Smokers feeling abused as federal tax hike hits

reply to post by SJE98


I would like to reply to this post by saying that I honestly do not think that President Obama was actually stupid enough to think that people would keep buying cigarettes as the price goes up. Before he raised the tax they were expensive any way. Not that I smoke, but I do try to keep up with as much as I can that goes on in the world, I would rather be informed than left in the ignorant dust. But back to my point... they raised the prices on gas and what happened? People got fed up and stopped buying as much gas, this is just on of the many things that led to our economic downfall. And started what..... four years ago? Five years ago??? Do you really think that after seeing that, that he would actually think that by raising the taxes on cigarettes that people would still buy them? Come on..... seriously? Plus Obama's not that good of a person, he'd rather blow all of the tax payer's money on superfluous things we don't need, you know, the complete opposite of what he said he would do?

-Risingsun

in canada cigs are 13 dollars a pack and about 91 dollars a carton
cig makers sell the pack of cigs to the government for a 1.31 a pack
and that includes there profit then the government slaps another 11.70 on the price its insane

and to think that cigarette companies can still do all that advertising and promoting on that 1.31 less what it actually costs to make

the government puts a x 20 tax on it does absolutely nothing and just stockpiles all that cash

the actual amount of money they make off smoking is staggering

Originally posted by RisingSun
reply to post by larphillips

 

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you and tell you that you are a very ignorant person. First of all, whether you are smoking pot, salvia, tobacco, hookah fruit or tobacco or any thing else in the entire world, you are putting yourself at risk for at least cancer because of the carbon monoxide gas that is released from the smoke, and yes second hand smoke is worse than first hand smoke because not only does it have carbon monoxide gas from the smoke, but it also has carbon dioxide gas from the smoke being exhaled from the lungs. If you're going to criticize people you may want to study on the topic first so you can avoid looking like a complete idiot. You're just another person making up excuses for the wrongful things you do. Get over yourself.

-Risingsun

and......do you realize that you just claimed that our breathing, even without smoking is dangerous to your health with this???

ya know, there's alot of homeless children out there thanks to our fine bankers and such and their great failure of a get rich scheme.....

hey I know, lets install a monitor on everyone and tax them 3 cents for every exhale!!! thise poor children need a home!!! there's alot of hungry children out there also...ummm....wonder....what can we tax to help them??? and then....ya know, there's some poor children out there that are being deprived of the internet...just think of it, all the other children just so much more informed, able to do their research online. any child out there that doesn't have internet are very disadvantaged in today's world!!! umm....what should we tax???
actuallly, that last one, if done right would save us a load of money.....just switch our school systems over to being mostly online with a few days of classroom attendance for testing and such....but, na.....taxing people is just too much fun!!!

by the way, your car gives out more carbon monoxide gas than 50 chain smokers lock in a small room for hours!!!

just saying, before you go after that splinter in my eye.....you might want to take that beam out of your own!!!

[edit on 2-4-2009 by dawnstar]

[edit on 2-4-2009 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by RisingSun
reply to post by larphillips

 

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you and tell you that you are a very ignorant person. First of all, whether you are smoking pot, salvia, tobacco, hookah fruit or tobacco or any thing else in the entire world, you are putting yourself at risk for at least cancer because of the carbon monoxide gas that is released from the smoke, and yes second hand smoke is worse than first hand smoke because not only does it have carbon monoxide gas from the smoke, but it also has carbon dioxide gas from the smoke being exhaled from the lungs. If you're going to criticize people you may want to study on the topic first so you can avoid looking like a complete idiot. You're just another person making up excuses for the wrongful things you do. Get over yourself.

-Risingsun

"ignorant" "idiot" "get over yourself."

Wow, "Risingsun," you're funny. Nothing is funnier than a totally uninformed person who believes the propoganda fed to them, and then spews that, as well as even more ridiculous examples of their lack of true knowledge, at a complete stranger on the internet in some sad attempt at an attack.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong. I know my facts. Please know yours.

Also note that I said in my first post that I'm not a smoker.

I slagged through this thread. It's hard, to constantly read that because I smoke I am, basically, the Devil incarnate. But I won't get into that argument right now.

