y'know, sometimes i wonder if humans ARE all sheep who WANT to be controlled by others. the only way id be joining any secret society was if i was sitting at the top of it. Here, let me be your controller - id treat u better than they do... ha ha ha.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
something that is good doesnt need secrecy.

Try marching into a corporation's board meeting. I'm sincerely doubtful that (even if they aren't reptilian Satan-worshippers) you're likely avoid getting the bum's rush.

HTH
Fitz

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by mick1423
But if you're into a masonic Temple, as a follower of a Luciferian Cult,
you're definitely not, one of the Good guys..!

Masons, beleive they're spreading the Light BUT they are actualy, very
mutch afraid of the Light..!

Actually Masons must be of some religion before joining and are taught to worship their own God in their own way...

You only need to believe in a Supreme Being. You don't need to practice a religion.

Originally posted by KSigMasonthere is no god of Freemasonry. Many of the men under George Washington were Freemasons and many Freemasons are well-known 'good guys'.

The "god" of Freemasonry is the erect penis.

You'd be surprised at how many Masons deny that George Washington was one.

Who are these "good guys?" I'm sure you could find something bad about each and every one of them.

Originally posted by KSigMason
-It took several committees that had no Masonic members in it to make the seal

They wanted to put even more Masonic stuff in it, but they conceded to putting only some stuff

Originally posted by KSigMason
-The video states there are thirty three stones (I’m guessing he meant steps), but either way that number is way off.

I have to agree. There isn't even a way to count the stones, because the lines aren't drawn clearly

Originally posted by KSigMason
-The all-seeing eye is emblematical of God

Not the Christian God though

Originally posted by KSigMason-Novus Ordo Seclorum doesn’t mean “New World Order”, but “New Order of the Ages”. Someone needs another Latin lesson.

Badgering

Originally posted by KSigMason
-None of the Bush’s have ever been Freemasons

Really? George W. Bush loves doing Masonic things

Originally posted by KSigMason
-Just because Bill Clinton was on a magazine cover doesn’t mean he was a Freemason. He was in the DeMolay, but never became a Freemason.

He was still a Freemasonry supporter

Originally posted by KSigMason
-There is no definitive connection (one that anyone can prove) between Priory of Sion, Knights Templar, and the Freemasons; or to Rosslyn Chapel.

So how did Freemasonry start?

Originally posted by KSigMason
Part 2

-As I said above, there is no known connection between Templars and Freemasonry

And yet there is a degree called the Order of Knights Templar

Originally posted by KSigMason
-Hell, there is still no evidence that the Priory of Sion were connected to the Templars.

I don't believe the Priory of Sion thing either, but the Knights Templar did exist, and you don't deny that they fled from France to Scotland.

Originally posted by KSigMason-Wait, wait…because one group used nets to capture the enemy anyone that uses a net is the same as the group? So no one else in the world has ever used a net? Net use is exclusive to communists only? That my friend is what we call a non-sequitur argument.

Actually, it's a fallacy of distribution

Originally posted by KSigMason-I love how he calls pro-Mason videos “propaganda”. How hypocritical.

Because they are propaganda

Originally posted by KSigMason-Conspiracy theorists think they know why members join, but really have no idea. Most conspiracies are created out of ignorance, fear, or revenge.

Freemasons use ignorance, fear or vengeance in their own right

Originally posted by KSigMason-We are taught to be charitable

Where is your proof, that you are taught to be "charitable" ??

Originally posted by KSigMason-Also note, if anything, by the structure of Freemasonry, Freemasons would prefer a more confederate system than a unitary NWO.

A confederate system in which each section is the same?

Originally posted by KSigMasonPart 3

-As for the referencing a Hitler image, the Grand Lodge of Idaho denounced Hitler, his ideals, and the atrocities of the Nazi Party.

Of course, because they are Zionists. The video doesn't say that the Grand Lodge of Idaho worshipped Hitler.

Originally posted by KSigMason
-And the whole aura and magic talk by the narrator is setting off my crazy meter.

Truth hurts

Originally posted by KSigMason-As for the skull part, it only pertains to the York Rite of Freemasonry

So you're throwing the York Rite under the bus?

