CNN cover - "Texas governor says secession possible"

Yes, it does.

Millions of Texans would leave Texas and come into the United States.

No doubt about that.

And a country, in this day and age, is not able to handle isolationism. It's not plausible. Every nation within this world, EVEN NORTH KOREA, has a relationship with a country.

And it seems you haven't answered what would happened if Texas was invaded by the Cartels.

Even with the national guard helping, it's still a problem.

Imagine: no FBI, no national budget, no money coming from the government to help Texas.

Do you know how much the US puts into Texas to help it? Do you want to put a number on it?

reply to post by Mak Manto


Again all I see from you is Theory ...conjecture. You are so certain that this would happen and that would happen... Nothing has happened at all.. People have only put the idea on the table and you contribute nothing but scare tactics and Straw Man arguments.

As I already stated on this thread I am going to try and avoid the frivolous answers.

I could go on and on about our infrastructure what Texas has as Natural resources our relationship with Mexico and how it is different then that of the other states...but their is not point.

I am not a policy maker and Texas has not yet seceded from the Union.... Folks are only talking about it... Granted we talk favorably about it but for now it is talk.

Some of us talk more sensibly than others.

Your words of disparagement are yours to speak but I assure you Texans do not share your reservations about the idea.

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Again all I see from you is Theory ...conjecture.

These are theories and conjectures that any good leader would go through when determining what could go wrong.

So what is your answer to them?

On another note...

31% of Texans claim right to secede, yet 75% opt to stay part of the Union

Doesn't look like many Texans really want to Secede...

[edit on 23-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Let's be realistic, shall we. No state is going to secede. This is all just right wing, macho, chest thumping, transparent politickin by the desperate ones up for reelection.

The states are so inextricably linked financially/economically/banking, power grid, food distribution, pipelines, DOW/SP etc. No state could actually stand alone.

Romantic perhaps, but it ain't gonna happen. Dream your right wing dreams if it makes you happy but also deny ignorance.

@ HunkaHunka and Mak Manto:

Please list SPECIFICALLY how Texas would not be able to survive. This is twice I have asked this of you Mak. I am waiting.



As for the Cartel's . . . Texas' hands are being tied by the Federal government. Texas has been wanting to put troops on the border. They just put the Texas Rangers (law enforcement, not baseball team)down there because the USA is dragging its feet.

As for a standing military . . . we do have a state military, and you would be fooling yourself if you do not believe that most of the population has at least one firearm . . . and most are unregistered.

The water problem, I have not heard about . . . but Texas has been getting a buttload of rain lately, from what I understand.

If TX were to secede, I would be there giving a hand.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


HunkaHunka.... Unless one of the three of us are policy makers of some kind I do not see the current point in engaging in that fantasy. Heck I don't even believe Perry has the stones to do it. He is just playing off what Texans want to hear.... Not smart on his part because the votes he may earn out of it will expect action on it.

But I am not going to go on and on about our rivers, our year round growing season, the oil and natural gas, wind turbines, yada yada I could go on, understand? I could go on for hours and answer every infrastructure related question as well as a variety of diplomatic questions. I could engage in the imaginary fantasy but what would it accomplish?

All I am setting out to do here is to reason with my fellow Texans about the idea....and to ask everyone else what in the same hill bothers them so greatly about the idea of Texas leaving the union...

Is it a Knee Jerk mental reaction? Has Faux News really ingrained it into the US pysche that all Texans are just like Bush? Do you think we support Bush bot puppets like Perry who mess up our schools and interfere with our lives?

We have not forgotten that he tried to issue an executive order. The state constitution give the Governor no executive authority. We laughed at the fellow. Our State congress had to explain it to him.... Oh man I despise the guy...And I don't like Kay Baily any better....

These representatives are not representative of us and I can no longer fathom how they are in office accept to suspect election fraud.

Anyways IT doesn't pay to worry so much about what *COULD* happen with so much emotional investment about all the things that will go wrong when it happens...

If it happen then God Bless you and God Bless Texas and let us all find out how it would play out.

As a person who Travels ALOT who has been through nearly every corner of Texas I feel that she would fare just fine despite all the doom and gloom enthusiasts.

Originally posted by whaaa
. . .

The states are so inextricably linked financially

Texas' financial system is one of the best on the country, and it pays a HUGE amount to the USA. It would literally cripple the USA, if Texas left . . . you know, being the 10th biggest economy IN THE WORLD and all . . .

economically

Link. Take a gander at that.

banking

Texas has state banks

power grid,

Texas is on its own grid, built from the ground up for Texas. If the USA goes down, TX will still be running the lights

food distribution,

With growing seasons year round, Texas already has a food distribution network. Most of the food Texas grows stays local . . . the rest is sold off.

pipelines

Once again, Texas has its own system, built from the ground up . . . for Texas.

DOW/SP

If they wanted a stock market, they could easily create one with all of the huge businesses that call Texas home.

