YouTube vid: "Masonic Rituals recorded and exposed by a Brother in Turkey"

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
That first sentence makes no sense.

Yes, because the Freemasons stole the name "Hiram Abiff" and put somebody else's body on him.

What don't you get? My journey through Freemasonry has strengthened my faith. Not that hard a concept.

How did Freemasons steal the name? Now Freemasons switch bodies?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
They don't hide each other's Masonic crimes, so, yes, techincally, they don't hide each other's crimes.

What are Masonic crimes? And if you really had done any research you would know that Freemasons are charged to be good citizens. That means we follow the law.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Why not just tell a candidate that they must discover their own interpretation for the symbols? Why tell anybody? Isn't it just your own interpretation?

Why the individual Brother can have their own interpretation of a symbol the Fraternity as an organization has it's set description - this is taught to the candidate.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
And children would be abducted why? Oh, because of Satanic practices ! I'm sure you know about the conspiracy theories surrounding ID programs.

Bad men often do bad things to include abduct children. I'm sure Satanic practices may have played a part in a couple, but I'm sure there are other sick reasons. Yes, I've read some of the conspiracy theories on them, one just as ridiculous as the next. Do you believe that if we didn't have this program there would be no abductions?

CHIP is not a deterrent, but a tool to help law enforcement rescue the child. The only people who keep the data is the parents.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by KSigMason]

Secrecy is a part of Masonic tradition. Maintaining the privacy of our lodges is no more nefarious than your family maintaining the privacy of a family dinner.

When men are no longer able to meet in private without gangs of ignorant people speculating that they are drinking goat blood, men will no longer be free. You want to know the most private part of Freemasonry? You want to know the secret that lies at the heart of the fraternity?

Why?

Mere curiosity? To hold it up to ridicule? So that you will know something that has no meaning or use to you? Just so you can disapprove of it?

Are you truly that small? Are you really so insecure that any group that meets in private poses a treat to your security? Are you honestly such a damn busy-body that you consider every man's private dealings to be matters of concern for you?

Perhaps it would be best if you stopped and considered your motivations before you got so excited about what Masons do.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

You haven't earned the privilege to know the rituals.

reply to post by dredz

 

You are right. We could violate our Obligations and he would still call us liars. Fools are incapable of seeing the truth even when pushed in front of them.

Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Just a society with secrets, then?

You wouldn't quote the Bible if you really believed in Masonry.

Originally posted by M74

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So what if he's a doctor? What relevance does that bear?

Why would a guest on that show need to shake hands with the host?

Where is the proof for your denials?

Where did I assert "relevance"? I merely called him by his proper title. What's your problem with that? He's earned it.

He shook hands with everybody on the show that night. It's called being polite and a gentleman. What's your problem with that?

And the burden of proof is on you. You're the one making outrageous accusations, not I.

His "proper" title? What does that even mean?

It's not gentleman-like to interrupt a TV program to make a trite, unneeded gesture, much less a gesture than could be easily misconstrued.

Originally posted by KSigMason
What don't you get? My journey through Freemasonry has strengthened my faith. Not that hard a concept.

How did Freemasons steal the name? Now Freemasons switch bodies?

Ok, you meant to write "my" but you wrote "by."

Yep, just like Weekend at Bernie's. Freemasons stole the name "Hiram Abif" from the Bible, just like a bunch of other names. The Bible does not say that Hiram Abiff was raised using the strong grip, so where's your proof for that?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
They don't hide each other's Masonic crimes, so, yes, techincally, they don't hide each other's crimes.

What are Masonic crimes? And if you really had done any research you would know that Freemasons are charged to be good citizens. That means we follow the law.

I guess treason and murder are technically part of "the law."

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Why not just tell a candidate that they must discover their own interpretation for the symbols? Why tell anybody? Isn't it just your own interpretation?

Why the individual Brother can have their own interpretation of a symbol the Fraternity as an organization has it's set description - this is taught to the candidate.

So, then, there is a standard interpretation. Sure, each member can develop his own understanding of the symbols, but in the meantime, the "lower-level Masons" are given an interpretation.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
And children would be abducted why? Oh, because of Satanic practices ! I'm sure you know about the conspiracy theories surrounding ID programs.

Bad men often do bad things to include abduct children. I'm sure Satanic practices may have played a part in a couple, but I'm sure there are other sick reasons. Yes, I've read some of the conspiracy theories on them, one just as ridiculous as the next. Do you believe that if we didn't have this program there would be know abductions?

