IIG's investigation of the Billy Meier HOAX

reply to post by derekcbart


Derek, I think we will go aroud in circles on this one. I am not a metallurgist and I cannot read from a spectogram. There is a very detailed scientific report on the metal analysis to be found on Steelmark for $9. It is free if you are part of a media and probably some research team, just contact them and say you would like to peruse the document. However, I would imagine as you've spent so much money on Meier already, an extra $9 to read the reports will not add much to the hole in your pocket. Moreover, you should have read this report already frankly.

zero and that is what the world revolution will be. You took the words from my mouth. People need to look at the billy case that way. Maybe that was what were missing.

Exactly my point.

Ok you are open minded, yet, people here are making the same argument you made back then (which you presented well by the way) yet, you are not even answering most of the points made here, that is why people here are saying you must be a full Meier cult supporter because like all of them you just keep posting long posts most of them being repetitive copy and paste jobs from horn site but not really answering anything which is the run around all Meiers supporters do. They learned from Michael Horn.

Another tactic that Meiers followers use is when someone points out to them that the photos are fake they change the topic to the metal or audio, or predictions or spiritual teachings etc. But they never give a straight answer to certain points that count.

Same thing that was done to you before, it's the same thing you are doing now. Figures!!

EffEcTiVe_UniT:

The whole point was that the female (with a disease or not) was never used in the film, they used dummies so what Meier said was not correct in any way. But then again maybe he has his famous amnesia at the time right!

Care to comment about Meier’s famous amnesia excuse when the photos of the girls were found to be fake? Yet, an alien race relied on someone that suffers amnesia to carry a message to enlighten us and save all humans.

If you don't know what Jim Dilettoso said about the wcufo now in 2009 then you haven't read enough about what is going on with Michael Horn misquoting people. The paracast is where you find the interview with Dilettoso
Also I guess u haven’t seen the video making fun of Meier where Jim Diletoso appears with Jeff Ritzmann right? Look for it, not hard to find!

Do you care to talk about why Michael Horn cropped the video so much in the new DVD when the supposedly UFO did the jump.
Cropped in a way that moving branch didn't show well. Not even a comment about that from my post! Typical!!

WCUFO False perspective photo, 100% fake said by many and most important said by Jim Dilettoso. Just look at the size of the rock wall!!!
That is meier in his motorcycle, please don't tell me you will ignore this!
even if the fake aliens were midgets they wouldn't fit in that thing.

img19.imageshack.us...

Btw Meier still has metal samples, do you ever wonder why Michael Horn never gets them and get them tested? He was challenged to do so and win 1 million dollars if they were real! Doesn’t your common sense tell you something about that, or do you just choose to ignore these things like all the others points people make here!!

Anyway this is so played out, it gets boring. Be happy with your beliefs and sit tight, the plejaran will come back in 700 years right!

Mystiq, you went hook line and sinker for the Xtian propaganda to think that enki is the evil one, enki is the liberator of humanity and is all for the spread of the truth.

Father Satan Lucifer or Enki does have some ex-annunaki as his demons which guard him and the rest of what the bible calls hell from invasive entities send by Ea or Yaweh if you will.

I will always remain on the fence on Billy Meier, just because they look like old 1950's movies doesn't mean that's not the real way they look, moreover, maybe hollywood was INSPIRED by these ETs.

Whoopsie, double post.

What is the most prominent evidence FOR the case, I know the sound of the beamship used to give me the shivers like as I had heard it before.

I never refuted Pleiadans existed since there is alot of evidence to corroberate with that including multiple witness accounts esspecially in europe.

Funny enough in my homeland, country of origin of the bilderbergers, the most common sighting I heard are Reptilians, perhaps related to the royal family? I wonder if reptilians bleed blue hence the term blue blood.

[edit on 4/19/2009 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

manny i dont say repetative things only when you ask the same questions. You ask a question and i answer it the best i can. If you want to stop getting the same answers then start asking us different questions.

manny, tell me what i did NOT answer or change the subject. When you ask me a question and i dont know i say i dont know. If i do know something then i tell you. Are you expecting a different answer?

And define cult. Because i hear about people always saying billy meier is a cult. Lets look at the definition of a cult as a noun ok?

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

1.Billy meier does not worship, nor any of his "followers" He does not preach worship due to the fact according to him is almost harmful to your psych as you are almost forfeiting yourself to an unknown entity.