What I have been wondering lately, is would it be more acceptable to be a heroin junkie? At least I could claim addiction, a word I hate but that's for another day. Doesn't seem to work with cigarettes since, and I know little about the e-cigs - but there's no inexpensive treatment to quit besides cold turkey and that's a bitch.

Anyway, I thought I had a choice in how I lived my life. Seems I was wrong.If I go out in public, I shan't talk to anyone because I'm a kook, or better yet, a terrorist, and if I smoke then they will probably turn up with one of those vans like they have in China and just disappear me. Lethal injection on the spot. That should make the non-smokers happy.

At least I can still smoke in my house. For now.

Originally posted by RisingSun

and yes second hand smoke is worse than first hand smoke because not only does it have carbon monoxide gas from the smoke, but it also has carbon dioxide gas from the smoke being exhaled from the lungs.

-Risingsun

Do you perchance have a link to where you are reading this supposed information?

I have a link of my own...

Carbon Dioxide

Carbon dioxide (chemical formula: CO2) is a chemical compound composed of two oxygen atoms covalently bonded to a single carbon atom. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state.

Within the atmosphere it is currently at a globally averaged concentration of approximately 387 ppm by volume. Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide fluctuate slightly with the change of the seasons, driven primarily by seasonal plant growth in the Northern Hemisphere. Concentrations of carbon dioxide fall during the northern spring and summer as plants consume the gas, and rise during the northern autumn and winter as plants go dormant, die and decay. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas as it transmits visible light but absorbs strongly in the infrared and near-infrared.

Carbon dioxide is used by plants during photosynthesis to make sugars which may either be consumed again in respiration or used as the raw material to produce polysaccharides such as starch and cellulose, proteins and the wide variety of other organic compounds required for plant growth and development. It is produced during respiration by plants, and by all animals, fungi and microorganisms that depend on living and decaying plants for food, either directly or indirectly. It is, therefore, a major component of the carbon cycle. Carbon dioxide is generated as a by-product of the combustion of fossil fuels or the burning of vegetable matter, among other chemical processes. Large amounts of carbon dioxide are emitted from volcanoes and other geothermal processes such as hot springs and geysers and by the dissolution of carbonates in crustal rocks.

So, RisingSun, could you please fill us all in on exactly why and how Carbon Dioxide being mixed and expelled from our lungs is dangerous to other human's?

If you're going to criticize people you may want to study on the topic first so you can avoid looking like a complete idiot.

****hands RisingSun a mirror****

[edit on 2/4/2009 by Kryties]

Ok I understand that smoking is bad for your health blah blah blah. But hey isn't eating fast food bad for your health, are you not risking your life when riding a motor bike relative to riding in a car? When does it stop? Where is the limit?

I don't know for sure but I would guess that more people die every day from bad eating habits than from smoking - you don't see a hike in taxing for McDonalds though do you. Now i am not a fan of smoking or bad food (although I have done both and am certain to do both again) but I feel there has to be a broader control on 'Bad' things or none at all.

It is unfair for the fat lady stuffing her face with burgers to criticize people for smoking, it's yet another example of the government persuading people that can't think to follow their rhetoric blindly.

No i am not a smoker but yes I do eat bad sometimes. Cheers

Originally posted by deltaalphanovember
reply to post by skeptic1

 

I started smoking (vaping) e-cigarettes two weeks ago and haven't picked up a normal cigarette since. I get all my nicotine requirements, I vape at my desk or in meetings and nobody is the wiser.

I can smell, taste and breathe again - really getting the benefits of smoking without the side effects.

In fact I am getting so much interest I managed to get my supplier to sell to me at cost so that I can sell to everyone in my social circles who is interested. It will pay for my e-cigarette habit at the very least so I am very happy!

Benefits. Of. Smoking. And you then become the legal drug dealer on the block.. j/k

I guess you guys are lucky this is not one of those 'illegal' mind/mood altering drugs.

And that *IS* the reason people smoke tobacco. Mood altering. Whether it's a calmative or just to get that kick while you're drinking. A mood/mind altering drug.

Even discussion of personal usage is not hindered in public. In lieu of your new taxation laws (Which I might add, a carton of smokes here costs already over $30 AUD) everyone is decreeing it a personal right beyond the scope of what the law should curtail.

