Originally posted by scott_gui
You got it wrong Prototraveler...

you said: [...you don't have 7 years left before 2012 so now the Earth gets to live a little longer to squeeze Israel and the Bible into it...]

7 years is the "complete cycle". 3.5 years is the period of tribulation (or when man wreaks havoc on the world, like we haven't been doing that all along) and 2012 is EXACTLY that 3.5 time period. Think of it as the beginning of the end. The last 3.5 years, from 2012 on will be the time God wreaks havoc on the world. Namely the polarity shift, the earth stops rotating and then rotates the other way, fulfilling prophecy that the Sun will no longer rise in the East, but rise in the West. Tell me, how long do you think it would take for the Earth to stop rotating and start rotating the other way? I say a good six months, but who knows. I do know that the sun baking one side of the Earth for six months will fry people and freeze the dark side of the Earth.

December 21, 2012 could be the day of Rapture that all those who believe, did not take the Antichrist's mark on their hand or forehead and do not worship the Antichrist will be saved from God's wrath during the last 3.5 years.

Alrighty then! You will be needing a pair of these gravitational boots no doubt!

Do you not get that you base this all on pure speculation and conjecture...does the Bible give a date...no it sure doesn't...does the Mayan Calendar explain it's own purpose...no it doesn't.

Do you know how many Christians since the Book of Revelations was written over the centuries have declared this is the end? Only for life to still be going on centuries later.

What you have is a deep seeded pagan and primitive need to find answers for questions you simply have no real answers for. Oooo thunder...Thor is angry...no Tarzan Thor not angry...that's just Chetah banging on this cooking pot I brought from England...why you cook pot Jane, to tenderize, pot hurt Tarzan's teeth.

You attribute all this miraculous fear based nonsense to these supposedly brilliant all seeing all knowing things that can't even say...at 12:42 PM on the 16th of April 2009 United Airlines Flight 1311 departs from Spokane bound for Los Angeles...

Not only can you not prove me wrong, you can't prove you are right...because you are simply adapting something general and vague to insist you are right because your are afraid and can't stand not knowing, and negatively charged insisting that nothing good can happen and trying to force others to manifest that into a shared reality with you, which is just self defeatist and evil.

Me, personally, if I was going to be a God I sure wouldn't traumatize the people I created and supposedly care for by insisting and telling them they are doomed to fail.

Here is a little wisdom for you, if your God created you in his own image, telling you that you are going to fail, it means he is a failure too, and what ever he promised you, or you imagine he promised you, he is as incapable of doing and delivering as you and his followers are incapable of succeeding and achieving.

No offence but it's just a bunch of whiney loosers who lack vision, drive, confidence and belief in themselves, and frankly if you can't get it together I wish he did exist and would get you out of here...you are intent on destroying life and at the very least of letting it be destoyed.

That's a crime and since your God is a fugitive who won't show his face, and a conspirator promising all this death and destruction, and you support him, I think you ought to be charged with aiding and abetting a conspiracy and a fugitive from justice.

Try that one on for size!

I take no offense to anything you say. I find it interesting that the anti-religious folks seemed to be the most aggressive about their stance. I don't feel any pressure to convince you or anyone, nor to justify my beliefs. And if you read my earlier thread, I fully concede that what I had was speculation, so I am doing what my God tells me to do. To watch and be vigilant, for nothing but faith will save us. It doesn't matter what I believe or what you believe, for tomorrow will take care of itself. One could reject gravity all they want, but if they jump from a tree, they will fall.

Originally posted by scott_gui
I take no offense to anything you say. I find it interesting that the anti-religious folks seemed to be the most aggressive about their stance. I don't feel any pressure to convince you or anyone, nor to justify my beliefs. And if you read my earlier thread, I fully concede that what I had was speculation, so I am doing what my God tells me to do. To watch and be vigilant, for nothing but faith will save us. It doesn't matter what I believe or what you believe, for tomorrow will take care of itself. One could reject gravity all they want, but if they jump from a tree, they will fall.

A wise man once said if you are falling off of a cliff you might as well learn to try to fly.

Christians rarely see their own passive agressive stance because they cocoon themselves in a circular logic that grants them absolution for their combined and individual actions but not freedom to try to learn how to fly whether they are falling off of a cliff or not, but they will be the first to tell you if God had meant for man to fly he would have given you wings.

Contemplating the meaning of life and the universe let alone seriously trying to understand and make sense of it would drive most people to madness without a doubt.

Yet a contrived abdication and an unvalidated substitute belief system that is subject to gross manipulations and distortions is not really the way to go in my humble oppinion.