2. Are you going to say that ALL religions are cults? Are you going to say thata group of people that thinks exercising is followers to the exercise cult? No.

3.Billy meier once again does not devote his time also advises us to do the same to not devote our time to religious beliefs or any thing that is clearly illogical or any of that sense. All he says is practically is to devote your time to better yourself, to understand your issues and your mind and body and meditation. If that is a cult then why is no one saying buddhism is a cult? They have very striking similarities.

4. Look at 2.

5.All billy has is a peace meditation which is very ordinary and also is the same as buddism meditation. Once again are you going to accuse buddism for being a cult? I dont hear anything about that hmm?

6.Billy lives in the country side not in an underground vault or anything. He also repeatively said that the spiritual teachings is NOT preaching to an entity or god so therefor is NOT able to be a religion as a religion preaches to this.

7. read 6.

8.Billy often shown his evidence and it got by scientific scruntity. He does not label ignorance and irresponsibility as a sickness and therefor he wants to help cure that. All he is doing is to help people to think critically rather then just watching tv or doing boring mundane things in your life that has no value or any learning methods involved.

Now reading that, tell me how billy meier is still the ring leader of a cult.

ground_zero, i have heard the story about the reptilians. According to my speculation, i think its BS. The reason why i think it is if these lizards are what they are then what really stops them from taking us over? Nothing. Also, Alex Colliers Real name is Ralph amagram. You dont need to know michael horn to know that as i once went to one of his presentations and someone asked him that question and he simply froze.

I am not saying its completely true OR false, i just have SERIOUS doubts about that.

Lets assume you did read about Alex Collier ask yourself a few questions. Please keep in mind that i do not mean to personally attack you.

Has Alex provided any evidence about his encounters? Rocks? Pictures? Videos? Conversations that is on paper? The questions do go on. I would be happy to find out about this to help support his case. But keep in mind that i dont buy any of his stories or conversations due to this. If he has provided anything other then drawings which anyone could have made it, then i will be intrigued. Unfortunately i dont see any.

*slight Modification.

[edit on 19-4-2009 by EffEcTiVe_UniT]

Here's a useful little lesson for those of you interested in learning how to understand the world: ANYONE who tells you that they have the answers to ANYTHING in some sort of a definitive way, be extra cautious of them. Forget all the bogus photographs, misrepresentations of people's quotes, ridiculous "prophecies" - if you want to believe that an advanced intelligence would select to communicate exclusively with a single person who claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, well, you can believe in anything, right? As someone who has debunked a couple of the rather mundane Meier images, I'm totally comfortable saying that we need to put this religious cult to bed, stop wasting time debating it and take a look at the many excellent, compelling UFO cases that are indeed real events. Every moment that you spend debating this nonsensical, long-running silliness is time you could have spent researching the Bentwaters/Rendelsham events, Varghinia, Trindade, and the many other compelling cases. Search out "Best Evidence" and ufos on Youtube, or visit the Paracast TV thread on my website, and you can learn about some of the best UFO cases on record. Real mysteries, not some sort of ridiculous garbage designed for simple minds.

All of this noise about Vogel - the guy was NOT a metallurgist. What makes you think he was qualified to analyze metal samples? Has anyone in the last 20 years, a respectable, credible lab, done any analysis? Has anyone had access to original negatives of photographs? Derek has done some great work verifying that just about everyone quoted by Horn feels that their words have been distorted and misrepresented. Dilettoso has gone on the record with my show about his feelings, and how he's been misquoted over the years. Horn has been caught in any number of lies on the Paracast forums - and the ATS forums, if memory serves me correctly - what more do you need to put this "case" to bed? Why do you want to believe in this nonsense so badly?

NO ONE knows what is inside UFOs, why they are here, where they are from, and what they have to do with our history. NO ONE. Lots of people have theories, but at this time, there are no answers. Any before anyone starts up with the "debunker" noise, if you listen to my internet radio show, you already know that I've seen a LOT of very weird stuff in my life - and I don't have definitive explanations for ANY of it, just lots of questions and some carefully-considered thoughts about what it all might mean. I offer no answers. Anyone offering answers doesn't actually have any insight or knowledge, they only have opinions. Seriously. Can we please put this dog out of it's misery? Meier is not the real deal. If you think he is, just realize that according to him, all other UFO cases are bunk. Do you really think this is true? If so, and you've seen a UFO, Meier says you're a liar. Think about that very, very carefully.

