Smokers feeling abused as federal tax hike hits

Originally posted by jibeho
This new Tax Increase on the Poor and Middle Class should provide an economic boost to bootleggers and thieves. Hmmm... I wonder how long it will take for Urban Pirates to surface on the highways. They will target big rigs full of smokes and police escorts will have to accompany these trucks on their deliveries.

I guess Obama is creating jobs after all. "Pirate" the new career choice second only to "Windmill Rigger" on Monster.com.

If they're cheaper, sign me up. I trust the mafia more than government.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Oh i see people should have their rights taken away from them when they do something that YOU don't approve of, but if you approve of their actions (like breaking the law) then you feel that they're entitled to all kinds of rights.

Yes by all means start caring about the over 300 poisons in cigarettes, a good place to start would be for the government to make it illegal for the cigarette companies to put all the additives in cigarettes that they do. You don't see them doing that though do you ? No and why, because if they did that people wouldn't be addicted to the damn nicotine that they put in them and they would be able to stop and then who would the government tax the crap out off ?!

You don't need to care about anyone's health other than your own and your family's. And yes addiction is the correct word, most people can not stop because of the addiction, ask any doctor and they'll tell you that it's easier to break a herion addiction than it is an addiction to cigarettes.

And if you believe all this hype about it's for the good of the smoker, then why aren't they using the taxes from cigarettes to help smokers ? Why aren't they outlawing the additives, or outlawing cigarettes all together ? Because they don't give a rat's butt that's why, they only care about us, and non-smokers to the point that they don't lose any revenue. If they actually came up with legislation that would help solve the problem, like banning the additives i'd be all for it. But they won't do that because they'd lose money.

Why don't they use the taxes from cigarettes to do some research and find something that could really work to help people beat their addiction to cigarettes? Take the taxes from cigarettes and put in place a free program that actually works to help people stop? Because they don't care about our health anymore than you do, we just happen to be the "politically correct" whipping boy at present time.

Oh and your comment "you don't have to become an alcoholic" that was a very intelligent comment (sarcasm). The problem is not in having to smoke all the cigarettes in a pack before they go stale, it's in the fact that they put an addictive drug in them.

Representation in this matter, fair representation, is minimal at best.

A non-smoker may be a representative. Would they have any interest in
fairness to smokers ? Doubt it ! They're thinking of how best to squeeze
more money out of everybody.

So, if I choose to smoke, I pay higher taxes. If the extra taxes I pay goes
to fund Susie Wong's House of Pleasure, would some of you be upset ?

But if the extra taxes help fund programs for kids, that's alright ?
(So now, if we didn't smoke, those programs wouldn't get funded at all ?)

Isn't it about what you get too ?

If I get pleasure from smoking and you get your programs funded,
( by smokers ), don't we both have a vested interest ?

But no, that's not good enough for you is it ? Now you feel you have to
punish us because we're still doing something you've deemed to be
socially unacceptable. Not illegal mind you, just unacceptable right ?
So you screw us with more and more taxes ! Screw, screw, screw !

I ask you, are you non-smokers benefitting from us smokers ? Yes you
are. We're providing your funding that you can't seem to do yourself.

Are we benefitting from you nonsmokers ? Oh hell yes ! We're learning to
pay higher taxes, we're learning to put up with your discrimination, and
your cry-baby, mamsy-pamsy, back-stabbing, elitist attitudes.

Originally posted by sos37
Oh whatever. You can still go out and buy a pack or carton of your cancer sticks and smoke them in your own homes. What, are you mad because you can't go out in public and infect the rest of the population with your poison?

BTW, I quit smoking 6 months ago. So, stuff your "holier-than thou" attitude right up your arse. Kay?

Tell you what - you come up with a way to contain that smoke that your cig puts out and I'll be all over supporting smokers out in public places. Until then, anyone who argues that second-hand smoke isn't dangerous is just denying decades of research and accepted science.

Tell YOU what - you come up with the research that says that automobiles are healthier than cigs and I'll shut my mouth. Or that cosmetics are healthier than cigs.

So please, stop with the "oh, my poor lungs from you smokers" crap. Because it's not the smokers who are polluting the air, it's the automobiles.

