Qaida manuals revealed, carried no penalties and certainly no risk of torture—a sign, gloated the manuals, of American weakness. Even if a prisoner had not previously studied American detention policies before arriving at Kandahar, he soon figured them out. “It became very clear very early on to the detainees that the Americans were just going to have them sit there,” recalls interrogator Joe Martin (a pseudonym). “They realized: ‘The Americans will give us our Holy Book, they’ll draw lines on the floor showing us where to pray, we’ll get three meals a day with fresh fruit, do Jazzercise with the guards, . . . we can wait them out.’ ”

And this is why we changed are tactics when dealing with terrorism the old techniques were a joke and didn't work. If you don't give a person a reason to tell you i can guarantee they wont!

www.city-journal.org...

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Question

I have plenty of swords and knives, know how to use them and use them well, and trust me, would have no qualms with cutting someone's genitals and giving them a taste of a living hell before turning them to the police (if they manage to survive that long)

Such acts are criminal and you would risk prosecution for committing them.

Why do you boast about your theoretical potential to inflict torture?

whats wrong with protecting your family?Stop trolling will ya?

Originally posted by Redpillblues
whats wrong with protecting your family?

Once the perpetrator is subdued and the threat removed, the Law specifically states that you may not inflict unnecessary punishment such as "cutting someone's genitals and giving them a taste of a living hell before turning them to the police".

*I'm against torture, even the torture of burglars. If one tortures a subdued burglar, one should expect to go to jail for it. The same applies to those who torture subdued/captured mujahideen.

Edit: Why not just shoot the burglar dead; as is your right?

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by dragonridr
Here is an article about interrogations it might enlighten some people here to understand who were dealing with.

Some of the al-Qaida fighters had received resistance training, which taught that Americans were strictly limited in how they could question prisoners. Failure to cooperate, the al-Qaida manuals revealed, carried no penalties and certainly no risk of torture—a sign, gloated the manuals, of American weakness. Even if a prisoner had not previously studied American detention policies before arriving at Kandahar, he soon figured them out. “It became very clear very early on to the detainees that the Americans were just going to have them sit there,” recalls interrogator Joe Martin (a pseudonym). “They realized: ‘The Americans will give us our Holy Book, they’ll draw lines on the floor showing us where to pray, we’ll get three meals a day with fresh fruit, do Jazzercise with the guards, . . . we can wait them out.’ ”

And this is why we changed are tactics when dealing with terrorism the old techniques were a joke and didn't work. If you don't give a person a reason to tell you i can guarantee they wont!

This is pretty interesting. All the tumblers fall into place. The US had the rep for being complacent and soft. It had to shake it.

Arguably the invasion of Iraq was in the same vein. Saddam had a decade to suss out how far the Americans were prepared to go. They whimped out in taking him out in 1991. After that all he got were sanctions he could easily bypass, a few planes flying over menacingly, and the proverbial rap on the knuckles.

Not to put too much of a John Wayne spin on it, but the US had to show him and by inference the other bad guys in the region that they were deadly serious. Deadly.

But again despite ineptitude after the taking over of Iraq, they whimped out. As Hamas had found with Israel, Americans were never went quite all the way, afraid of being accused of inhumane methods.

This emboldened the radical Muslim world enormously. They knew there were lines the US military wouldn't cross.

Maybe if from the very beginning the US had truly put the fear of God into their enemies, there wouldn't have been the ongoing killings we are still seeing today.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael
... the US had to show him and by inference the other bad guys in the region that they were deadly serious. Deadly.

It worked.

They scared North Korea into building The Atom Bomb - to boost their deterrence capability.

Kim Jong Il saw what happened to countries who lack a nuclear deterrent, and then expedited the development his own countries deterrent.

reply to post by Exuberant1


if that what it involves keeping my family safe so be it...If someone is breaking into your home they are infact willing to be possibly shot at..
But i remember you from the other post..Your the one that when asked if you torture someone to protect a loved one,answered yeah,but did a quick edit to add a stipulation..

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Redpillblues]

reply to post by Redpillblues


I make use of the edit function to edit my posts to say what they should have originally - as all who make use of the edit function do.

Grammar, spelling, and syntax all should be corrected when errors are noticed.

Hi,

To the guys that were bickering about computer games ...

I just want to add it is true that computer games (such as SOCOM, Clancy games etc) do use genuine military tactics and there is a reason for this.

Kids who have played all of these games have been:

a) desensitised for the battlefield so that when they do see blood and guts they are less likely to puke and thus become inactive
b) when they get to basic training they have a pretty damn good idea of how things work
c) they know which guns are which and to which nations/factions they belong

The list is pretty much endless, but my unit has told me that this is how it is played.

Cheers

edit: remove extra bracket

[edit on 28-4-2009 by george_gaz]