And that's all I plan to add to this thread. Keeping this discourse going is not productive, constructive or useful. If you think that Meier is the real thing, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you, really cheap. Just don't plan on walking across it anytime soon...

dB

such a bold statement db. If this case was officially debunked then why hasnt this spread in the news. Why does he have 24/7 army surveillance on him?

You say we should divert our attention to other events such as the ones you named. Ok? It happened. a few things happened some strange lights. Thats it. There is nothing else to say?

Billy Meier on the hand is still producing contact notes about world events. Billy meier is an ongoing investigation.

You said that vogel isnt a metalurgist. Even if he wasnt, i havent heard someone come forward and say "hey guys i popped that baby out". No one. Why is this. Because cold fusions STILL cant even be done with current technology.

I often state that i dont know and that i will try to explain it to the best of my knowledge. I NEVER claimed i knew everything about a subject because if that was the case then i would be closed minded to new information. Which is clearly the opposite. I am always learning. If you knew everything about a certain subject then you wouldnt be wasting your time on that subject ever again. In 50 years wyat happens if a new discovery was found, are you going to say that you knew it already? How many people are going to believe you then? No one. If you knew everything about everything then you have no reason to live. Since the only reason for us really living is to expereience and to gain knowledge. Unless you cna provide me a different reason on what the meaning of life is, go ahead and rock my boat.

Like i stated in one of my previous statements. you claim Billy Meier is hoaxed and officially debunked. Where is the scientific analysis? If you can reproduce his photos EASILY go to a photo lab and get a technician to analayse that. See how well you can do it. If you claim that videos are debunked then make your own as you always claim that they are so easy to make. Make a 3 min film about it, and test it with a video technician. See what they say. Instead of wasting your time on argueing, maybe put your time into something that matters like actually putting your alledged evidence to the test and finally stop this charade. Only then maybe youll become credible. I have talked to many people and they all say that if billy meier is so easy and such a fake then anyone would be happy to prove him for a fraud and put it to "simple" tests to get thi8s out of the way. But no, i still havent seen it. If you have then send me a link with SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that billy hoaxed this. Even if you do succesfully debunk his photos or videos(which i highly doubt with 1970 technology) then you have another 5 categories of irreproducable evidence to go through, such as the sound, the metal, the personal witnesses(the famous melting penny billy performed in front of 16 people including some tourists), videos, pictures and prophecies.

So if you REALLY want this billy meier case proven a hoax then people would do those above. But no one still hasnt. Why? IF this was just a joke then im sure people would be able to prove him with easy results. Nope, still no results.

About the Dilettoso issue. Show me where he said that he has been misquoted. Even then, Michael horn does make mistakes, hes human but does that give you the right to verbally assault or slang billy meiers info? No it doesnt.

Now speaking of Derek. He said it himself that he does nto wish to put his testing and photos/videos through the same testing as billy meier did. He said that on record. Why? If he claimed he debunked him then he would be MORe then happy to go through the same testing as billy meier did would he not? Thats very suspicious. So much for your Derek standing up for your side of interests huh?

And another thing. He did not say that all ufo encounters sucha s lights and so on is NOT fake. Abductions however, is a rare case. He mentioned that 2-3 REAL cases has happened. One of them happene din brazil with that massive "invasion".

hen you said I had been seduced by Meier's spiritual teachings and compared that to Heaves's gate and WACO. You are aware the last guy used exactly the same argument and compared me to an Islamic fundamentalist? His argument was torn apart with embarrasing ramifications for him.

Actually, lets be clear, you didn't pull anything apart, nor did your 2 supporters who's contribution to ATS UFO research is about 30-50 points each (most on this thread), so I'm really not worried about the rebuttal that QUOTING you was "unfair" wow that was an amazing comeback. Then one of your 'buddies' focussed on 1 sentence, as opposed to the fact your entire quote plain and simple quoted:
you are more interested/fascinated in their teachings, blah blah blah, you went onto talk about their teachings as though they were fact/no congenture at all that they were anything but Plajaren gospel.
Nice try at deflection, but it didnt work, it still stands you are interested in their teachings and their 'spiritualism' therefore you wont acknowledge they may not exist.

