It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Torture? I went through worse in basic training

page: 21
14
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:03 PM
link   
reply to post by jfj123
 


Yep, I guess I missed it. I thought this was about waterboarding being torture and how awful America is for stooping so low. No matter how many lives it saved.

Here the deal. When all of this rotten violent stuff finally comes too you, just keep talking, I'm sure they'll be very attentive.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by miketwosix]




posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:06 PM
link   
Jesus. This person (op) whining about "what i did in basic training was worse than their torture" Just shows what a wimp he is. Basic training was a cakewalk, and any person who thinks it was torturous obviously has had little other hardship in life....and i went through long before all the "time out card" garbage.

Further, i have read reports other than those posted in the news, and many prisoners talk of repeated gang rapes and beatings....but then, thats also how we treat our regular prisoners in america, so that must not be torture either. Perhaps the OP underwent some of this in HIS bootcamp experience. We NEVER underwent any serious sleep deprivation in bootcamp, and supposedly that is one of the most horrible torture methods available, leading to insanity, and is also one that is regularly used.

Remember, as the earlier poster pointed out that his grandfather, tortured in WWII hated the japanese till the day he died, so will all those we torture hate america and americans till the day they die. So many people fixate so much on the means, that they forget they are after results, and this is shown by the fact that so many overlook the statistics that since we invaded the middle east, people have flocked to al queda, the complete opposite of our supposed "goal".



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:10 PM
link   
reply to post by miketwosix
 


let's be clear about one thing - you have no problem calling other people's morals or ethics or beliefs into question

lesson learned?


I don't live in your world of hearts and flowers.


or not?

you don't know any more about me than you believe I know about you


I see bad people do bad things. I see many of them get away with it.


and you think that we naive, candy-assed, weak, not-to-bright "others" who are so different from you - we just don't get this?

all we're thinking about is hearts and flowers then - because we just don't get how hard life really is?

and you, with your unique and incredibly accurate take on things will save us from ourselves I suppose? With more violence and crimes against humanity?

not if I can help it


sadly, I have a niece who would beg to differ with you. These things DO happen. I noticed you did'nt say what you would prefer I do if such a situation were to happen to you and yours.


oh no you don't - don't even

I called you out on that because it has nothing to do with anything - and I am not playing

when you say things like that - do you even stop to think about what you're actually saying - or who you're saying it to?

so - stick to the subject - torture good/torture bad - torture - not as bad as some guys trip through basic?

what you got?



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:26 PM
link   
This whole thing on torture is getting a bit strung out.

The thing about torture. It's both good and bad.

If you're the one getting it - it's bad.

If you're the one doing it - it's good.

Anyone who claims that torture doesn't get to the truth, isn't doing it right!

There's a right way, and a wrong way.

Do it right, you get your info.

Do it wrong, and he's . . . well, dead.

The other guy who just watched the first guy get dead?

He'll sing like a bird.

If you do it right.

Professionalism in all things.



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


I see what you're saying now. It's all become so clear. I can't believe I've been so blind all this time. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I bow to your superior intellect. If you can find it in your heart, I beg you, please forgive me for being such a foolish old man. I truly did think that a little water up ones nose was worth saving human lives. How could I have been so misguided.

Here's to slapping bad guys with wet mittens! Well, not wet mittens, dry ones. And not wool ones either. They can get scratchy. Cotton would be better. Maybe silk?

Maybe the next time the US is threatened by a so called possible not nice person that wants to kill all Americans and fly planes into buildings and cut our heads off we can have the gov't refer them to you. Would that be considered torture?

Oh, and that naive, candy assed, weak, not bright "others" came from you, not me. Maybe you......naw, could'nt be. I apologise again for even thinking such a thing.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by miketwosix]

[edit on 25-4-2009 by miketwosix]



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:43 PM
link   
reply to post by miketwosix
 




I see what you're saying now. It's all become so clear. I can't believe I've been so blind all this time. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I bow to your superior intellect. If you can find it in your heart, I beg you, please forgive me for being such a foolish old man....


did that make you feel better?

you don't get off the hook that easy

you went out of your way to make other people feel bad - too rough for you then?



...I truly did think that a little water up ones nose was worth saving human lives...