No state could actually stand alone.

Texas is not your average state. ANyone with half a brain can see that.

. . .deny ignorance.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[edit on 9/23/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

hooray ,, three cheers for texas , freedom from evil democidal american empire .

Who is going to feed, house and clothe the population, in the millions, who are senior citizens..?
No medicare, no social security money, no nothing.

Welfare recipients.... Too bad for all of you I guess.

Who is going to feed, house and clothe all of the disabled veterans and non veterans..?? again, no federal Nothing.

Where will you receive your electricity..? No Grid, NONE.

Nothing shipped out of, or into Texas, can you say EMBARGO..? That takes care of all imported foods and textiles, fuel, et cetera.

That's just the Beginning.....

It's a romantic idea, but impossible in this day and age. It's nice to think that Texas will build all of the Grids and refineries and textile mills and farms and postal services and hospitals and schools that it needs, but it's not very realistic at all, is it?

Daydreams, that's all it is, but it won't ever happen because Texas can't take care of itself, all by itself. Truth hurts, but it's still the truth.

Just think about all of the lives that will be lost, just trying to survive once all of the Walmarts are stripped clean.

Originally posted by uaocteaou

Daydreams, that's all it is, but it won't ever happen because Texas can't take care of itself, all by itself. Truth hurts, but it's still the truth.

Um... Maybe you are a socialist but Texas is not... And in case you missed the link HERE IT IS AGAIN

Everything you said Texas does not have was bunk. We have all that and more.

As for who would take care of folks? I am sure we could figure out a better solution than the government that bailed out the banks only to ask them for a loan a Six months later.

AND THATS THE TRUTH!

The federal taxes Texas pays more than likely exceeds any revenues the US Gov't hands back.

Not to mention the depletion allowance tax could stay in Texas or be discontnued.

Texas wouldn't have any trouble trading with adjacent states if it was a sovereign state.

Europe does it all the time.

I'd like to see Texas secede.
No stronger message could be sent to Washington D.C..


I live in Arizona and if Texas goes, I hope they'll take us with them.
New Mexico too.

The way things are going, it's easy to foresee a Western US and an Eastern US in the future.
Split at the Mississippi River would work ok.

Long as I'm at it, Texas - or Western US - diplomats could deal with Mexico, change the Mexico/Arizona border to a straight line instead of the S/W border going up at an angle.
That would give Arizona a deep water port.

Seems reasonable to me, things aren't working too well the way they're going....

And here is the new Anthem... (sang to Alabama's "If yer gonna play in Texas")


If yer gonna play in Texas
Ya better have secession in the plan!
Them Union Days where hot, but not for an Independent maaaaan
So grab yer rifles, tell all 'em Yankees to go pound sand
If yer gonna play in Texas
Ya better have secession in the plan!

reply to post by Desert Dawg

The way things are going, it's easy to foresee a Western US and an Eastern US in the future.
Split at the Mississippi River would work ok.

You guys don't want Cali, Oregon, or Wash St., so lets split it at the Mississippi and below the Mason/Dixon line! GA, AL, MS, LA, FL all want to come with you TX folks!

We can let the North East and West of the Rockies to fend for themselves!!

reply to post by titorite

Um... Maybe you are a socialist but Texas is not...

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a 14 year old..?

It's a silly premise, and I would ask you how, not if you can, but how would you buy anything when your money is no good anywhere else?.. what would you base your currency on..? Dirt?... Bibles..? Chuck Norris' whiskers.?

Get over yourself dude. You're proud of your State, that's nice. But at least use reason and logic to form and defend an argument, not just
"Uh-HUH"!!

Texas, at this moment, is legally and technically NOT part of the United States.

Nor are the other Confederate states that pulled out of the Union.

They are technically occupied territories under the Constitution, and the laws "Congress" made after 1861 are all invalid, as the Congress where half left in 1861 were never recalled, nor were they dismissed, nor were they properly adjourned.

How could these "states" pass legislation, if they weren't present to vote on, and how could any additional amendments be legally and Constitutionally passed by former states who had voluntarily left the union.

Remember. It was the United States. Not the United States belonging to DC.

Lincoln assumed dictatorial powers, effectively dissolved the Constitutional union, and set in place an executive controlled corporation.

All the states need to do is get rid of their "stock."

Legally, Constitutionally, technically, and morally, the Confederate States are NOT part of the United States.

They were never Legally, Constitutionally, Technically, nor morally rejoined to the original Constitutional US, which had been abolished.

As soon as the War was over, they should have had a new Constitutional Convention.

Didn't happen.

Texas and any other Confederate State could pull out without breaking any laws, any treaties, or the Constitution.

DC could just choke on it.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by dooper


Dooper, my brother, "memarf" on ATS, has been looking into exactly what you mention. Here is the email thread from the "Office of the Historian" regarding his questions!

I replaced his name, and my name with stars to comply with T&C's.