I have put this question to most devout Christians I know and it goes basically like this...if a mere mortal man, or group of mere mortal men, with no connection to any spirituality or religion were to mimick with the aide of technology and mass media manipulation the events leading up to and surrounding the anti-christ and the Trump and these people caused similiar death and destruction but truly were just opportunistic frauds looking to take advantage of religious prophecies for their own personal gain would you stand against them and fight them...

Nine out of ten will say no...I wouldn't care...I would trust in the Lord...

Now this is where it gets really scary...when I ask the same 10 devout Christians...well if the Muslims made a provocative act of war aimed at the Christian west would you fight them...the same 9 out of 10 who said no to the first scenario will say yes to this second scenario...you bet we would fight them...

I have a right to aggressively fight for my freedoms and survival and frankly I find it disgustingly disturbing that Christians would in fact lie down not because they are pacifists but because they are so desperate to validate their belief system in what is in essence their only clearly defined shot to validate it through their own death through their mass murder by their God called the Trump.

If your God is really talking to you, which we both know he isn't, but is just your desire to validate your own existence and insecure place in a Universe you do not want to challenge yourself to fully comprehend or productively and fully contribute too...ask him hey God why is it you set us all up to fail and why is it I have to accept being murdered to ever get to meet you and why did you create such a screwed up system that you have clearly forbidden us to fix?

Let me know if you get an answer because I would love to hear it...pure faith alone...is better defined as pure ignorance and pure wishful thinking.

What you are wishing for is the death and destruction of billions of human beings simply to prove to yourself that being so foolish and ignorant to take something so cruel and malignant on faith was the right personal choice...

Sadly that is all too Christian and anyone with a questioning and logical mind would see there is not one shred of logic in that.

Simply put Christians invite the reign of a despoitc figure mythically known as the Anti-Christ to validate their own belief system which believes that is the pathway to finally getting to actually see, and talk to a God that has already exposed them to practically every evil and hardship one can imagine through his abandonment and neglect...

And you call me aggressive?

Wow!

I had a prophetic dream that on 01,01,2013 I was at a Dairy Queen, having a big Chocolate Shake, outside, with my dog and reading a newspaper article about all of the gullible people who ran to the mountains or below the equator and the money and jobs they left behind helped to fuel the new economy. Love it.

People have been predicting the end of the world for a long long long time, but it hasn't happened yet, BUT, things do occasionally occur that change everything. In 1893 when Tesla introduced to the world the ability to generate electricity at the Chicago World's Fair, the world changed, or at least it changed very dramatically for mankind. When John Locke wrote his concepts of on the rights of man and the balance of power in government, the world changed. These things do happen. When Berners-lee wrote the code for the world wide web, the world changed, and for some crazy reason I keep thinking it is going to happen again this summer.

Well, that would be all well and good if God thought that life on Earth is what it is ALL about.... but Christians believe it is not. I do not, nor do other Christians who believe in the end times prophesy want billions of people to die. We just believe that there are catastrophes on Earth that are coming that will make it so.

I tell you this, my body, after I am dead and gone is nothing but fertilizer, because my soul will have moved onto somewhere else. That is the REAL tragedy. If one is all consumed with their life on Earth, then they will do everything they can do to safe guard that body, while spending little to no attention to the real value you hold... and that is your heart and soul inside. You know people like to point to cruelty of Christians over the years (i.e. inquisition or pedophile Preachers) and that is fine, but I say those Christians have been led astray and are not walking in the way of Christ so they are no Christian of mine. No, I will choose the one whose message is the one of PEACE and LOVE. That man was more courageous and compassionate that a million modern day saints put together and my desire to meet him one day doesn't mean I wish other to not.

Your allusion to me and other Christians naively going down in flames to prove in our own head that we were right all along is Pride. Pride is a vice we all deal with... on this very site. We wish to gain the attention and acceptance of others here. But in the end, it really doesn't matter what I think or you think, it doesn't matter if you want to fight against an enemy or that I don't, the Earth will do what the Earth will do.

Luke 12:22
“For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. 23 “For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 “Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap; they have no storeroom nor barn, and yet God feeds them; how much more valuable you are than the birds! 25 “And which of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life’s span? 26 “If then you cannot do even a very little thing, why do you worry about other matters?

>> Regardless of what really did happen or would happen I sure wouldn't be wishing for a bad outcome even then...

>> Please, for your own sake...be honest...why are you?

>> Don't be a pawn...be a swan...

This was your most heart felt and thought provoking post thus far. Keep em coming. Maybe it was because you were responding to the more sensible poster and not a nut job religious Jesus freak like me, but I liked it none the less.