I think it's wrong



Maybe the next time the US is threatened by a so called possible not nice person that wants to kill all Americans and fly planes into buildings and cut our heads off we can have the gov't refer them to you. Would that be considered torture?


and you're still not dealing with the real topic

snottiness and sarcasm aside - please explain how torture prevents any of that

but even answering that isn't dealing with the real question - would you just rather not deal with it then?



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 01:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
[more

Did I make you feel bad? I'm sorry again!

Water up ones nose is wrong? Ok.

Real topic? Basic training worse than torture? That depends. I found basic training to be fun. One guy killed himself because he cound'nt take it. Hung himself.

US Navy Seal training? Here's the deal. If you are suggesting that instead of waterboarding a suspected terrorist we put them through US Navy Seal training then I think we have reached a fair compromise. Deal? Shake hands and make up?



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 02:09 PM
link   
reply to post by miketwosix
 


:-)


Did I make you feel bad? I'm sorry again!


I said you tried


Water up ones nose is wrong? Ok.


now you're not even trying :-)


Real topic? Basic training worse than torture? That depends. I found basic training to be fun. One guy killed himself because he cound'nt take it. Hung himself. US Navy Seal training? Here's the deal. If you are suggesting that instead of waterboarding a suspected terrorist we put them through US Navy Seal training then I think we have reached a fair compromise.


I would never suggest that there was anything about basic training that is easy - it sounds brutal


Deal? Shake hands and make up?


Deal - absolutely

:-)

I can't think about this anymore today anyhow - you know how we liberals are - we just hate to fight



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 04:07 PM
link   
O.o Basic training wasn't that bad. It certainly didn't feel like torture to me. Maybe you're a wimp?

Why is waterboarding torture? Because you have no control over it. You feel like you are going to die every second. You really feel like you are about to drown, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

People who have been subjected to waterboarding, have had psychological issues for the rest of their lives. Many are unable to shower, or even be out in the rain.

Basic training is nothing like this torture, you have no idea, do you.



posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 11:13 PM
link   




I stopped reading your post. Are you one of the people who wrote those bogus "legal: memo "things"? Seriously, people CHOOSE to join military, and choose to sign over their bodies to be govt property. The GENEVA CONVENTIONS which the U.S. signed, along with other countries/govts, explicity defines torture. Human beings are being forced into horrible situations. Tossed into walls? Attacked by dogs; probably never happened to you and I DOUBT you ever went to basic training. Some little REPUGLICAN sitting in your mom's basement trying to sound intelligent. Grow up, I have gone through basic training, and one of the first things is; "Don't follow blindly, there are rules to war that is what makes the U.S. different from other countries...we don't torture." Apparently, idiots missed those lectures or were too power hungry to have a backbone. If you are ordered to rape, would you? Anyone who thinks torture is OKAY for any reason is obviously insane.

MOREOVER; TORTURE PROVIDED NO USEFUL INFORMATION as per those who once were forced to try it, and per those who did it after they left, per the FBI, per YEARS of research. It was a game. If waterboarded over 180 times, I'd say that is brainwashing. "You did 911, you did 911, you understand?" Everyone knows 911 was made up, inside job. Israel makes U.S. foreign policy and you are a FOOL if you try to justify anything involving torture. Just wait, some day it will be you or I, only I know I stood for what is right before they put the boots on me and the guns were pointed at me.



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 03:28 AM
link   
Good news for all, those waterboarded are still alive and well. Maybe some bad dreams, but that could be indigestion too.

Death and dismemberment are worse.

Rules and laws shouldn't be broken. Sometimes they are.

The US is far from the only place this happens.

One can only try to do better in the future and learn from past mistakes.

Why are there no threads on ATS about torture from other countries.

Finding fault with the US government seems to be some kind of obsessive driving force for so many.

I wonder what that really means.



Mike



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 03:56 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 04:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by dooper
Anyone who claims that torture doesn't get to the truth, isn't doing it right!

There's a right way, and a wrong way.

Do it right, you get your info.

Do it wrong, and he's . . . well, dead.


Do it at all, and you're a War Criminal....

Do it to the wrong person, you're a stupid War Criminal...



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 04:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by gusan
One day maybe you americans will aunderstand that your country is the "bad guy" in all the wars you ever started. Then, maybe people like OP will understand he has been fooled to be this way, he became the monster..

I also imagined all this thread in an arab forum..like "from the other side" now THAT would be terrible yes?!
OP, you are the agressor, you are the murderer, you are the monster...and all that manufactured by maiking you fear a ghost that does not exist...still YOU are responsable for what you have become and you will answer to it one way or the other.
I am not religious. I just hope that whats goes a
around comes around..