Memarf is primarily a skeptic, and he provides a wonderful sounding board for me to bounce ATS ideas off of. He is also very bold and educated, and capable of eliciting responses where most of us would fail!

I hope this helps!

(Read from the Bottom up for continuity.)

Mr Hayes,

I always question things like this so I appreciate you looking into the matter. It does seem to be rather on the fringe of things. I would like it however, if you would look at the page. The particular post is on a blog and is the 6th from the top. The post was done by the screen name protoplasmic traveler. The link is below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please let me know what you think of this and if there is any prudence to any of his claims.

Thank You,
***********


On Sep 19, 2009 9:38am, "Hayes, Benjamin" wrote:
>
> Mr. ********,
>
> The President's power to convene Congress is the central point to this question, not a minor point.
> Since he has the power, the laws that might have been passed by the special session of Congress would be valid. You can send me the link if you wish, but I wouldn't give too much weight to what it says.
>
> Mr. Hayes
> --------------------------
>
> Sent using BlackBerry
>
> From: *****************************>
>
> To: Hayes, Benjamin; ******************
>
> Sent: Fri Sep 18 21:49:20 2009
> Subject: Re: Office of the Historian
>
>
> Dear Mr. Hayes,
>
> Thank you for your quick response. First, I did not know that, it has been a long time since I have read the constitution. Second, ignoring that one minor detail, can you respond to the other parts of the question? The reason I am asking is b/c I have found a disturbing website that is claiming that no laws since 1861 have been constitutional b/c of the adjournment of the Congress and the way they were reconvened. It has to do specifically with the 3 latin terms(De Facto, De Jure, and Sine Die). If you like I can provide you a link to the website and the loooong description of the claim that I am referring to.
>
> Thank You,
> **** ******
>
> On Sep 18, 2009 4:38pm, "Hayes, Benjamin" [email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > Mr. *******,
> >
> > Thank you for your request. To clarify, what do you mean when you say that President Lincoln “called congress back into session De Facto, which of course is beyond his authority.” Article 2, Sec. 3 of the Constitution states that the President “ may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them.” If this is what he did, then it is perfectly within his power to do so.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Benjamin Hayes
> > Researcher
> > Office of the Historian
> > U.S. House of Representatives
> > B-56 Cannon House Office Building
> > Washington, D.C. 20515
> > Ph.(202) 226-5525
> > Fx. (202) 226-2931

I am all for splitting the country, bankrupting the current government, and forming an Actual Republic as was intended by our forefathers! But, I don't think we can count on previous legal mistakes, or loopholes to get it done. It is going to take something more drastic.

www.youtube.com...
"If the South Would've Won, We'd have had it made!"
Bocephus!

[edit on 23-9-2009 by getreadyalready]

Originally posted by uaocteaou

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with a 14 year old..?

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you based on all you invalid assumptions as truth.

It's a silly premise, and I would ask you how, not if you can, but how would you buy anything when your money is no good anywhere else?.. what would you base your currency on..? Dirt?... Bibles..? Chuck Norris' whiskers.?

We print some money backed by our resources.

Apparently you have trouble clicking on a link or you just did not like the reference. Texas already has Farms, Fuel, Textiles, minerals, etc etc.

With many rivers and a year round growing season we can produce more agriculture and livestock than we can consume.

The Texas electric grid operates on its own foundation...

You seem to know very VERY little about this state and yet you proclaim this and that with authority.

You ask me to use logic to defend my argument...

I propose the you know what your talking about by researching the topic before you chime in making all kinds of declarations on a subject you are obviously unfamiliar with.

Click the wiki link and read... you might learn something and deny yourself some ignorance.

reply to post by getreadyalready


That was an amazing post.. thanks for doing the leg work on that.

So now we know that anyone who claims that any laws post 1861 are unconstitutional is simply unaware of what the Constitution allows for the President.

Awesome!

reply to post by titorite


Apparently only 25% of the Texans want to secede. If we were playing Texas holdem; them ain't to great of odds.


current.com...

deny ignorance indeed.

Gov. Rick needs to come up with a platform rather than some pie in the sky fantasy, only fools buy into. I'd play any game of chance with 3 to 1 odds.

Let me say it again......all hat no cattle!

Don't get me wrong; as a native son I love Texas and Texans. I spend lots of time fishing for specs and reds down by Rockport, play in the beerjoints around Austin and have a beautiful girlfriend from Galveston but most Texans I know have a much better grasp on reality than some in this thread.




[edit on 23-9-2009 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa


Well Then maybe we should go with Hunka polls because his poll showed the number of Texans for secession at over 30%...

Funny thing about polls.... A good pollster can get what ever outcome they desire.

In fact I saw a recent poll indicating that over 90% of the people polled find polls to be relatively pointless

Seriously though between those among us that vote and those that don't... I think if given all the information....time to absorb it... and a free and fair vote by the people.....I think the people would vote in favor of the Republic of Texas.