YouTube vid: "Masonic Rituals recorded and exposed by a Brother in Turkey"

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

That's part of the initiation rite for a Royal Arch Mason.

No, actually it's not, nor is it a part of any degree of Masonry. You'll have to do better than that.

Your negative behavior, will not bring anything good. All organisations
have their dirty laundry but thats not a reason for bashing. Many of the
best organisation, are not perfect so what, some even made crusades
and inquisition and have been and still are the Light to lead humanity
to a better world

It's NOT good to know everything, i decided long ago to see only the positive
side of life and you should all do the same and thrust Freemasonry. We care
to help humanity, by charity, We volunteer to Guide the world to a peacful
and better World, you should all appreciate it..



Fraternally yours,

Originally posted by Brothers in Arms

NO religions in the world, can really fullfill all spiritual needs
thats why masonry is so important, masonry with each and every religions
is the Enlightenment of humanitys' soul.

without masonry, humanitys' soul is like a a ship without a lighthouse.
a unclosed circle, a unfinished Geometric Figure...

So it is a Cult Group. Thanks for the window into what Masonry really is.

Please don't take offense, but I've known some Masons who are very bad people and very dishonest in business dealings. They in fact acted as if people who are not Masons are dirt under their feet. I'm sure that mentality is a danger in any Cult. From what you just said, I get the impression the whole idea of your rituals is to instill the idea of superiority in your members. It does not take a genius to see how this spawned the Masons I have known and dealt with in business. They were simply not good people and their arrogance was obscene.

Don't' shoot the messenger here as I'm just commenting on my experience with extremely dishonest people who advertised the fact that they were Masons.

For what its worth, I don't think Masonry is evil. I think its secrecy and ritual cause this behavior though. I've seen it to often to ignore it.

"without masonry, humanitys' soul is like a a ship without a lighthouse. "

That quote answers any and all questions I could have had. If you beleive that "humanity's soul" depends on Masonry, then it is a religious cult by definition.

What a terrible accusation to make about religion!

My friends and family fill my life, the works I do are for what I feel is right.
Religion is what I do at the end of every day, it's given me some of my morals, and sometimes is my guide in dark times.

Anyone who lives only by religion is generally missing the point.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Please don't take offense, but I've known some Masons who are very bad people and very dishonest in business dealings.

I've ran across plenty of Masons who are bad people. I've ran across plenty of non-Masons who are bad peole as well.

They in fact acted as if people who are not Masons are dirt under their feet. I'm sure that mentality is a danger in any Cult. From what you just said, I get the impression the whole idea of your rituals is to instill the idea of superiority in your members. It does not take a genius to see how this spawned the Masons I have known and dealt with in business. They were simply not good people and their arrogance was obscene.

Masons believe (or at least, are taught) in the brotherhood of man. That's what it's all about. A Mason can't be contemptible towards non-Masons and still practice Freemasonry, which is universal brotherhood.

The ritual is meant to teach. Whether or not the individual chooses to live by those teachings is his own decision.

For what its worth, I don't think Masonry is evil. I think its secrecy and ritual cause this behavior though. I've seen it to often to ignore it.

For the most part, Masons are honest, generous, kind, and compassionate. Most Masons do try to live up to Masonic teachings. But we've got about 4 million members, and any organization that large is bound to have some bad apples.

I want you to know that video is total crap.

The last part of it is not even filmed in the same room, temple or lodge !!!!

The first part is an EA ritual.

If you see something like a weeding ceremony,
It is ritual I know of, and popular in France.

IT IS NOT A WEEDING RITUAL. It is a weeding recognition.

The lodge simply recognize the weeding of one their member; and vow to give assistance and protection to the familly of one's of its members.

That's all.

This is crap made in Turkey in order good muslims not enter masonry.

I must point out that following these kind of propaganda. Masonic temple were bombed in Turkey.

There is nothing laugh about.

[

I'm not sure how drinking the blood of Jesus from a skull makes a good man better.