I am embaressed about nothing, I think out of the 2 of us claiming the incredible, only one can be embarrassed.
I stand by what I said, I still find Meier a joke, and your support of him a reflection of your spiritual belief re Ariyians/Plajerians as you stated clearly yourself both in the post and your avatar.
I actually left the thread from boredom, nothing else, and will do so again now.






[edit on 20-4-2009 by zazzafrazz]

EffEcTiVe_UniT

I will put it real simple for you!

"Why does he have 24/7 army surveillance on him? "

Show us prove of that!!! not an article where Mh is saying that but a real document that can prove it!

"photos/videos through the same testing as billy meier did"

Prove to us when and were an "ORIGINAL" meier photo was tested!!

For a photo be tested as meier photo were supposdly tested they first need to do a copy of a copy of a copy of a "lithograph" as far as we concern meier never submitted an original or a negative for testing! and do you wonder why? he submited "lithograph" which the inverstigator stated it that it's invalid for any analizes as it degrades the quality a lot, but of course you will not see that in MH site reports. He misquotes and take out information from the reports for the love of god that have been proven already.

BTW of course you don't know the answer for most of the question as you say, that is the reason we are providing you with them!!

"manny, tell me what i did NOT answer or change the subject." you didn't answer but not even a comment either! is this for real?!!!

1- Do you care to talk about why Michael Horn cropped the video so much in the new DVD when the supposedly UFO did the jump.

2- WCUFO False perspective photo, 100% fake said by many and most important said by Jim Dilettoso. Just look at the size of the rock wall!!!
That is meier in his motorcycle, please don't tell me you will ignore this!
even if the fake aliens were midgets they wouldn't fit in that thing.

img19.imageshack.us...

3- Btw Meier still has metal samples, do you ever wonder why Michael Horn never gets them and get them tested? He was challenged to do so and win 1 million dollars if they were real! Doesn’t your common sense tell you something about that, or do you just choose to ignore these things like all the others points people make here!!

That was just from 1 single post, now let's check the 18 pages thread!!

Like ASPIE pointed out most meier's supporters have "'selective vision'"

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Indigo_Child

 

I think the Ray-gun might be real

you mean this one ?

you don't honestly think that's real do you ?

The shiny stuff (Alena's clothing) looks like the same shiny stuff used for the Apollo Lunar Module




^seen here

If it's good enough to get to the moon why couldn't those friends of Billy's use it in space also?

forget the fancy gun, just look at the arm holding it and the shiny stuff that looks to me like it's the same stuff on the Apollo LM

[edit on 20-4-2009 by OSSkyWatcher]

Originally posted by johnnyrobbo
The argument that Meier is in it for the money is ridiculous. The effort going into all this debunking is grounds for a conspiracy debate in itself.

Well, I suppose the Meier case is an 'action - reaction' kind of thing. Over the years Meier made some pretty fantastic claims which got challenged. Maybe both sides need to look at how they reach certain conclusions and if they really hold water.
I've read a lot of his material and in my opinion, the guy is a megalomaniac. Everything centers around him. Money is a factor in the case but it's not the main one. It's about creating a new religion with Meier as the main religious icon. He doesn't really pretend to be a man of the people, he wants to be a 'prophet'. Ufology is a vehicle to reach that goal and in order to have maximum influence, other material has to be debunked. That's what pro-Meier people seem to be forgetting. Yes, Billy Meier is a debunker himself. . .

[edit on 20-4-2009 by TerraX]

Originally posted by EffEcTiVe_UniT
such a bold statement db. If this case was officially debunked then why hasnt this spread in the news. Why does he have 24/7 army surveillance on him?

Who says that he does? This is one of those things that is repeated, like the 15-23 assassination attempts, but just like the assassination attempts there is NO evidence for it. There are NO police records of assassination attempts, just like there are NO reports of military surveillance. There isn't even a military base nearby to conduct the surveillance.

You said that vogel isnt a metalurgist. Even if he wasnt, i havent heard someone come forward and say "hey guys i popped that baby out". No one. Why is this. Because cold fusions STILL cant even be done with current technology.

Why would you need cold fusion to create a piece of metal that consists of nothing more than silver and copper? Again, only Vogel said that there was anything interesting about the metal. REAL metallurgists examined the metal sample and said that it was nothing more than silver and copper. Please review this again if you haven't done so already: www.iigwest.org...

About the Dilettoso issue. Show me where he said that he has been misquoted. Even then, Michael horn does make mistakes, hes human but does that give you the right to verbally assault or slang billy meiers info? No it doesnt.

