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Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

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posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Coming from a guy that states women can get fired for being pregnant in this age of labor laws and that social programs don't help. Enjoy your disengenious retreat though.




posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



Not everything is black and white this or that hate to tell you, the world is generally painted in shades of grey. So of course I state that under certain circumstances it is murder.

LOL, nice attempt at wise but that doesn’t make abortion equal murder. By the way many pro-life people only see abortion through black and white eyes so I don’t think you have room to argue that.

It is a life form

We kill millions of life forms every year. We kill children in wars that we pay for; we kill animals for food and do a multitude of testing on them for our convenience. I don’t assume if you agree with this but I’d hate to ask because you aren’t good at answering questions. Way back in this thread I asked if you ever took in or planned to take in the countless children that already need homes, you ignored me, and I offered to get you info on this issue (what unwanted children go through). You never replied to all of the studies I posted. I can understand if you feel a potential human is in a different category, but that doesn’t wipe away the fact that it is not a human being, even if you disregard a basic definition of murder. That doesn’t change that there is no human involved, only a potential.

Though I wouldn't mind you proving me wrong it should be noted.

Geez, if scientific facts and actual definitions don’t prove you wrong then what will? What could I possibly produce that would ever make you second guess your beliefs?

And I think right and wrong are getting thrown around too much, and I apologize for using the terms too often. Just like you stated everything is grey. Everything is subjective. And honestly I don’t know why I spend so much time discussing this issue when every abortion measure I’ve supported has been successful in my state. Or with so many people favoring abortion. I guess I just want the other side to see my point of view, but at the end of the day I’m thankful their morality (on this issue) is not a legal reality.


[edit on 30-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by riley
 


Coming from a guy that states women can get fired for being pregnant in this age of labor laws and that social programs don't help. Enjoy your disengenious retreat though.

In my country women do not have real protection.. we don't even have paid maternity leave. Labour laws vary.. not all countries are as evolved as the great US os A.

"Disengeuous"?

I NEVER said social programes don't help. I said they can only help so much because they have limited resources.

(..just defending myself against a blatent missquote/bait. I still think this thread is pointless pro-life propoganda)

[edit on 30-3-2009 by riley]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


LOL, nice attempt at wise but that doesn’t make abortion equal murder. By the way many pro-life people only see abortion through black and white eyes so I don’t think you have room to argue that.


Firstly, nothing about that post wasn't seeking to argue whether abortion was murder or not. I believe it is and thusly I state it as such. Might want to be clear on what exactly your opponent is arguing before you try to debate them, just another pearl of advice.

Secondly, dayum
, your as delusionally partisian as they come aren't you? Problem is you expect the rest of the world to be as such too.
Ah, you don't think I do do you? Even if your generalization was true I do not allow others to do my thinking for me so what anyone else says has no bearing on me, regardless of how simular our stances maybe. Especially considering about how I was talking about how it was not a black and white subject, which makes it absolutely hillarious and more than a little damaging on you *makes you look more than a little silly kid* that you would tell me that isn't what I was saying because others have said something as a response to me saying something.


We kill millions of life forms every year. We kill children in wars that we pay for; we kill animals for food and do a multitude of testing on them for our convenience. I don’t assume if you agree with this but I’d hate to ask because you aren’t good at answering questions. Way back in this thread I asked if you ever took in or planned to take in the countless children that already need homes, you ignored me, and I offered to get you info on this issue (what unwanted children go through). You never replied to all of the studies I posted. I can understand if you feel a potential human is in a different category, but that doesn’t wipe away the fact that it is not a human being, even if you disregard a basic definition of murder. That doesn’t change that there is no human involved, only a potential.


I didn't answer the question because it has no bearing on the debate at hand and was simply a quite silly, not to mention transparent, tactic by yourself most likely meant as an attack on my credibility, failing completely to take several thousand possible factors into account about my personal life I would have absolutely no interest in divulging to a self-righteous ATS troll. Though you of course take it as a weakness to my stance, as is to be expected.
Still murder hate to tell you. You can slide the terms around all you want in an attempt to make a fetus not a human all you wish. Doesn't change the simple facts of the matter though. Sorry. Or have you forgotten already the definitions I have posted for you?


Geez, if scientific facts and actual definitions don’t prove you wrong then what will? What could I possibly produce that would ever make you second guess your beliefs?


LoL! Actual definitions you say? Scientific facts you say? Rrrrriiiiggghhhttt. This is getting funnier by the minute. And you go and agree with me contradicting this comment in the next paragraph.



And I think right and wrong are getting thrown around too much, and I apologize for using the terms too often. Just like you stated everything is grey. Everything is subjective. And honestly I don’t know why I spend so much time discussing this issue when every abortion measure I’ve supported has been successful in my state. Or with so many people favoring abortion. I guess I just want the other side to see my point of view, but at the end of the day I’m thankful their morality (on this issue) is not a legal reality.