Funny how we "bail out" GM who produces the most pollution our air could ever imagine, yet it's the smokers who are demonized and taxed to pay for GM's bail out?

As soon as you stop driving your death machine, I'll climb on board with your "smoking is unhealthy" tirade. Until then, I suggest you STFU.

So yeah, if that makes me a smoking nazi, then I'm damn proud of it, sir!

Keep up this slippery slope because sooner rather than later, it will come to bite you in your ass and they will heavily tax something YOU enjoy (like driving your own vehicle or wearing so much perfume you smell like a French Whore).

Will you "be proud" of that when it happens? You will only have yourself to blame at that point.

[edit on 4/2/2009 by Griff]

[edit on 4/2/2009 by Griff]

reply to post by SIEGE


The problem is, that the majority of the US actually believed that a Liberal Democrat would not raise taxes on them. He may not hit your paycheck through a visible deduction but he will certainly hit your wallet one way or another.

Cap and Trade will end up costing the nations taxpayers billions. You won't see the direct hit. You will just see the cost of goods skyrocket and you will see more companies moving operations overseas.

The new trade will begin...
online.wsj.com...

Originally posted by Shadow_Lord
We are not being taxed without representation. Every state has a voice in the government. Every county has a voice in the state. If those people are not speaking for the general public, it is that person failing to do their job (seems common...).

This is so wrong it's not even funny. I live in Washington DC. I pay taxes out my ass. Where do I get representation in Congress? I don't. That, my friend, is taxation without representation. Period.

Y'all just need to do a little "recon" !!!

Sure, go to 7/11 it'll be $7.00 a pop, the grocery store, well forget that. After getting off work having read this thread all day, I went to pick up a pack. I was dreading it, fear of what I'd be paying. I hit up a few places and sure enough $6.58. Threw my hands up and walked out. Store clerk looked like I wasn't the first.

Point being, I drove around a little bit and found a small liquor store, low and behold $5.35 !!! I asked the guy what was up ? he said besides cig-tax, nothing. He actually lowered what he previously charged to accomodate for the tax increase. Said he did'nt want to lose customers.

So be patient brothers and sisters, do a little research. It may not be as convenient anymore to just go pick up a pack, but you will find that the smaller operations may have compensated too.

Happy Hunting !!!

reply to post by Griff


Oh good one. Comparing cars to smoking cancer sticks. One is a means of transportation and the other is a useless and destructive habit.

Your argument might have merit if cars were exclusively driven for pleasure and enjoyment, but since they aren't and are some people's only means of getting to and from work, your point is null and void. Does smoking cigarettes have ANY use whatsoever? NO? Didn't think so. You can stick that where the sun doesn't shine, sir.

Still proud to be an anti-smoking nazi. And the slope I'm standing on is far from slippery at this end.

I found out CVS in cleveland has buy one get ones for 6.36, I was happy i didn't care about the tax then because I still got the 2 pack. =3

Of all the vices I indulged in my youth smoking is the one I regret most.

I quit three times.... all cold turkey... the first lasted 5 years... had a weak moment and started back up.
The second time lasted 3 years... same thing happened.
It has been over 10 years since I smoked my last cigarette and I know now not to succumb to temptation.

I used to bicycle all over the place... in fact when I moved back to Virginia I bicycled from Portland Maine to Charlottesville Va... now riding around the block is a struggle.

I have COPD now and on humid and/or pollen laden days its a struggle sometimes to breath and when I have a serious bout with it... walking across the room is a struggle and at its worst... I need a nebulizer and steriod shots (and sometimes antibiotics) to stablize my breathing... and I am still in the early stages. At least there are no traces of cancer... so far.

You have all the right in the world to smoke but if you continue you're an idiot... plain and simple... and that is not even taking into consideration second hand smoke.

I have seen fools up at the local VA hospital pulling an oxygen tank behind them with a hose up their nostrials to breath and a cigarette in their mouths... its a wonder they don't sponteneously combust.

So they feel abused by the tax increase on them... all I can say is poor baby. You won't get any sympathy from me on this... if I could do it over I would have never picked up my first one.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by grover]

reply to post by Griff


Hey Griff, since you've proven to be hugely ignorant on the whole topic, I'm going to do you a great favor and educate you.