I just wish the same support was given to the other people who imbibe another smokable plant, who also campaign about the benefits of smoking it.

Yet we're demonized as criminals and ostracized in public as a menace. Often by the very same proponents of freedom to smoke ciggys.

I remember someone equating a person who smokes that stuff as being the same as a rapist. Insanity. *waves at soulsby from usenet circa '94"

Anyway, nuff of me. Time for a moselle.

Good luck to you all, As a non-smoker of anything nowadays I do get what you're feeling. Been feeling it for the last 25 or so years, on another level.. Moreso now on a moral level than a legal one.

Originally posted by Kryties

Oh and PS: Quit smoking it's bad for you

It's every human's right to do what they want with their own bodies. I know it has the potential to be bad for me, it's not like I am blind to the billions of dollars spent telling me this, I could just care less.

I don't think most people with legal status on their side agree with you there, Kyrties.

I do however.

Originally posted by wantsome
I'm mad as hell that I'm forced to do it but theres nothing any of us can do about it. I'm down right psychoticaly mad about it. I F-N hate this country I hope the next terrorist attack hits Washington. I want to see politicians burn.

Anyone who wishes people to die over money spent on a smoking habit or addiction needs to reevaluate things.

You actually wish people would die in fire over cigarettes? A child's parent burned to death is a fair trade for you huh? You should spend some time with the families of the people killed in the 9/11 attacks and express how much hope you have for another terrorist attack so; you can save money on your precious cigarettes, which clearly have more value to you than human life.

You don't like this country, then leave. Go to another country and smoke there. Live (and die) by their laws. America would be a better place without someone who hopes that people get killed over cigarettes and money. Imagine a country where the citizens didn't get psychotically mad about the price of something? Lucky for you, you do live in a country with free speech, so you don't need to fear jail time over hoping government officials die.

Be ironic if tobacco tax protesters in Washington were the victims of a terrorist attack. Then you could sit at home, watch the news and cheer on the terrorists as people you know die.

You don't like the tax? Fine. Don't pay it. It is not required by law to pay it, just don't buy the product. Or better yet, leave the country. Go live in a country where you can just go kill someone, and take their cigarettes and feel better about it.

reply to post by Shadow_Lord


Dont bring 9/11 into this. My Aunt died alright. Now im not saying its right that he had to go on and say that the politicians should burn. But in a sense they will. There will be no summerland for them. they will be sent to the deepest core of hell itself.

But like you said Freedom of speech. Then he should be able to say whatever he wants without you contradicting him and hacking at his words trying to make what hes saying 50 times worse.

So chill out, and calm down.

I dont smoke at all so I really dont have a dog in the fight but Ill say this....

All drugs should be legalized. Prohibition does not work. People have a right to choose what they want to do with their own bodies.

With that being said government has the right to tax products that are either manufactured or imported here in the states. They jack up prices and yet you guys still choose to smoke.

With that being said I dont see why we cant tax more things like breast enlargments, botox, certain make ups and crap like that. I mean it really is a double standard....

Originally posted by SemperParatusRJCC

 

But like you said Freedom of speech. Then he should be able to say whatever he wants without you contradicting him and hacking at his words trying to make what hes saying 50 times worse.

So chill out, and calm down.

I agree, anyone should be able to say whatever they want; as long as it falls under Freedom of Speech. However, the statement that was said "hoped for politicians to burn" ,and hope for a terrorist attack on Washington DC. That statement falls under Washington DC laws, and could be read as a death threat on a government official. No longer free speech.

I understand being upset over paying extra for something. But to even say something like harming a person over it, is just wrong. At least to me it is. Anyone can disagree with that thought process, but it is up to law officials to say if a law was broken or not.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by sos37
You haven't seen anything yet when the government is controlling the pursestrings on your healthcare - they'll start telling you what you can and cannot eat, what you can and cannot drink, what you can and cannot wear because THEY are now footing the bill for your health. Don't you get it? The government owns you at that point.

Obviously without universal healthcare they are already doing so. Or did you forget where, when and to how much extent people are allowed to smoke now? Thanks to smoking nazis like you. Good job.

Oh whatever. You can still go out and buy a pack or carton of your cancer sticks and smoke them in your own homes. What, are you mad because you can't go out in public and infect the rest of the population with your poison?

