Why I dont buy the "tea party" protests

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by mental modulator
And it is a simple equation - bad for DEMS = good for GOP

In this case, it is bad for both. Many people are fed up with both parties, and if the country keeps going down the path it's on many members of congress aren't going to be in office after the next election.

Your response didn't really answer my question though.

According to what I have observed - the GOP is trying to highjack the movement ( a conservative one) in order to redirect angry voters to the conservative party ( that can win a general election)

When you see the neoconservative windbags talking about Liberty, taxes, and even Ron Paul in a good light you know something is a miss.

The neocons are a dying brand so they are trying to hijacked some of the steam out of the Campaign for Liberty. It was somewhat successful for them.

They will not be able to keep it up. They are posers and hijackers not real Liberty lovers. They are statist and Police state apologist and war mongers still. In SC one of the Republican congress critters that voted for the stimulus package was booed mercilessly his entire speech.

Personal income taxation is only required in this nation because we have been suckered into an ever growing state that requires more and more from its citizens to keep getting bigger and bigger.

You can not spend your way out of debt. We as citizens know this but our government does not listen to us when we say enough of these bailouts and criminal spending money that we do not have by creating it out of thin air and forcing the worst tax of all on us and that is the tax of inflation which is about to explode with this sudden added trillions to the economy. People have a right to think this is insane policy.

We have to slash the federal and state budgets and they have to tighten their budgets until they hurt. Roll back the growth of government instead of growing the debt even further. Bring our troops home from the 160 or so countries where they are stationed. End wasteful wars of empire. Rethink entitlement commitments so that they make economic sense. Free the income of Americans so they can put more money into the local economies where they live and not sending it to Washington so that the banksters can loot the treasury.

[edit on 4/21/2009 by UFOTECH]

reply to post by mental modulator


You keep saying they are trying to hi-jack it, but have yet to provide anything that substantiates that aside from opinion. Where is the proof? The GOP didn't organize these protests, they didn't gather people up to go to them. A few republicans speaking at a few events doesn't equate with a hi-jacking. There were plenty of democrats and independents that spoke too. Does that make it a democratic hi-jacking? Or an independent hi-jacking?

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Maybe you missed it. I'll repost my question.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
But its no secret the majority of those at the protests are posers, are constitutional hypocrites. They have their own personal agendas, and they are using your movement as fuel for the GOP.

According to who?

According to fox news and the bushies in attendence there. According to the bush politicians who spoke there. How about the 4000 real Paulers who came out in 07' and the 08' number of Paulers the same in Texas last year feb? against the fed and Bush? How about the 20,000 for Ron Pauls convention, the supporters for the libetarian party which numbered a mere 400 mid last year? And now all of sudden the number shoots up to 300,000 nation wide? With fox in attendance and bush politicians giving a damn and speaking?

You wanna hear what Glen Beck said about those very rallies again?


How bout hannity?


They never gave a damn until a democrat came in. Now please Jenna tell your fellow tea party folks to stop playing costume party. It really aint foolin anybody.

Originally posted by UFOTECH
When you see the neoconservative windbags talking about Liberty, taxes, and even Ron Paul in a good light you know something is a miss.

Its sickening aint it? These posers aint foolin anybody but their own. Paulers who are just desperate for numbers and denying the reality of this hijacking aint doing a good deed for what they proclaim to stand for.

The neocons are a dying brand so they are trying to hijacked some of the steam out of the Campaign for Liberty. It was somewhat successful for them.

I disagree on that, if anything those protests on April 15th brought less credibility to this new conservative movement. They did themselves a disfavour walking hand in hand with fox news and former bushies with unconstitutional histories, with the very voters who called to shut Paulers out and anybody else who spoke out against the previous neoconservative administration. Now they are assuring us all fox wont be attendin, but the damage has been done. If I was a Pauler Id reconsider who my friends are and who I disagree with, who has the agenda.

They will not be able to keep it up. They are posers and hijackers not real Liberty lovers. They are statist and Police state apologist and war mongers still. In SC one of the Republican congress critters that voted for the stimulus package was booed mercilessly his entire speech.

Personal income taxation is only required in this nation because we have been suckered into an ever growing state that requires more and more from its citizens to keep getting bigger and bigger.

You can not spend your way out of debt. We as citizens know this but our government does not listen to us when we say enough of these bailouts and criminal spending money that we do not have by creating it out of thin air and forcing the worst tax of all on us and that is the tax of inflation which is about to explode with this sudden added trillions to the economy. People have a right to think this is insane policy.

We have to slash the federal and state budgets and they have to tighten their budgets until they hurt. Roll back the growth of government instead of growing the debt even further. Bring our troops home from the 160 or so countries where they are stationed. End wasteful wars of empire. Rethink entitlement commitments so that they make economic sense. Free the income of Americans so they can put more money into the local economies where they live and not sending it to Washington so that the banksters can loot the treasury.