Since you brought up autos and called them "death machines" and compared them to cigs let's take a look at the two, shall we?

USA Today says that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's estimate show that in 2007 from January trhough October some 34,502 people dies in auto accidents. There are probably even fewer each year that die from cancer-related issues caused by car exhaust in the air.

www.usatoday.com...

So now let's take a look at smoking. The Center for Disease Control says that annually, smoking-related-deaths claim 440,000 lives. That's about 36,600 per month - more people than dies in a car accident each year not including the two holiday months.

www.wrongdiagnosis.com...

In addition, smoking-related deaths cost the United States $92 BILLION each year and total costs, including health care are more than $167 BILLION annually.

usgovinfo.about.com...

With costs like that, you honestly think the non-smoking middle class taxpayer doesn't foot the bill for some of those hundreds of billions? All because SOME smokers are selfish enough not to want to quit a destructive habit??? I say Some smokers because I know full well that cigarettes are engineered by the smoking companies to be as addictive as possible. Some aren't strong enough to break the habit without help. Others simply don't want to because they don't like being told what they can and cannot do, which is where I suspect your anger to be coming from.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by larphillips


yes its expensive, but hey at least its not illegal like marijuana...40 dollars for a carton is dirt cheap if you wanna compare how much marijuana is...second hand smoke lies? its not a lie how bad it is for you...if you really want to get into lies marijuana is teeming beyond capacity with them.... if its too expensive for you then just quit, whether it be marijuana, smoking, or even coffee none of these are good for you, they may make you feel good, but are not beneficial to your health, then again, alot of things are bad for you and your gonna die someday!

eh whatever, it may suck but imagine how much it sucks for someone in jail for mary jane.

reply to post by grover


I understand what you are saying here but the real point is, and I think it has been mentioned here already, is that the tax is not justified. I don't smoke and I'm quite sure the people who do would agree that it's probably not the best thing for them. The point is it's they are being taxed for doing it.

The taxes keep on coming and sooner or later it is going to affect everybody no matter what you do or don't do. There will be a tax for swimming, breathing, there will probably end up being a tax for using sidewalks so they can be re-built or plowed in the winter. The taxes will never end as long as people support them simply because it doesn't affect them currently.

We should all be together on this as if we sit by and do nothing it eventually will catch up with us all and we will be left sitting around wondering how it happened.

reply to post by sos37

One is a means of transportation and the other is a useless and destructive habit.

It's also an addiction and quite frankly i've struggleed with it for years.

Why should someone benefit from my addiction? Why am I being taxed for my addiction?

If it's so horrible..why isn't it banned completely?

This is a poor man's tax.

Of course this won't matter to nonsmokers. They will only complain when they are hit with their own "concentrated" tax.

A TAX on smokers should only go back to help stop their addiction.


It looks like we are evil no matter what though right? If you smoke you are giving people second hand smoke...if you don't smoke then you aren't saving the children.

Maybe they'll ring up people who quit on for child abuse charges.

reply to post by mkross1983


I don't buy it.

Sin taxes have been around forever and if the high price of cigarettes prevents one kid from starting great. If it causes one adult to quit wonderful...

The tobacco companies have been pushing tobacco like crack dealers for ages now...

I wouldn't shed one tear if they went out of business.

I don't want to see it made illegal... it wouldn't work any better than the war on drugs or prohibition but I wouldn't mind seeing it stopped being produced commerically... if you wanted to smoke you'd have to grow your own.

Nicotine is nasty crap... it's a deadly poison literally and is used in insecticides and is suspected in the decline of bees. It poisons the soil its grown in or sprayed on... I could go on but I am not.

reply to post by grover


I'm not disagreeing with you that it's bad. I'm saying that taxing it simply for the sake of taxing it is wrong. They will continue taxing everything they can until we stop them and if we don't something you enjoy doing or are addicted to will become taxed.

It's only a matter of time. If you like hamburgers and the FDA says they are horribly bad and tax them would you support it? What about music? What about soda or tea ( :p that one's already been done). My point is, eventually you will be upset about a tax if you are not already. Maybe not this particular tax but there will be one.

