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Not everything is black and white this or that hate to tell you, the world is generally painted in shades of grey. So of course I state that under certain circumstances it is murder.
It is a life form
Though I wouldn't mind you proving me wrong it should be noted.
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by riley
Coming from a guy that states women can get fired for being pregnant in this age of labor laws and that social programs don't help. Enjoy your disengenious retreat though.
LOL, nice attempt at wise but that doesn’t make abortion equal murder. By the way many pro-life people only see abortion through black and white eyes so I don’t think you have room to argue that.
We kill millions of life forms every year. We kill children in wars that we pay for; we kill animals for food and do a multitude of testing on them for our convenience. I don’t assume if you agree with this but I’d hate to ask because you aren’t good at answering questions. Way back in this thread I asked if you ever took in or planned to take in the countless children that already need homes, you ignored me, and I offered to get you info on this issue (what unwanted children go through). You never replied to all of the studies I posted. I can understand if you feel a potential human is in a different category, but that doesn’t wipe away the fact that it is not a human being, even if you disregard a basic definition of murder. That doesn’t change that there is no human involved, only a potential.
Geez, if scientific facts and actual definitions don’t prove you wrong then what will? What could I possibly produce that would ever make you second guess your beliefs?
And I think right and wrong are getting thrown around too much, and I apologize for using the terms too often. Just like you stated everything is grey. Everything is subjective. And honestly I don’t know why I spend so much time discussing this issue when every abortion measure I’ve supported has been successful in my state. Or with so many people favoring abortion. I guess I just want the other side to see my point of view, but at the end of the day I’m thankful their morality (on this issue) is not a legal reality.
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by riley
One word: adoption.
This is the seond line, aint it grand?
Yeah I hear there's a real high demand for crack babies.
It's also not like 9 months of pregnancy, painful childbirth, giving up a newborn baby and then having to pay thousands of dollars for the medical bills would be a very hard thing to do.. not to mention the part where she can't actually work to support herself to pay for food and rent (she can forget about higher education). Most people call that the cycle of poverty but to pro-lifers it's called "just a little bit of inconvenience" to try make it sound like a simple decision because it's easier to demonise them that way. You can call them murderers all you want but that does not stop actual REALITY from impacting on their decisions.. it just makes it easier for you to point the finger and be judgmental. Feel better for it? I doubt you've saved any babies doing that.
[edit on 29-3-2009 by riley]
Originally posted by jasonjnelson
On this very page I say that I don't make these statements in relation, and in fact make exception for, THOSE minorities.
What is wrong with you?
Originally posted by Aermacchi
Oh and J. hope you already read my discription of rileys method using the "all woman are losers that can't take responsibility for their own lives much less anyone else's hence another infant needlessly murdered from the womb to the tomb by Planned parenthood or some murder mill.
Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by riley
Then don't have sex!
Sorry, condoning murder because it is somehow too difficult to cope with the results of your actions?
Doesn't anyone get that point?
That this is what we are arguing?
That saving the million babies a year that are NOT the product of rape, or incest, is really what matters to us?
This is NOT THIS HARD TO GET. Seriously.
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by Aermacchi
Oh and J. hope you already read my discription of rileys method using the "all woman are losers that can't take responsibility for their own lives much less anyone else's hence another infant needlessly murdered from the womb to the tomb by Planned parenthood or some murder mill.
You bloody well know thats not what I have been saying. You wrote a post "To all women who have abortions". You did not exclude any women from your hateful tirade.
Now did you even bother loking up ectopic pregnancy? didn't think so.
edit. nicely done. I think you only badmouthed me to get me to reply. leave me out of it.
[edit on 30-3-2009 by riley]
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
And I say it is murder, I don't much care about the semantic argument of the thing, langauge is and always will be subjective and transitory as to the meanings of the various words.
Why is murder acceptable if there is a rape involved? By your logic surely the kid didn't ask to be a product of rape, why punish the kid?
Firstly, nothing about that post wasn't seeking to argue whether abortion was murder or not. I believe it is and thusly I state it as such. Might want to be clear on what exactly your opponent is arguing before you try to debate them, just another pearl of advice.
your as delusionally partisian as they come aren't you? Problem is you expect the rest of the world to be as such too.
You can slide the terms around all you want in an attempt to make a fetus not a human all you wish. Doesn't change the simple facts of the matter though. Sorry. Or have you forgotten already the definitions I have posted for you?
People love an easy way out. Always have always will. Despite the morality of it. And will seek to rationalize it into being perfectly fine.