People love an easy way out. Always have always will. Despite the morality of it. And will seek to rationalize it into being perfectly fine.
Oh, and meet the logical fallcy you just used, argumentum ad populum
As for the end of your monologue, yea, whatever.
Might want to take a close look at yourself there budroe because your whole demeanor is NOT that of someone who just wishes to others to "see my point of view". Or do you expect yours to take precedent?

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Keep telling yourself that, seeing as to how you are seeming to enjoy your victim mentality and yet continually come back despite repeatedly saying your leaving.


And if you don't like being misquoted and baited, how come do you use it so much on others? Though that wasn't what I was doing.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by riley
 


One word: adoption.
This is the seond line, aint it grand?

Yeah I hear there's a real high demand for crack babies.

It's also not like 9 months of pregnancy, painful childbirth, giving up a newborn baby and then having to pay thousands of dollars for the medical bills would be a very hard thing to do.. not to mention the part where she can't actually work to support herself to pay for food and rent (she can forget about higher education). Most people call that the cycle of poverty but to pro-lifers it's called "just a little bit of inconvenience" to try make it sound like a simple decision because it's easier to demonise them that way. You can call them murderers all you want but that does not stop actual REALITY from impacting on their decisions.. it just makes it easier for you to point the finger and be judgmental. Feel better for it? I doubt you've saved any babies doing that.

[edit on 29-3-2009 by riley]


Oh and J. hope you already read my discription of rileys method using the "all woman are losers that can't take responsibility for their own lives much less anyone else's hence another infant needlessly murdered from the womb to the tomb by Planned parenthood or some murder mill.

Again we see riley giving what she hopes her interlocutors will believe is ANOTHER LOSER FEMALE this one a crack head.

Now it seems anyone that gets a kid killed is either raped, or jobless pathetic losers and crack heads.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
On this very page I say that I don't make these statements in relation, and in fact make exception for, THOSE minorities.

What is wrong with you?



Why is murder acceptable if there is a rape involved? By your logic surely the kid didn't ask to be a product of rape, why punish the kid?



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
Oh and J. hope you already read my discription of rileys method using the "all woman are losers that can't take responsibility for their own lives much less anyone else's hence another infant needlessly murdered from the womb to the tomb by Planned parenthood or some murder mill.

You bloody well know thats not what I have been saying. You wrote a post "To all women who have abortions". You did not exclude any women from your hateful tirade.

Now did you even bother loking up ectopic pregnancy? didn't think so.

edit. nicely done. I think you only badmouthed me to get me to reply. leave me out of it.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by riley]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by Krahzeef
 


It's not right to ask someone to carry a very poigent reminded of a very traumatic event.
This is a grand second line aint it?


[edit on 30-3-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by riley
 


Then don't have sex!

Sorry, condoning murder because it is somehow too difficult to cope with the results of your actions?

Doesn't anyone get that point?

That this is what we are arguing?

That saving the million babies a year that are NOT the product of rape, or incest, is really what matters to us?

This is NOT THIS HARD TO GET. Seriously.



This is what baffles me because we see the same rehearsed talking points from your average anti christ website where they spoon feed these you woman and teens like Rapinthebat teaching them how to argue with the defenders of the innocent children. Then they are not even pregnant and most would think such draconian and macabe measure to deal with their actions would be a last resort something they would feel very unfortunate existed as an only alternative. What we see conversely is these woman arguing for this as if it was bigger than winning the lottery they see it like it is an opportunity and not a tragedy and find no shortage of hysterically illogical excuses to justify it.

Once in a while someone like Rap comes along and


welp we better just hide tail and run!



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Oh and J. hope you already read my discription of rileys method using the "all woman are losers that can't take responsibility for their own lives much less anyone else's hence another infant needlessly murdered from the womb to the tomb by Planned parenthood or some murder mill.

You bloody well know thats not what I have been saying. You wrote a post "To all women who have abortions". You did not exclude any women from your hateful tirade.

Now did you even bother loking up ectopic pregnancy? didn't think so.

edit. nicely done. I think you only badmouthed me to get me to reply. leave me out of it.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by riley]



Gee riley,, what is it with you? You can't understand why I wouold say that can you? HA HA HA

TRY HARDER or I know! with the exception of your ectopic pregnancy,, READ YOUR POSTS

Then explain to me why ANYONE would see it any other way and why those who have responded to you, got the same clue

FROM YOU



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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I think people have to learn to deal with the cards they are dealt.
Sometimes people deal their own cards. Live with the consequences and show life some respect and allow it dignity.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by SouthCarolina]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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It is that time of an especially long thread on a contentious topic that we will pause for a moment and recall that posting to the poster, especially in an offensive and demeaning fashion, will not be tolerated.