Who the hell does that?

That's part of the initiation rite for a Royal Arch Mason.


Ermm I happen to be a Royal Arch Mason, and a member of the Red Cross of Constantine, which is a concordant body in the York Rite, and I have never once drank blood from a skull. You sir, are posting lies about the order in which I am a member, please provide proof of your accusations before posting such tripe.

Thank You

Originally posted by Nimrod
I want you to know that video is total crap.

Erm... well I was thinking it, but you went ahead and said it. I don't recognize much of what is going on in the video as masonic - and that which I do is clearly clandestine and similar to some continental Grand Lodges. The translation is the clue.

This is crap made in Turkey in order good muslims not enter masonry.

Its quite possible. Islam feels just as (unnecessarily) threatened by freemasonry as Catholicism does. It's interesting that the more autocratic a religion is the more is objects to freemasonry. Strange...

I must point out that following these kind of propaganda. Masonic temple were bombed in Turkey.

There is nothing laugh about.

Quite right - no-one ever talks about the tragic bombing of a masonic lodge by terrorists in 2004.

CNN link

BBC link - followup story

What goes on behind the closed doors of the masonic lodge? Jack Harris,
former worshipful master in the masonic lodge, reenacts portions of
masonic rituals from the first three degrees in freemasonry and explains
what he taught in the lodge.

Is freemasonry a religion?
why all the rituals?

Get an in-depth answer from Jack Harris in the John Ankerberg show! If
you are truly curious about freemasonry, and what goes on behind closed
doors, you really need to see all 13..!

Masonry - Behind Closed Doors 1/13

I've seen those videos before. It's just more anti-Masonic propaganda supported by fundamentalist Christians, twisting words and out-of-context materials.

Originally posted by mick1423
What goes on behind the closed doors of the masonic lodge? Jack Harris,
former worshipful master in the masonic lodge, reenacts portions of
masonic rituals from the first three degrees in freemasonry and explains
what he taught in the lodge.

Is freemasonry a religion?
why all the rituals?

Get an in-depth answer from Jack Harris in the John Ankerberg show! If
you are truly curious about freemasonry, and what goes on behind closed
doors, you really need to see all 13..!

Masonry - Behind Closed Doors 1/13

It is very clear that a self professing believer in Jesus Christ as the light of life and God-sent ought not enter into the ritual of freemasonry.

One thing I've learned, is that, because of the secrets of Freemasonry, it is even MORE of an exclusive propositon, than is fundamentalist Christianity, reserved solely and exclusively for the initiates, all the rest, excluded in the final analysis, the "celestial lodge above" reserved for Masons alone. It is, by its very nature, intollerant with respect to the inclusion of non-masons in God's heavenly family and in his heavenly household or eternal domain. This is not dissimilar to the attitude of the Pharisees with whome Jesus was so pissed off..


[edit on 20-3-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
One thing I've learned, is that, because of the secrets of Freemasonry, it is even MORE of an exclusive propositon, than is fundamentalist Christianity, reserved solely and exclusively for the initiates, all the rest, excluded in the final analysis, the "celestial lodge above" reserved for Masons alone. It is, by its very nature, intollerant with respect to the inclusion of non-masons in God's heavenly family and in his heavenly household or eternal domain. This is not dissimilar to the attitude of the Pharisees with whome Jesus was so pissed off..

Pot, meet kettle. How are Pharisees any different than Christians who also believe there's only one way to heaven?

And no, you're completely wrong about the Masonic thoughts of afterlife. Nothing in Masonry is tell you how to get to the afterlife... that's for your own religion to dictate.

Wow, i'm surprised at how many freemasons there are on this board. I'm a little curious as to how they view the bible and jesus? It seems like you take some parts as truth? What about Islam? How can masonry reconcile two very different belief systems and doctrines?
How do you explain quotes like these?