I posted this earlier, but here it is again. These are the links to Jim Dilettoso saying that the Wedding Cake UFO is a fake and that he was unaware that Michael Horn was still using his 20+ year old analysis and presenting it as though it was recently done:
www.theparacast.com...
media.podcastingmanager.com...

Now speaking of Derek. He said it himself that he does nto wish to put his testing and photos/videos through the same testing as billy meier did. He said that on record. Why? If he claimed he debunked him then he would be MORe then happy to go through the same testing as billy meier did would he not? Thats very suspicious. So much for your Derek standing up for your side of interests huh?

Now this is just a LIE. I have never said that I would never put the IIG photos up for testing. There is a belief that I was on the Coast To Coast AM show and said this. I have NEVER been on C2C. The only shows that I have been on concerning the Billy Meier Case are The Paracast and Culture of Contact. I would be happy to have the IIG photos tested in the same manner as the Meier photographs were, but it would be worthless. Most people do not understand what the photographic analysis was actually looking for. The tests described are looking for evidence of multiple exposures, paste ups, or other forms of manipulation. I don't believe that these were done in most of the Meier photographs. Some photographs have been shown to be the result of multiple exposures, but these are some of the lesser known photographs. If the photographs were single exposures with no laboratory manipulation then they would have the results described in the photographic analysis. The IIG photos would have the same results because those were all single exposures. Modern day Photoshop software has some of the same filters that Wendelle Stevens, Lee Elders, et al, had to run through expensive computers. That is why I have those versions on the IIG website at www.iigwest.org... Also, please keep in mind that the original analysis was not done on original camera negatives, but on prints or lithographs which are inappropriate for proper examination.

Here is something that you will probably find interesting. Jeff Ritzmann contacted the lab that was used for the photographic analysis and discovered this:

Interestingly enough, the article states De Anza, who was credited for providing the computers used to do the analysis of the Meier photos, well…didn't. Ken Dinwiddie, a De Anza employee said that Dilettoso "came to De Anza under the pretext of wanting to buy our equipment. We demonstrated it, and they snapped many pictures and left. We made no data interpretations whatsoever," When asked about the very photos shown in the official analysis report penned by Stevens and Dilettoso, showing "Thermogram" color density separations, Dinwiddie said, "No, we put those colors in the photo! Jim [Dilettoso] said, 'Can you make the bottom of the object appear to reflect the ground below?' I said yes, and we performed the operations that they asked for."

So, we have literal requests to have a De Anza employee put colors in a photo to give Dilettoso the "result" he wanted. In other words, it's altering data. Dinwiddie further states that no operation done at De Anza on the Meier photos substantiated the claims by Dilettoso, saying "Those are their interpretations, not ours. Nothing we did would have defined what those results meant."

If you want to research the topic and discuss it then I am more than willing to do so. However, if you are simply going to quote Michael Horn's website without doing any research on your own (you don't even have to leave the computer if you don't want to) then we will not be able to engage in a constructive dialogue.

Finally, this could all be put to rest if we could simply analyze the original camera negatives, the metal samples, and the original 8mm movies using modern technologies. However, it is Meier and his supporters who are the ones unwilling to release the materials for testing. One positive result does not make a case. The results need to be verified by more than one person in order to be conclusive. Again, I have a standing offer to personally pay for proper examination of the metal samples and to pay for the proper transfer and analysis of the photographs and films. To date, it is Meier, Horn, et al who are the ones making statements without providing any evidence.

-Derek

reply to post by TerraX


Money is a factor in the case but it's not the main one. It's about creating a new religion with Meier as the main religious icon. He doesn't really pretend to be a man of the people, he wants to be a 'prophet'

I disagree Terrax completely.
Money is definately not a factor, research the free material.
It is most definately not about creating a new religion, it's more about ridiculing the belief systems(religions) and relying on your own thinking. No worshipping no praying just personal meditation to aid to monitor and control your own personal thoughts 24/7.
As for prophet, he does sort of fit the bill in that he is the messenger. Now that is something each individual human being has to decide for themselves. He is not a savior. He tells us we are all on our own and we are responsible for our own thoughts and actions and we are on the road to destruction if we dont change and accept this responsibility, no one is going to save us.
I must admit I did find a lot of what he writes eg the laws of Creation very intimidating. It took a while to rap my head around the reincarnation issue that states your personality dies with your body and only lessons and experiences of the positive are accepted by your spirit, which is a fraction of Creation, which is the force/energy that is your life.