Let me be clear, I am not wishing for a bad outcome. I am simply observing and settling it in my heart about where my priorities are. Let me ask you this. What does the man do, who is in free fall, when his parachute does not open? He KNOWS what is coming. Does him acknowledging that constitute "negative" thinking in your book? Will the power of his positive thinking make his parachute open? No it will not.

Christians are not suicidal and life isn't a game to us either. We think of life on Earth as the means to learn how to get closer to God. And you can't just hear how to do it to get there, you have to live it and experience it first hand to get there. So why would I want my life on Earth cut short if my learned cumulative experiences here teach me how to love and appreciate God. If you and I were standing at the base of Mount Everest and I pointed up and said the apex is where you will find God, well how does one get there? I could teach you all the mountaineering skills on Earth, but it won't get you one step closer to the apex unless you start climbing.

I fully agree with something is going to happen, and it may start this summer. We all need to realize there may even be a shortage on food this year. If they close down all the borders and imports and exports that will effect us alot. There will be food shortages, gas rationing, and much more.
Then we have to realize on top of all of that folks will be getting sick from the flu.

My mom always use to say its best to prepare for the worst if it comes you were ready, if it doesnt at least you wont have to shop for awhile. You may even save some cash by doing that.

By the looks were better off if we do prepare for the worst.

As for the religion part of this, well to each his own. I dont go to church but I believe in a higher power. I believe there is a God. And that when we die we go to heaven. But I dont push those beliefs on anyone nor do I tell them how they should believe, so to those that dont believe in God. Please dont make us look like idiots just because you dont believe in God or the Bible.

Do I believe in the Bible? Some of it, but not all of it. I have my reasons. But I do read it. Do I believe in the end of the world as we know it? I sure do.

All life has a begining and an end. Why wouldnt our world have an end? It may not be destroyed completely, but I am sure it wont ever be the same again.

When you add up all the things happening right now in this world, and I am sure by the end of summer there will be alot more, it starts sounding more and more like Revelations.

Many folks are even seeing more things in dreams, I believe this is Gods way of telling us something Big is about to happen.

If bible prophecy has truth and this event coincides with 2012 then we should being seeing the 2 witnesses appear shortly.

They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

Mr. Scott_gui...for someone who is Christian you sure aren't very accepting of people who are not a 'nut job' like yourself.

'but I say those Christians have been led astray and are not walking in the way of Christ so they are no Christian of mine'

You have a very developed sense of prejudice and one of very little forgiving. I, myself, am not of your faith yet I have more of a 'Christian' attitude than yourself. I take it, it doesn't matter what you do on this earth because you will be forgiven.

Regardless if the world is going to end when you say it will or not...does it really matter? You may get hit by a car tomorrow - I may get struck by your Lord's lightening. What matters is that we live our lives with respect, honesty and love. Isn't that what it's about?

I am reading a 'non-fiction' book about a man who meets the spirits who created us. I get the impression from this book that those spirits tell him that they did not create us to worship them, but to love each other. Interesting though if you ask a Christian their views - they say the man spoke to God and that we should love him.

I believe we should focus more on each other and less on the revelations of the bible.

john 13:34

lets stop obsessing.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by scott_gui]

[edit on 8-5-2009 by scott_gui]

i some how believe in 2012..but when started to dig deep into this subject..i ended in a ditch
i watched the bob dean,hoagland interviews..while most of the facts are a possibility, i am afraid bob dean's view regarding annunaki is nothing short of an entertaining masala movie.. can anyone tell me where in the sky can i see nibiru

I agree with Scott_gui...why obsess about it? I have questions for those that are sure on the date of 'the world ending'.

If you are so sure, have you prepared mentally and physically for that day...accepted your fate - if not, then your belief of this end must not be as real as you think it is.

If you believe in the world ending, have you changed the way you live? If you have because of 'endings' then isn't that just as wrong as living your life 'incorrectly' according to your god? Changing because of fear of the end.

I don't believe that the 'world will end' in our lifetime..besides it doesn't matter. I love my children, spouse and family. I am kind and caring to the best of my ability - just because I don't believe in your god, doesn't mean I won't be saved. It means that I will know that when MY world ends, I will have a very fulfilled life...and will be enjoying my afterlife

[edit on 10-5-2009 by debbiegirl]

I have never agreed with the end of the world scenario myself, even without man the planet would continue.

although I see that many people will survive through the end times as we know it, many unfortunately will not,
A select type of people will continue, those who have a similar belief system as well as an understanding of what is happening.
Those people will usher in the new world, gone will be money and goverments, people all willing to help others, not for how it makes them look in the eyes of others, but because it is the right thing to do.