Originally posted by KSigMason-Boaz and Jachin don’t pertain to Egyptian gods; maybe someone should read the bible

Or Morals and Dogma

Originally posted by KSigMason
-As for the Jahbulon picture, nice photoshop and lying.

Which part is lying?

Originally posted by KSigMason
Part 4
-How dramatic that the ‘creator’ of these videos is ‘murdered’. Pretty sad. He has revealed nothing but only made a mockery of documentaries.

Actually, he was making a mockery of the death threats that he received

Originally posted by KSigMason
-The George Washington Masonic Memorial is a spectacular building. Each body of the Freemasons had a hand in its design.

You mean each appendent body?

Originally posted by KSigMason
-The Bohemian Club or Skull&Bones have no connection to the Freemasons.

No connection? You're clearly exaggerating

Originally posted by KSigMason-The Jewish Order has no authority over Freemasonry

What is the "Jewish Order" ?

Originally posted by KSigMasonFor future references too, some music, sound clips, and assumptions don’t make something true. There were hardly any facts given in that video, it was mostly just cooky mumbo jumbo.

Emotional appeals don't make something true either.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

You only need to believe in a Supreme Being. You don't need to practice a religion.

True.

The "god" of Freemasonry is the erect penis.

Ummm......not true. Put down the Aleister Crowley book, and slowly back away.

You'd be surprised at how many Masons deny that George Washington was one.

What Freemason has made that denial?

Not the Christian God though

God is God. The All Seeing Eye symbolizes his omnipresence.

Really? George W. Bush loves doing Masonic things

Like what? "Masonic things" are going to Lodge meetings, which, as a non-Mason, he doesn't do.

So how did Freemasonry start?

Almost all historians, both Masonic and secular, agree that Freemasonry began with the stonemason guilds in medieval England.

And yet there is a degree called the Order of Knights Templar

The theory that the Masons came from the Templars was popular in the 19th century. At one time all the big time Masonic authors bought the story, including Pike, Mackey, and Waite.

Since that time, other evidence has been noted that disputes that theory, and we now know that Freemasonry existed before the Templars did (meaning of course that the Templars could not have created it).

I don't believe the Priory of Sion thing either, but the Knights Templar did exist, and you don't deny that they fled from France to Scotland.

It is true that some left for Scotland, and is possible that some joined Masonic Lodges. However, in Portugal, the Templars there simply changed their name to Knights of Christ, which still exists and has demonstrable historical ties to the original Templars, whereas Freemasonry does not.

Other organizations also have provable historical ties to the Templars in other countries. Outside of France, most Templars had been acquitted and they simply carried on under other orders chivalry.

Where is your proof, that you are taught to be "charitable" ??

It is the very first lesson a Mason learns upon his initiation.

You mean each appendent body?

Most of them.

No connection? You're clearly exaggerating

He wasn't. Freemasonry is not connected with other organizations, fraternal or otherwise.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The "god" of Freemasonry is the erect penis.

Ummm......not true. Put down the Aleister Crowley book, and slowly back away.

That's what the obelisk and the Kadosh represent.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You'd be surprised at how many Masons deny that George Washington was one.

What Freemason has made that denial?

I can't remember who, but they said that pictures of George Washington in a Masonic apron may have been doctored.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Not the Christian God though

God is God. The All Seeing Eye symbolizes his omnipresence.

There you go: proof that Freemasonry doesn't care about the Christian God. The Bible even says not to depict him using graven images.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Really? George W. Bush loves doing Masonic things

Like what? "Masonic things" are going to Lodge meetings, which, as a non-Mason, he doesn't do.

Like holding a torch that is 33 inches long.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So how did Freemasonry start?

Almost all historians, both Masonic and secular, agree that Freemasonry began with the stonemason guilds in medieval England.

And they got their craft from the Greeks, did they not?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
And yet there is a degree called the Order of Knights Templar

The theory that the Masons came from the Templars was popular in the 19th century. At one time all the big time Masonic authors bought the story, including Pike, Mackey, and Waite.

Since that time, other evidence has been noted that disputes that theory, and we now know that Freemasonry existed before the Templars did (meaning of course that the Templars could not have created it).

How could Freemasonry have superceded the Templars if it were created in the Middle Ages?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I don't believe the Priory of Sion thing either, but the Knights Templar did exist, and you don't deny that they fled from France to Scotland.