CHIP is not a deterrent, but a tool to help law enforcement rescue the child. The only people who keep the data is the parents.

Exactly, it's to entrap the perpetrators, not to aid society at large. There is another word for this -- vengenance. I'm sure that vengeance is not a virtue that is taught in the lodge.

Nabbing the perps can also be an opportunity to learn how the child was lured in the first place. Perhaps this help Masons to "enlighten" themselves about what makes the children tick?

All Belief in a devine being is ignorant. You can put any name on a silly group or cult. Still useless and a waste of time.

reply to post by driley



My family doesn't put its family seal on the sides of thousands of buildings. We don't advertise our family reunions in public view. Yes, my family's business is private, and they keep it private. I'm sure lots of people want to know about the Kardashians, and they know more about the Kardashians than my family.

It's easy not to make a blip on the radar: just stay out of its view.

Remind us outsiders why people want to ridicule Freemasonry, if you would.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
His "proper" title? What does that even mean?

I can't help you if you don't understand the English language. He is, by trade and formal education, a medical doctor. Ergo, his carries the title of "Doctor". How difficult is that to understand?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligenIt's not gentleman-like to interrupt a TV program to make a trite, unneeded gesture, much less a gesture than could be easily misconstrued.

How did he "interrupt" the program? All he did was shake hands as he was introduced to the stage. He was just being nice to the people around him. The only people who could misconstrue such a simple, friendly, common gesture are individuals plagued by paranoia.

[edit on 3/22/2009 by M74]

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You wouldn't quote the Bible if you really believed in Masonry.

Nonsense. Most Masons I know are Christians of some denomination or another. Why shouldn't we be able to quote the Bible? It's our faith. Despite what the Vatican claims, Christianity and Freemasonry are not incompatible.

The Vatican? That's funny. Jesuits wrote the degrees of freemasonry, and at the most fundamental level the Vatican is the head of global freemasonry.

Originally posted by M74

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
His "proper" title? What does that even mean?

I can't help you if you don't understand the English language. He is, by trade and formal education, a medical doctor. Ergo, his carries the title of "Doctor". How difficult is that to understand?

His public persona isn't "Dr. Paul." When people eat Jello pudding pops, do they speak in reverence of Dr. Cosby?
Ron Paul didn't appear on the show to write a prescription. If he was used to endorse medicinal marijuana, then that's exactly what happened -- he was used.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligenIt's not gentleman-like to interrupt a TV program to make a trite, unneeded gesture, much less a gesture than could be easily misconstrued.

How did he "interrupt" the program? All he did was shake hands as he was introduced to the stage. He was just being nice to the people around him. The only people who could misconstrue such a simple, friendly, common gesture are individuals plagued by paranoia.

I'm sure he already shook hands backstage, and after the show. Why would he need to be filmed shaking hands? Doesn't he understand that such a gesture could be mistaken for a Masonic grip? Not everybody considers shaking hands on TV to be a kind, friendly gesture.

Originally posted by M74

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You wouldn't quote the Bible if you really believed in Masonry.

Nonsense. Most Masons I know are Christians of some denomination or another. Why shouldn't we be able to quote the Bible? It's our faith. Despite what the Vatican claims, Christianity and Freemasonry are not incompatible.

You have not read Matthew 23, James 5:12, or 2 Corinthians 11:14-15

The Masonic lodge, apparently, is full of, what the Bible likes to call ... false prophets.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The Vatican? That's funny. Jesuits wrote the degrees of freemasonry, and at the most fundamental level the Vatican is the head of global freemasonry.

All the while automatically excommunicating the members of their congregation who also happen to be Freemasons through papal decrees. Right.

I don't know alot about masons, however my father inlaw whom I never met was a mason. As great a person as my wife is I hardly think they are evil. Also my ex brother inlaw was one,he to was a good man, and I morn his death. I worked with to guys years ago that were masons and they were both good men. So my question would be how could I take the walk?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
His public persona isn't "Dr. Paul." When people eat Jello pudding pops, do they speak in reverence of Dr. Cosby?
Ron Paul didn't appear on the show to write a prescription. If he was used to endorse medicinal marijuana, then that's exactly what happened -- he was used.

Public persona? When did I ever mention his public persona? And most of his supporters do know him as Dr. Paul. His nickname on the Hill is "Dr. No". It's just who he is, and whether you were familiar with that fact or not, many other people are and refer to him as such. You're picking knits.