Please remain on topic and remember that Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

Thank you.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Hey memory shock...

Sorry, did we wake you?

We are having some sort of contentious debate that will never really reach any conclusions.

Sorry to disturb you, mods', and we'll keep it down.

Scout's Honor.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
And I say it is murder, I don't much care about the semantic argument of the thing, langauge is and always will be subjective and transitory as to the meanings of the various words.


You say it is murder, that's all well and good. However, the actual law doesn't agree with you and never will. There is no money in stopping abortions for any politician, Bush had you all fooled into thinking abortion laws would change, not much chance now, huh? Your opinion, and the others who see it your way is based primarily on religious beliefs and the politicians know exactly how to get your hopes up, then leave you all hanging. Same with Obama, there are many out there who are certain gun laws and gay marriage laws will change and that we'd be out of Iraq right now, but he only plays a liberal on TV. They're all the same. Just because you want a law to be, doesn't make it so. You could say 40 MPH on the highway is speeding in your book, but if the law is 55 MPH, you could sit there at the side of the road and shout at them and tell them they're speeding all you want, but people would zoom by and give you the bird, and you'd just look crazy. Abortion is legal, until it is not, calling it murder is nothing more than an opinion. Comparing the arguments presented by the pro-choice side to arguments used in court to defend murder is just plain silly, since those who get abortions will not be put on trial, not on earth anyway (i know what you're going to say).


[edit on 30-3-2009 by 27jd]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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The only abortion I support is for ectopic pregnancy. It will kill the woman AND the baby, if surgery isn't done.
And the baby can't develop much because of the restrictive walls.
A friend of mine had to have chemotherapy for hers and it hurt her feelings, because she is a Christian.
I don't think God considers that abortion.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Krahzeef
 




Why is murder acceptable if there is a rape involved? By your logic surely the kid didn't ask to be a product of rape, why punish the kid?


So you're advocating the punishment of the victim? Is that what you're saying? The victim should have to live with not only the violation of her person in a most vile way, but she get's to see a reminder for the entire time she carries the child? Nice.

No, the child didn't ask to be a product of rape, but it is never the less. The woman carrying the child should have that option. As for ectopic pregnancy? That's a life threatening condition and an abortion is the only remedy for it.



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



Firstly, nothing about that post wasn't seeking to argue whether abortion was murder or not. I believe it is and thusly I state it as such. Might want to be clear on what exactly your opponent is arguing before you try to debate them, just another pearl of advice.

You stated abortion is murder, possibly not in all cases. I corrected you, showing you how it is not in most cases. You continue to say it is. Since when has that not been part of our argument?

your as delusionally partisian as they come aren't you? Problem is you expect the rest of the world to be as such too.

How am I the partisan one? I’m the one showing you facts and willing to show you more and you just dismiss them no matter what and call me names. Yeah, real nonpartisan, real mature.

You can slide the terms around all you want in an attempt to make a fetus not a human all you wish. Doesn't change the simple facts of the matter though. Sorry. Or have you forgotten already the definitions I have posted for you?

It is not a human, only a potential. That’s a simple fact. Why would I pay attention to any definitions posted by you when you totally disregard the DEFININTIONS and STUDIES I post?


People love an easy way out. Always have always will. Despite the morality of it. And will seek to rationalize it into being perfectly fine.

Wow again, you pro-life people get so dramatic and avoid my simple questions.
It was not a “tactic”. It was an honest question: do you or do you plan to take in an unwanted child in the future? What do you think of the studies and commentary I posted about unwanted children? Why do you refuse to answer those questions and why did you disappear from our previous discussion when I asked them? Could it be because no matter how much whining and name calling you do on the internet while complaining about abortion that you never intend to help any of the unwanted children you want to see brought into the world and that you do not want to realize the REALITY of what they go through? By the way you should really look over the study that shows ABORTION is HELPING more of these kids get adopted.


Again, I would appreciate it if every time I stated an opinion to you or ask you a simple question or tried to get you to see my side of this argument that you wouldn’t completely ignore it and start personally insulting me. All you have to do is state that you disagree and why, there’s no need for this pettiness to continue. Otherwise this discussion is over.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]



posted on Mar, 30 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 

How is it NOT murder in most cases?
I mean like my case where I simply didn't have huge sums of money ready to pay for everything a baby entails.
Who does?
I was selfish and did it for my convenience. Period.
As do most women who have the procedure.
After having my three live sons, I could tell when I drank coffee and they got hiccups, or rolled over in the womb, while I put my hand over them.
A baby is not just a 'potential human' it IS HUMAN.



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