[edit on 4/21/2009 by UFOTECH]

Now thats a true Pauler I would just love debating with. We may not be on the same grounds interms of the economy, but I well and truly agree with you regarding removing all US bases from the world... although any administration now wont give that up. I would like that to happen though.

Thankyou for been honest. Hopefully we can have a nice and clean debate and be upfront about where we stand.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
According to fox news and the bushies in attendence there.

Oh ok, so then you went to a protest and asked people if they were really Bush supporters right? That's how you know what anyone was saying at the protests. No? Well then you must have watched a live feed without commentary so you could hear what the speakers were saying right? No? You didn't go? You only saw the few clips they had on TV? Then again I ask, according to who.

With fox in attendance and bush politicians giving a damn and speaking?

Yeah FOX seized an opportunity to promote their coverage of something that the rest of the media outlets were ignoring. That's your proof? How is their promotion of their coverage any different than promoting coverage of a debate or an election? That's what media outlets do, they promote their coverage so people will watch.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by mental modulator

 

You keep saying they are trying to hi-jack it, but have yet to provide anything that substantiates that aside from opinion. Where is the proof? The GOP didn't organize these protests, they didn't gather people up to go to them. A few republicans speaking at a few events doesn't equate with a hi-jacking. There were plenty of democrats and independents that spoke too. Does that make it a democratic hi-jacking? Or an independent hi-jacking?

Yes opinion... The title of the OP is " Why I don't BUY the..."

Buy, believe, take at face value, convinced -- It is opinion based...

I can ask you WHERE is the proof that the protests have not been hi - jacked???

The reason I BELIEVE that the GOP is using the protests as a tool for their agenda,
I never said that every single protester is GOP did I???

I just find it funny that fox news who has a pro GOP agenda per the man himself


is championing many things that FOX helped garner support for in the past.

FISA, P.A, growth of government etc...

The FOX that used to be all about patriotism, but now it is ANTI GOV/US???

Its not hard to see FOX has an agenda - Murdochs and GOPs

Toss out FOX completely and I will be more willing to "buy" the concerns at face value



[edit on 21-4-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by mental modulator
Yes opinion... The title of the OP is " Why I don't BUY the..."

An opinion is a wholly different thing from knowledge of facts. You can believe whatever you want, but to try and claim that everyone, or even just the majority, of people who went to these are Bush supporters and act as though you have proof when you don't is completely different. If that is your opinion, fine state it as such. But don't try to claim it as a known fact when you have nothing to prove your belief.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by mental modulator
Yes opinion... The title of the OP is " Why I don't BUY the..."

An opinion is a wholly different thing from knowledge of facts. You can believe whatever you want, but to try and claim that everyone, or even just the majority, of people who went to these are Bush supporters and act as though you have proof when you don't is completely different. If that is your opinion, fine state it as such. But don't try to claim it as a known fact when you have nothing to prove your belief.

Well prove the contrary then - shut us all up already, you have nothing to prove your
belief.

Now do you?

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by mental modulator
Yes opinion... The title of the OP is " Why I don't BUY the..."

An opinion is a wholly different thing from knowledge of facts. You can believe whatever you want, but to try and claim that everyone, or even just the majority, of people who went to these are Bush supporters and act as though you have proof when you don't is completely different. If that is your opinion, fine state it as such. But don't try to claim it as a known fact when you have nothing to prove your belief.

By the way, ONCE again -" BUY" - in this context indicate OPINION - we have been trying to provide facts that have led us to our opinions...you don't seem to agree with them.

Once again this is a OPINION BASED THREAD if the english language is in play here - with facts that try to shed light on the OPINION... And for many the facts in concert with the opinion make for a believable OPINION if not factual once all the proof is tabulated.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by mental modulator]

reply to post by mental modulator


Unfortunately if you didn't bother to watch the live feed I don't know what to tell you. Had you cared to see what was really going on out at those tea parties rather than what MSM fed you about them, you might have a different opinion. Had you watched the clip of what happened after the CNN reporters disaster of an interview, you would have seen the woman talking about why she was there. (Here's a hint, it had nothing to do with being a republican or a democrat, and nothing to do with Ron Paul.) Had you paid attention to the number of people against the bailouts (300 to 1 I believe it was), you would know that people are fed up with the spending. I watched a live feed, I listened to what the people were saying. I took the time to hear it from them instead of what they put on the news.

Now I could go and hunt down videos for you to watch and articles for you to read written by people that were there, but frankly I'm not going to waste my time. I could go and hunt down every single person that attended one and parade them in front of you and you still wouldn't listen to what they were saying. If you really want to understand why people were out there protesting, educate yourself. Pay attention to what is going on in this country and find somewhere other than MSM to get your information. I can assure you the crap you get from CNN and MSNBC has nothing to do with why the people were actually out there.