Tell you what - you come up with a way to contain that smoke that your cig puts out and I'll be all over supporting smokers out in public places. Until then, anyone who argues that second-hand smoke isn't dangerous is just denying decades of research and accepted science.

So yeah, if that makes me a smoking nazi, then I'm damn proud of it, sir!

Originally posted by SJE98

This is really a bad time to be applying a tax like this. The Government thinks that smoker will continue to smoke and feed the tax. I smoke, and I’m quitting because of the high cost. I guess the Government better re-think there revenue take on this tax it will be less than half that’s for sure. So you really think all this tax is going to children’s health care. I think not. Some politician will raid that for something else and the fed-bank will end up with the cigarette sin tax money in the end.
I won’t be surprised if the tobacco companies will be allowed to start advertising again. The Government is going to have to find a way to keep milking the Tobacco cash cow somehow; with all the smokers quitting. I’m sure the drug cartels will be adding cartons of smokes to their inventory lists soon. I bet they get better sales than crack. Look for the Cig wars coming to a border near you soon.
And just to think Obama thought I was going to spend this money I saved from the cigarettes at Best Buy, maybe a trip to Las Vegas. I think not…
I think I’ll buy me a that new 45 caliber with a pallet of ammo with the money I will be saving. Heck I think I’ll also buy a nice to rifle with a night vision scope to go with it. Maybe just, maybe.. I can swing just enough for that nice looking Mossberg Shotgun too.

Joke all you want, but during the campaigns when conservatives like myself tried to tell people on ATS that Obama would increase taxes, no one and I mean NO ONE wanted to listen.

So all of you who smoke AND voted for Obama - you have absolutely no reason to complain. You were warned well ahead of time that this man would increase taxes from income to food to things like cigarettes and cigars, etc. It is historically accurate that Democrats in office RAISE taxes on just about everything - but NOOOOOOO you didn't want to listen. You went with the mainstream media and the "vote for Obama because it's the cool thing to do". Well, I hope you think paying through the nose in taxes to satisfy your habit is also the cool thing to do. This is only the beginning of this man's administration. The real taxes haven't even begun yet.

Originally posted by Shadow_Lord

I agree, anyone should be able to say whatever they want; as long as it falls under Freedom of Speech. However, the statement that was said "hoped for politicians to burn" ,and hope for a terrorist attack on Washington DC. That statement falls under Washington DC laws, and could be read as a death threat on a government official. No longer free speech.

I understand being upset over paying extra for something. But to even say something like harming a person over it, is just wrong. At least to me it is. Anyone can disagree with that thought process, but it is up to law officials to say if a law was broken or not.

But he didnt say he was going to harm them he was wishing them harm. Now thats not a death threat in anycase.
Unless he had said "I will blow their asses up" then its perfectly fine.

But true you're right to a point.it may have been wrong to say. but not illegal. Taxation without representation. now thats illegal and immoral.

reply to post by SemperParatusRJCC


the key words were "I want to see politicians burn".

We are not being taxed without representation. Every state has a voice in the government. Every county has a voice in the state. If those people are not speaking for the general public, it is that person failing to do their job (seems common...).

Now being fairly taxed? Uhh, ok dunno... I am ok with taxing cigarettes, but to that extent? Seems too high.

-bows out- You got me there. but I was never one for the states having their own government anyhow. they # us up worse than DC. This tax is just getting to be a little much.

This new Tax Increase on the Poor and Middle Class should provide an economic boost to bootleggers and thieves. Hmmm... I wonder how long it will take for Urban Pirates to surface on the highways. They will target big rigs full of smokes and police escorts will have to accompany these trucks on their deliveries.

I guess Obama is creating jobs after all. "Pirate" the new career choice second only to "Windmill Rigger" on Monster.com.

The tobacco tax hikes, which President Obama signed into law in February, will be used to finance an expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, or SCHIP. The expansion, which will cost $35 million over five years, is expected to secure federally funded health care for an additional 4 million children.

(visit the link for the full news article)



I fund peoples kids insurance every time I light up a cigarette. So please if the non smokers could stop their fake coughs and whining please. If people love the children they should now be offering to light my cigarette. (That is ofcourse if you believe in social medicine.)



[edit on 2-4-2009 by wiredamerican]