Yeah, for sure, Americans are the murderers, the monsters, maybe Satan incarnate bringing all Hell to Earth.

Anything else?

Maybe you should consider closing your computer for a while and read some history. Go back into the recent past and come right up to right up to the present.

Check out the head count for unnecessary deaths through wars, mass exterminations, genocide in the 20th Century. Find out who started the wars
and who stopped them.

The rabid dog American hatred I see so much of around here is shocking.

Why not unleash some of your hatred on the people wantonly mass murders of their own people and neighbouring counties on the other side of the world, for starters.

It would be great if another World War gets going and the US decides to sit it out. They wouldn't want to be labeled murderers and aggressors by all those people criticizing them on the Internet, would they?

We'd then we'd find out what a world without bad ol' America interfering with all those peace loving nations would be like.


Mike



[edit on 26-4-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 04:52 AM
link   
reply to post by mmiichael
 


I agree.

Torture is a Crime against Humanity, and it does not much matter which country the torturer comes from - only that they be arrested and prosecuted.

The torturers country of origin is not on trial, per se. For Example; Spain has been very specific is deciding who they would prosecute.
However the American government has been 'on trial' in various civil suits brought against them - but that is secondary to criminal prosecution, which should take priority.

All those who have been involved in torture (euphemised as 'enhanced interrogation') should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Should America refuse to prosecute all those involved, the onus falls to other nations, some of which have already taking preparatory action for the prosecution of several individuals from the Bush administration... and that's just for the torture.

When it comes to the Initiating of Wars Of Aggression and illegal attacks in nations against which Congress has not issued a Declaration of War - this may result in the United States proper actually being prosecuted and made to pay war reparations. We'll have to see how things work out. They did kill over 1 million Iraqis... Britain helped too.


Have you ever watch the film called 'the Trial of Tony Blair'?

It is an accurate depiction of how the prosecutions against Tony Blair for War crimes will occur - I have located the film on youtube, although I believe google video also hosts it:



[edit on 26-4-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 12:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Exuberant1
 

I give up. You have me cold. I'm a war criminal by your definition. By your definition, I'm a bad person. I even ignored international boundaries and continued to chase my enemies to what they thought was a sanctuary. They had just left a village and killed most there in a slaughter. We caught up, surprised them, and engaged in our own . . . retribution.

Yes, I've personally captured some armed enemy prisoners, three to be specific, and I don't recall offering them a cigarette and cold beer, and I didn't bother to ask of their wives and children. I honestly didn't give a damn.

If I have a fault, it's that I have a very task-oriented persona. I just want to get the job done. If I find myself the anvil, I'm patient. If I find myself the hammer, I strike. Hard.

I just wanted to find out their unit designation, and believe me, I got truthful information.

Bad person I am, I got the job done.

One thing that's really odd.

I still sleep real good.



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 12:52 PM
link   
A terrorist would be lucky to be captured by the US Military instead of me.

Give me some quality time with Osama Bin Laden, and I would personally do the most inhumane things to that man possible. And I'd take my damn sweet time doing it.

Anyone who doesn't like that can kiss my ass.



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 03:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Torture is a Crime against Humanity, and it does not much matter which country the torturer comes from - only that they be arrested and prosecuted.




Murder is a Crime against Humanity, and it does not matter which country the murderer comes from - only that he (or she) be arrested and prosecuted.

A blanket statement that law breakers should be prosecuted is easy to make. Given realities, which ones are addressed, in which is order, and by whom, are something we are forced to deal with.

Bashir of Sudan has been convicted by an International Court of genocide. He instigated vast scale systematic murder, mass rape, starvation and torture of half a million of his own people.

He defies arrest. He is just one example of world leaders who commit, with volition, mass murder with impunity.

Which has higher priority - the legal process to prevent murder or the one to track down and prosecute any and all interpretations of torture?

There are limited means and capability of enforcement of due legal process for crimes. A small fraction ever reach even a preliminary judicial stage.

Personally, I'd say prosecuting mass murderers, and finding ways to prevent them, has a much higher priority than some other issues.


Mike



[edit on 26-4-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 04:10 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 04:16 PM
link   
The Comments and Insults directed at other members will kindly stop now or warnings will commence..

Thank you

Semper



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join