EDIT: Just saw your second post. Yes it is an opinion based thread, which is why I can't for the life of me understand why you and Southern Guardian keep trying to play it off as a fact that everyone out there was a Bush supporter.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Jenna]

reply to post by Jenna

which is why I can't for the life of me understand why you and Southern Guardian keep trying to play it off as a fact that everyone out there was a Bush supporter.

You seem to be the only one that is interpreting what they are saying as such. The issue at hand here is that "Bushies" and Fox news are supporting this movement, which makes one question the legitimacy of the whole operation.

There is no doubt that the majority of the people involved were doing it because they believe it. That doesn't mean that the event wasn't hijacked by a more powerful group for purposes other than what the protesters intended.

reply to post by Jenna


For the love of god - the whole thing is an opinion -

I have stated many times that I believe that there are people who are there for the reasons you have stated, I BELIEVE THAT 100%.

I also know that fox news and the GOP wants to use the movement to hurt OBAMAS
standing and make the GOP look like a better option...

How many times do people on this thread have to repeat that???

I understand people are ANGRY ( an emotion - based upon an OPINION )

I have never once said that categorically speaking ALL the protesters are GOP impostures,,, never. But on the same token, NOT all the protesters care about the same things, MAYBE some are thinking PALIN 2012...

Like it or not the party that stands to gain the most is the GOP, they know it so they will
promote the actions and use it to their advantage - if you can't square with that you are either unreasonable or completely naive or combo meal.

GOP to protesters next stop JEB/PALIN 2012...

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Jenna

 

which is why I can't for the life of me understand why you and Southern Guardian keep trying to play it off as a fact that everyone out there was a Bush supporter.

You seem to be the only one that is interpreting what they are saying as such. The issue at hand here is that "Bushies" and Fox news are supporting this movement, which makes one question the legitimacy of the whole operation.

There is no doubt that the majority of the people involved were doing it because they believe it. That doesn't mean that the event wasn't hijacked by a more powerful group for purposes other than what the protesters intended.

You see this guy here...



He can say what I intended to convey with 1/10th the words - and he won't have a stroke doing it.

Thanks

reply to post by Karlhungis


Are you reading the same thread I am? I'm not the only one who has interpreted it this way. They claim the GOP has hi-jacked the tea parties, and the proof is that Fox covered them, republicans spoke at some of them and "bushies" were at them. Fox covers a lot of things and republicans speak at a lot of things, but somehow this is the only thing they are hi-jacking? Democrats and independents spoke at the tea parties too, but only republicans are hi-jacking it? People who attended the tea parties come from all ends of the political spectrum, but they are all "bushies"?

Let's say for a moment that Fox went beyond reporting on and into supporting the tea parties, and that "bushies" were falling all over themselves to get in on the tea parties, just for arguments sake. How exactly would that detract from the message of the people who were out there? They were out there to protest against congress serving their own ends instead of listening to what they people want. They were out there to protest the massive spending going on when we are already so far in debt we will likely not get it paid off in our lifetimes. They were out there saying both parties are responsible, not just one party but both. How is that message lessened by Fox or "bushies"?

Originally posted by mental modulator
I also know that fox news and the GOP wants to use the movement to hurt OBAMAS standing and make the GOP look like a better option..

Frankly it wouldn't take much to hurt Obama's standing in many people's eyes. The protests were not about Obama, however. A few people with signs and coverage by Fox doesn't equate with the whole thing being an anti-Obama pro-GOP rally.

Like it or not the party that stands to gain the most is the GOP, they know it so they will promote the actions and use it to their advantage - if you can't square with that you are either unreasonable or completely naive or combo meal.

Neither party stands to gain considering many protesters want people from both parties out of Congress. They are just as responsible for the mess we are currently in as the democrats, and many people realize that. Thus the protests.

And really, a combo meal? Is that some kind of insult?

GOP to protesters next stop JEB/PALIN 2012...

How on earth are you equating protests against spending and taxes with Jeb running for president?

Originally posted by Jenna
Oh ok, so then you went to a protest and asked people if they were really Bush supporters right? That's how you know what anyone was saying at the protests.

Didnt have to Jenna, it was evident from the vast majority of protestors holding the hands of fox and Bush politicians walking down middle america lane. The day they marched together was evident enough for me.

Yeah FOX seized an opportunity to promote their coverage of something that the rest of the media outlets were ignoring.

FOX siezed the opportunite to act as if they gave a damn about these tea parties under a new democratic administration. FOX never gave a damn last year and the video evidence I proved to you, coupled with angry Paulers chasing and putting down various fox news anchors last year, boy you fellas sure have short term memories dont you?