Think of all the things you pay for already. Fire permits, building permits, car registration, ,boat permits, fishing permits, death tax, federal state and local tax, sales tax, on and on it goes. It will never end until we end it.

You will become affected by it sooner or later.

Originally posted by daersoulkeeper
reply to post by larphillips

 

yes its expensive, but hey at least its not illegal like marijuana...40 dollars for a carton is dirt cheap if you wanna compare how much marijuana is...second hand smoke lies? its not a lie how bad it is for you...if you really want to get into lies marijuana is teeming beyond capacity with them.... if its too expensive for you then just quit, whether it be marijuana, smoking, or even coffee none of these are good for you, they may make you feel good, but are not beneficial to your health, then again, alot of things are bad for you and your gonna die someday!

eh whatever, it may suck but imagine how much it sucks for someone in jail for mary jane.

$40 a carton IS dirt cheap... so much so, that you'll be hard pressed to find that price on a name-brand anywhere in this country after the tax increase.

And bringing marijuana into the conversation is more a derail than anything and not a good comparison. Marijuana is illegal. Do I agree with its prohibition? No, I do not. I agree that most negative reports of the weed are lies designed to disinform the masses and confuse the truth in order to pass or maintain an agenda that robs us of our freedoms. In that regard, the same can be said for the lies surrounding cigarettes.

The point isn't "if it's too expensive, just quit." The point is that the taxation is unjust, it unfairly burdens the poor, and that government greed (local, state, and federal) have created a huge monster that feeds on these taxes. They are very close to closing that revenue valve... and when they do, they will not allow the flow of money to decrease. They WILL find some other place to get it from.

As others have said on here, the anti-smoking crowd can crow and bully and feel superior all they want, but someday soon the tax monster is going to eat something that they DO care about. By then, any satisfaction had by saying things like "watch what you wish for..." and "I told you so..." will be lost by the misery of losing 60+% of your wages to tax after tax after tax.

By then, any satisfaction had by saying things like "watch what you wish for..." and "I told you so..." will be lost by the misery of losing 60+% of your wages to tax after tax after tax.

I agree with you and I think we're half way to 60% already!

Originally posted by sos37

Ironies in your post:

1. If you're poor, then why are you spending money feeding a habit like smoking and not using that to feed yourself or your family? If you have extra money left over after your bills are paid then you aren't poor.

2. If you're poor and you insist on smoking, and there's absolutely no argument for the fact that cigarettes are bad for you, then why should the rest of the nation have to foot the bill (universal health care) for YOUR health care when the need arises and you can't pay it?

Since when is it your responsibility, or right to question what people do with their money? You're definition of being poor is just that, you're definition.

In case you haven't noticed the rest of the nation doesn't have to foot the bill, as we do NOT have universal health care in this country. Nobody has to foot the bill for smokers health care except for smokers, if the need arises they can foot the bill with the enormous amount of taxes that smokers pay.

Why should smokers have to foot the bill for the healthcare of OTHER people's children? You believe that "the nation" shouldn't have to pay for smokers healthcare (which i agree with), but you think it's fine to fine to force smokers to pay for healthcare for children that are not theirs, what hypocracy

Originally posted by chise61
Since when is it your responsibility, or right to question what people do with their money? You're definition of being poor is just that, you're definition.

In case you haven't noticed the rest of the nation doesn't have to foot the bill, as we do NOT have universal health care in this country. Nobody has to foot the bill for smokers health care except for smokers, if the need arises they can foot the bill with the enormous amount of taxes that smokers pay.

Why should smokers have to foot the bill for the healthcare of OTHER people's children? You believe that "the nation" shouldn't have to pay for smokers healthcare (which i agree with), but you think it's fine to fine to force smokers to pay for healthcare for children that are not theirs, what hypocracy

damn thats a good point. But I just ordered an E-cig so ill be saving a ton of money and no second hand smoke. Ill still get my nicotine, and they can have their air. See it can be a win win. and if the government #s up relations with china then imma be po'd. Because its a product of china. They already have a # ton in Japan

[edit on 2/4/2009 by SemperParatusRJCC]