So what it comes down to is always remain neutral positive in your thinking and remove anger, hate and revenge from your personality. I find it very difficult my friend and being an aussie I love my beer.
Stay positive and monitor those thoughts, good luck

before i begin typing alot i want to comment on what Nola said a page ago. "experts" can be bought.

Derek im assuming that your with IIG from your signatures. This can be so easily used on you. You have more money then me/indigo/billy meier/etc.. so you could have EASILY paid off some scientists to work with you. Im not using this as an excuse, its just very possible like what happen to the US judicial even today. Your in deep trouble, you pay off the cop or judge and your off the hook.

I looked at the script you had in your website about page 214 about analysing the metal sample. I have that year 2001 book and i could not find it.

I apologize if im stand corrected about the title marcel vogel holds. But a chemist does work in the field of metals easily.

Cold fusion is how it was made. Supposively. If this was just so easy then simply make a piece of rock that would display those certain reflections or colors. Since your an organization im sure using some of your funds can aid you in this.

Regarding the negatives, i could not tell you as i dont know what happen. Alledgedly it was misplaced or stolen. Which keep in mind something this big of a story (hoax or not) government officials would like to minimize any exposure.

Regarding to the dilatosso statement about discrediting on the pictures. The documentary that lee/brit elders conducted in the 2nd part of the test results located here. Jim himself conducted that there is clearly a difference witha model and a real ufo.

www.youtube.com...

Not only that but in this video it reveales the whole part of the metal analysis. Meaning that before Dereks clip on his site cut off it did not say the part about the finding of the rare earth metal thulium.

periodic.lanl.gov...

the link above shows the price of thulium. Keep in mind that back in 1980's the metal was much more rare and the price would be slightly higher, possibly about 55,000$ in 1980's.

Derek, will you submit your photos to the same testing as what billy meier went through?

Another interesting point i would like to bring up. For the exposed cases or whatever taking into consideration that the US gov is strict about ufo documents and so on. But how is Bob lezard still alive? Among a few other things i would like to point out. Anyways this paragraph is a thought and doesnt mean to serve as an excuse to evade questions.

TerraX, again billy meier does not make much money. Since he is on disability his money is extremely tight and thus including feeding his family, he really does not have much available funds. Cant forget purchasing farm supplies also.

in many occasions, movie, contacts he made clear that he does not like being called a prophet. He would like to just be a teacher as he is just one of us.

i was looking at the IIG website of Marcel Vogel and has drawn a few questions and raising some eye brows.

Marcel Is a chemist, but i dont think you understand firstly about basic chemistry but what about marcels 2nd profession.

I like to point out that marcel vogel ALSO specializes in Luminescence and in Phosophor technology. If you look up what phosophor means its this.

Phosphors are transition metal compounds or rare earth compounds of various types.

In order to become a specialist in this area you would need a great deal of knowledge in crystaline structures of the metals with the technology.

Now i would like to quote a member in another forum.

"they keep saying that he couldn't have found Thulium using an Electron microscope. This I found confusing, because that is one of the ways metals are distinguished -- using a scanning electron microscope. All that is required is for the person viewing the results, to be able to recognize the crystaline structure, the colour, density etc...... of the metal, and visually they can say what is there."

Spectroscopy works different thus providing different results.

From what I can see, Vogel surely in his specialty was perfectly qualified to recognize metals/minerals found in the sample. That is one of the requirements I would think, to become a specialist!

Any search on the internet will show you that electron microscopy is commonly used for this.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by EffEcTiVe_UniT]

Originally posted by johnnyrobbo
I disagree Terrax completely.
Money is definately not a factor, research the free material.

I did. There's a FIGU webshop which generates revenue and if you become a member of the organisation you're expected to show up at the center performing tasks or pay an 'absence fee', there's also an anual contribution of a percentage of your income. It's in the statues of the FIGU website. Did you research the free material? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't make such a blatantly false statement. Money IS a factor.

It is most definately not about creating a new religion, it's more about ridiculing the belief systems(religions) and relying on your own thinking. No worshipping no praying just personal meditation to aid to monitor and control your own personal thoughts 24/7.