It is true that some left for Scotland, and is possible that some joined Masonic Lodges. However, in Portugal, the Templars there simply changed their name to Knights of Christ, which still exists and has demonstrable historical ties to the original Templars, whereas Freemasonry does not.

Other organizations also have provable historical ties to the Templars in other countries. Outside of France, most Templars had been acquitted and they simply carried on under other orders chivalry.

Obviously the Knights Templar weren't stone artisans, but they did infiltrate Freemasonry, just as the Bavarian Illuminati did.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Where is your proof, that you are taught to be "charitable" ??

It is the very first lesson a Mason learns upon his initiation.

Please tell us about this lesson.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
No connection? You're clearly exaggerating

He wasn't. Freemasonry is not connected with other organizations, fraternal or otherwise.

"Skull & Bones" came out of German Freemasonry. The Bohemian Club and Freemasonry both share an affinity for the owl god Moloch. You can't say that there is absolutely no connection.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Not the Christian God though

God is God. The All Seeing Eye symbolizes his omnipresence.

There you go: proof that Freemasonry doesn't care about the Christian God.

I must agree with Masonic Light here. Even the Bible tells us...

Hear, O Israel: The Lord thy God is one.
Mark 12:29

[edit on 8/5/2009 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Not the Christian God though

God is God. The All Seeing Eye symbolizes his omnipresence.

There you go: proof that Freemasonry doesn't care about the Christian God.

I must agree with Masonic Light here. Even the Bible tells us...

Hear, O Israel: The Lord thy God is one.
Mark 12:29

[edit on 8/5/2009 by Saurus]

I find it funny how people use the bible for everthing.....any how i must agree that the masons do not care for this god...there are very little secret societies which do...if you look at it its almost like they are religions except for the whole believing in god....paganism was one of the first quote on quote religions to exist..they did not believe in a god rather they believed in the universe and nature...centuries later came catholics which added the whole creator god image....now look at freemasons....are they not doing exactly the same thing but in a different way....they are beginning fresh from paganism and then adding their own set of laws and commandements to the story...in my opinion

Originally posted by MR.FELIZ
I find it funny how people use the bible for everthing...

I only quoted the bible because I am arguing a point of Christianity with a Christian.

any how i must agree that the masons do not care for this god...

Freemasonry as an organization does not give any opinion as to the nature of God. Freemasonry is a club, and each member has their own religion and God. Many Masons are Christians. Many are not.

there are very little secret societies which do...if you look at it its almost like they are religions except for the whole believing in god...

Again, many secret societies are religious in nature. Many are not.

paganism was one of the first quote on quote religions to exist..they did not believe in a god rather they believed in the universe and nature...centuries later came catholics which added the whole creator god image...

Paganism was definitely before Christianity. However, the concept of a Creator God has been around thousands of years before the catholics. The Egyptians believed in a Creator God. As did the Greeks, the Jews and many others. Although Catholicism has shaped modern Christianity to a large degree, I cannot agree that they were responsible for introducing the idea of a Creator God.

now look at freemasons....are they not doing exactly the same thing but in a different way....they are beginning fresh from paganism and then adding their own set of laws and commandements to the story...in my opinion

Masonry has to do with morals, not religion.

You are correct...I must agree fully...with the whole religion concept....and true again with the freemasons having all different religions..One thing i do believe is that when you are with your mason brothers you are all the same religion no matter your background..

Originally posted by MR.FELIZ
One thing i do believe is that when you are with your mason brothers you are all the same religion no matter your background..

You seem to have misunderstood Saurus' reply. In-Lodge, nobody's religion changes. I'm still Anglican, the United Church brethren are still U.C., the Sikh member still Sikh and so on. Masonry looks to use the commonalities between the world's religions as a bridge so that men of good character can work together instead of having their differences used as a lever against them.

Originally posted by openmindresearch

are you saying, freemasonry is, ''behind lodges' doors...'', indeed a hidden religion?

I think both Fitz *and* Feliz are correct. Fitz is correct in saying that each individual Mason adheres to his own religious belief. Feliz is correct in that, even though opinions may differ, men of different backgrounds come together in the lodge to celebrate the things they do agree on.