Your excuses for the GOP hijacking of the movement have worn out Jenna. Damn shame Paulers are allowing themselves to get fooled, all for the sake of numbers. The GOP aint no "revolution" of any sort, and will never be.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Didnt have to Jenna, it was evident from the vast majority of protestors holding the hands of fox and Bush politicians walking down middle america lane. The day they marched together was evident enough for me.

That was all you had to say. You have no proof of your claims, you're just pointing fingers at everyone because some of them might have supported Bush in the past.

Originally posted by Jenna
That was all you had to say. You have no proof of your claims,

Im the only one who is providing proof Jenna. You however have been so taken in by this little poser gathering on April 15th, and thats fine, deny.

you're just pointing fingers at everyone because some of them might have supported Bush in the past.

might? Im glad by the least your moving to the term "might", wasnt too long ago your key word here was "never".

I'm sure when all is said and done, we will have no doubt have found a scape goat.
Be it the...Muslims, Jews, Africans, Chinese, SARS, pig flu, avian flue, Bush I, Bush II, Obama, Palin, and lately The NWO. F**k man! the list could go for-godd**n-ever if i wanted it to. It is all but hardwired into the everyday American to blame anyone but themselves.

We sit around mailing tea-bags to Washington as if somehow that accomplishes anything more than a rise in demand for tea production which inevitably results in higher profits for ( insert tea company here ) which further results in a rise in stock prices for ( said company ). Samuel Adams would roll over in his f***ing grave today if he saw the shallow symbolism, falsely attributed I might add...that is our modern day libertarian tea party movement.

I am unsure if it's naivety or out and out stupidity that has brought us to this point in history. Either way ignorance is no excuse and if it's good enough for the American legal system, then it's good enough for me. So let me take time out to inform you what the Bost Tea Party was, and how pathetically insignificant you're tea party is. But for the record if the mass-media consuming population is any indication of our future in America then let me be the first one in line to tell you that we are totally f***ed.

On 16 December 1773, a gathering of Boston citizens led by patriot Samuel Adams disguised themselves as Mohawk Indians and boarded three British ships docked in the Boston Harbor in search of imported tea. These men, armed with axes and tomahawks, chopped open the tea trunks they found onboard and dumped almost 10,000 pounds (about 4,500 kilograms) of tea into the harbor. This action was taken by the colonists to show their distain at England's attempt to monopolize the tea market, forcing the colonists to buy their tea from the British East India Company. The Boston Tea Party is an important event in United States history as it marked the first show of violence by the colonists and cast the first cries for independence in the Boston area. England had already repealed many of the import taxes on the colonists, but it retained the tea tax to let the colonists know they were still subject to British rule. After the Tea party, England demanded that the Boston government pay for the tea, but the locals refused. As a result, British forces closed the Boston harbor for a period of time, further inciting cries for independence. ( www.wisegeek.com... )

Now I don't expect much-if-any of that to resonate with you people. With that said, it still completely mystifies me that you all feel that your being politicly active by destroying an item you had to purchase yourself. We are in a recession and here you are mailing something you bought, to someone who wont read it. Don't you think by now there is a universal office policy at all government agencies to throw away all letters even suspected of having something other than a letter in it.

If you want to make a point. Stop paying your bills. All of them. Stop going to work. Stop purchasing gas. For the love of god stop buying tea. At least then you would be preserving the ideals of the original tea party. Stop contributing to the system all together. Remember that you are a single cog in a very large and intricate machine. Individually you are totally insignificant at best. However if enough cogs stop moving the machine breaks down. We are a union of states and should treat like any other union, by going on a full blown national strike against citizenship and all that it currently entails.

I assure you that if the majority of americans refuse to work and purchase non essential consumer goods for just one week. All hell would break loose, the system would essentially go into cardiac arrest. However, there are repercussions to this and they will be swift and intimidating. But if we can outlast the first wave of heavy handedness buy our government, we can win this. Remember that all government agents are still paid employes, and without the majority contributing to the system companies will fold, stores will close. So the government can keep printing its fiat currency to pay the military but it will be useless as they will have nowhere to spend it. We have reached a point of either unifying as a country against tyranny, or we can sit back as history passes us by. Ether way, our generation will make it into the history books. We either save the nation, or watch it be destroyed from the inside. We are facilitating our own demise. I can't stand on the soapbox all alone. I need help. You all are that help. -j

**For the record it's 4am here so correcting any grammer at this point would be foolish as I have no intention of correcting it and don't really care. I wrote this on a whim partially out of anger but mostly out of boredom. So try you best to look passed the misuse of a comma or the obvious misspelling of words. I realize the article i chose isn't current, but the situation is, and this article was the first one i found on google. I might be asking to much here but it would be super if someone here had an opinion other than telling me any of the above mentioned things. mmmmkthnx. j