By the way, I like how you've allowed your own thread to be derailed by this.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I'm sure he already shook hands backstage, and after the show. Why would he need to be filmed shaking hands? Doesn't he understand that such a gesture could be mistaken for a Masonic grip? Not everybody considers shaking hands on TV to be a kind, friendly gesture.

You don't know if he met everyone backstage or not. It's very possible he didn't have time to do so. He was running for President at the time, wasn't he? I very much doubt he had a lot of time to just hang out backstage. He probably showed up just before filming and left immediately after to get back on the campaign. For all we know, his campaign manager kept him isolated before he went on stage, as is so often the case with political candidates.

And why would anyone, other than conspiracy theorists, think that a simple handshake would be misconstrued as a masonic grip? It's just a handshake. I can't imagine anyone's mind immediately jumping to such an outlandish conclusion. It's ridiculous and, as stated before, paranoid. Given that he is not a Mason himself, I can't think of any reason why he might think his handshakes would be misinterpreted as something that doesn't apply to him. Unless his father accidentally showed him the grip sometime while he was growing up, he might not even know the exact grip or how to give it. So why in his right mind would he have any reason to worry about some paranoid individual seeing a mere handshake as something its not?

[edit on 3/22/2009 by M74]

[edit on 3/22/2009 by M74]

[edit on 3/22/2009 by M74]

Originally posted by M74

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
His public persona isn't "Dr. Paul." When people eat Jello pudding pops, do they speak in reverence of Dr. Cosby?
Ron Paul didn't appear on the show to write a prescription. If he was used to endorse medicinal marijuana, then that's exactly what happened -- he was used.

Public persona? When did I ever mention his public persona? And most of his supporters do know him as Dr. Paul. His nickname on the Hill is "Dr. No". It's just who he is, and whether you were familiar with that fact or not, many other people are and refer to him as such. You're picking knits.

By the way, I like how you've allowed your own thread to be derailed by this.

Well, most people call him as Ron Paul, including many supporters.

So it was your intention to derail the thread?

You don't know if he met everyone backstage or not. It's very possible he didn't have time to do so. He was running for President at the time, wasn't he? ...

A bunch of excuses. No, he did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.
If he were such a frail old man, then why was he running for president? He was visibly exhausted in his televised appearances. He could have a heart attack!

He's a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas.

Originally posted by M74

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The Vatican? That's funny. Jesuits wrote the degrees of freemasonry, and at the most fundamental level the Vatican is the head of global freemasonry.

All the while automatically excommunicating the members of their congregation who also happen to be Freemasons through papal decrees. Right.

Yes, that's right. Do your research. You'll find out.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

That's it, that's all we are.

Why wouldn't I quote the Bible?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Ok, you meant to write "my" but you wrote "by."

Ah, and so I did. Fat fingered.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The Bible does not say that Hiram Abiff was raised using the strong grip, so where's your proof for that?

So anything not mentioned in the Bible didn't happen?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I guess treason and murder are technically part of "the law."

Yes those would be crimes.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So, then, there is a standard interpretation. Sure, each member can develop his own understanding of the symbols, but in the meantime, the "lower-level Masons" are given an interpretation.

Well, yes, there is a standard definition of symbols, but its not just for "low-level" Masons. As you climb the ranks it doesn't change.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Exactly, it's to entrap the perpetrators, not to aid society at large. There is another word for this -- vengenance. I'm sure that vengeance is not a virtue that is taught in the lodge.

Entrap? What?! It's to assist in the rescue of the abducted and arrest those who have committed the crime.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Nabbing the perps can also be an opportunity to learn how the child was lured in the first place. Perhaps this help Masons to "enlighten" themselves about what makes the children tick?

Again, once the data is given to the parents the Masons never have contact with the data. They don't gather data on the public. Why does everything have to be sinister?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
He's a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas.

I'm a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas. Ron Paul is not.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So it was your intention to derail the thread?

Not my intention. My intention was to ascertain why you thought it was comical to refer to a medical doctor by the title of doctor. I just noticed this has gone on long enough.

A bunch of excuses. No, he did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.
If he were such a frail old man, then why was he running for president? He was visibly exhausted in his televised appearances. He could have a heart attack!

He's a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas.

It's obvious you've never worked on a campaign. I have on the local level, for a short period of time, and I've old college friends (non-masons, for the record) who have work for presidential campaigns as well. We've seen how politicians are isolated before a public or media appearance. It's not an excuse. It's a wholly plausible, and in fact highly likely, explanation.

And again, please provide proof of his membership in any lodge.

[edit on 3/23/2009 by M74]

[edit on 3/23/2009 by M74]