If it's about personal (spiritual) growth then why is Meier the focal point of the material? Did you really read his stuff? Sure, there are references to taking responsibility for your own actions but when it comes to 'who's the top dog' - 'who has all the wisdom', then you're back to Billy-boy.
Meier claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, and a host of other 'prophets' including Mohammed. Does that sound like taking a humble approach? If you read the material you'll see that Meier claims to be some evolved spirit from a high spiritual realm and that he 'descended' in order to help us. He was also a leader of ET races in the galaxy bringing order to chaos by force. When you read the material it leaves a solid impression that Meier is the alpha and omega. There's without a doubt a continious reminder in the material that Meier has an elevated status. You can ask yourself what the purpose of that is.
If it's not about creating a new religion, than why is their so much focus on religion? You can argue that Meier wants to get rid of (old) belief systems but I think that's half of the equasion. He wants to replace Christianity (and other religions) with his own belief system. Why else would he target them for being false yet augment them with his 'personal touch'? He's the prophet remember? The reincarnation of Christ. He found the original bible (TJ). Those are all attempts at creating a new religion with Meier as its leader.

So what it comes down to is always remain neutral positive in your thinking and remove anger, hate and revenge from your personality. I find it very difficult my friend and being an aussie I love my beer. Stay positive and monitor those thoughts, good luck

I've been neutral positive sofar. I could easily point out Meier's checkered past. He wasn't a sweetheart in his younger years. I'm not a religious guy but I think the Bible was correct in warning about false prophets. David Koresh, Jim Jones, Marshal Applewhite are all indications of that. Keep an eye out for more people like that. Good luck.

WOAH!!

He was also a leader of ET races in the galaxy bringing order to chaos by force. When you read the material it leaves a solid impression that Meier is the alpha and omega. There's without a doubt a continious reminder in the material that Meier has an elevated status.

Where in the hell did you read about him using force upon when he was a leader. And he doesnt concentrate on himself barely. He concentrates more on current events, your own thinking, the spiritual teachings and so on. Anything but himself.

I did. There's a FIGU webshop which generates revenue and if you become a member of the organisation you're expected to show up at the center performing tasks or pay an 'absence fee', there's also an anual contribution of a percentage of your income. It's in the statues of the FIGU website. Did you research the free material? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't make such a blatantly false statement. Money IS a factor.

If billy was in it for the money wouldnt he be stinkin rich? No he isnt, because if he was and when he file his taxes he would immediately lose his disability which he still is on to this day. And most certainly the core member groups isnt rich because if they were they wouldnt have ordinary jobs. The absence fee is just stupid. They dont make you pay because you missed a meeting. You only pay for core member groups and even then its not even expensive. Plus you get the burden of doing extrenious work when your a core member. So its a full time job if your a core member. And all the money they obtain is put towards making books for billy to publish and to sell for dirt cheap to help cover the remaining manufacturing costs. They also have rules in the house when you stay. They politely ask you, if you would like to work please remember that we cannot compensate you for your work and you accept that you work on your own free will. Ofcourse im paraphrasing that. So that rules out the money issue.

TerraX you clearly do NOT read my past posts. Let me get aq quote straight from billy meier on what he thinks about god.

"God is an imaginary figure which is been created by human beings so they don't have to bear responsibility themselves, rather they can shift it unto a diety, but god in of it self is nothing other then a title for a human being who is very highly evolved. God is therefor not what human beings wrongly assume that he is the creator, the creator of life, the creator of the universe of space. God is nothing other then a title via Allah or Shiva etc...The human being always tries to set a power above themself and call it God. God or this power is suppose to be responsible for him and everything and anything he says, does, thinks and feels and so forth and for his fate....."

theres more ofcourse but it talkes about responsibility. This was taken from Silent Revolution of Truth.

In Billys story, you just praise creation or nature for a better word. He doesnt like being praised at all. So how can you say that he wants a new religion. If you say cult go read my past post about the definition of a cult. It explains in clear english to whata cult is with all the possible meanings of it.

I feel i need to repeat this again just so you can get it in. Billy Meier Does Not Want To Be A God, Nor Praised Like One. He Merely Asks You To Think And To Admire The Beauty Of Mother Earth. Tell me how is thata religion. Because like i said before if thats the case, wouldnt spirituality be considered a religion in your books?? If that was the case you would see various sites group spirituality with religion. But they dont because they have the common sense to know that religion needs a head spirituality does not have a head so you can bow/pray to.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by EffEcTiVe_UniT]