"To you, Sovereign Instructors of Grade 33, we tell you: you have to repeat
to the brothers of inferior grades that we worship only one God to whom we
pray without superstition. It is we, Initiated in the Supreme Grade, that are to keep the real Masonic religion preserving pure the Lucifer doctrine"

- Albert Pike

Fictions are necessary to the people, and the Truth becomes deadly to those who are not strong enough to contemplate it in all its brilliance. In fact, what can there be in common between the vile multitude and sublime wisdom? The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason.

- Illustrious Albert Pike 33°
Sovereign Grand Commander
Mother Supreme Council of the World
THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the ThirtyThird and Last Degree
Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry
Morals and Dogma, page 103 -

You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations.

Ronayne
Handbook of Masonry, page 183


Manly P Hall describing the core belief of Freemasonry, the New Age Movement and the coming One World Religion: The Lost Keys of Freemasonry (1923)
"Masonry is a university, teaching the liberal arts and sciences of the soul to all ... It is a shadow of the great Atlantean Mystery School, which stood with all its splendor in the Ancient City of the Golden Gates, where now the turbulent Atlantic rolls in unbroken sweep ... . When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy."

Ya, sounds like a lovely little cult.
This kinda stuff reminds of Jehovah witnesses and Mormons because if they'd just educate themselves about the founding of their belief before they get to involved, they might still have enough reason to perceive the fallacy of what their entire belief system is based upon.

The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
John F. Kennedy

I was just pointing out the EXclusive nature of it, at the heart of it. That's all. I find it interesting, and ironic, that the apparent resolution to the "problem" of the exclusive nature of the Christian message, is something even MORE exclusive and in this case, a secret made under sworn oath and even penalty of death and annihilation.

The appropriate interpretation of the import and export of Christianity really ought to be the all inclusive proposition made as an extension of God's love for all his children - as illuminated (openly) in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Originally posted by dnaobs
Manly P Hall describing the core belief of Freemasonry, the New Age Movement and the coming One World Religion: The Lost Keys of Freemasonry (1923)
"Masonry is a university, teaching the liberal arts and sciences of the soul to all ... It is a shadow of the great Atlantean Mystery School, which stood with all its splendor in the Ancient City of the Golden Gates, where now the turbulent Atlantic rolls in unbroken sweep ... . When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy."

What's absurd about this, is that God's supreme gift of free will, when fully distinguished and understood and appropriated, brings the creative powers of the individual to the fore, whereby, once he is reconciled to God by the work of the cross, his standing is secure, and his place as an eternal co-creator with God, unshakable. This is infinitely more powerful, in as much as the WORK is actually done by God alone, from above, since what is universal cannot subject itself to the corruption of the sin and pride of man.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Exactly, the pharisees believe the gentiles where repugnant sinners, and thought christ would come to save the the jews. They believed they where the children of Abraham.
But instead christ came for sinners and extended salvation to everyone.
This is why the pharisees hated him and the jews crucified him.
Christ taught all you need to do is trust in him, i don't know how much more open and free to everyone you can get.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by dnaobs]

Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

The Pharisees would not live up to what they taught. They were so overly concerned with the externals that they neglected the "weightier matters of the law" and the simple truths about man and God. When their own Messiah had appeared in Israel they were so blinded by their observances and the minute details that they completely missed Him.


It is amazing that Jesus used the exact words of Isaiah, their great prophet, to describe their hypocrisy. Notice the quote from Isaiah 29:13:

Mark 7:5-7 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'

The Pharisees were intent upon cleansing the outside of the cup and dish whereas the inside remained dirty:

Matt 23:25-26 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

He even accused them of being whitewashed tombs, disguising their inner corruption:

Matt 23:27-29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Outward self righteousness is the inevitable product of Pharisaic legalism. Jesus revealed their true motives:

Matt 23:5 "But all their works they do to be seen by men."

They were so filled with pride that they could not see that they would not practice what they had preached. In fact this was exactly what Jesus meant when He said "for they say, and do not do" Matt 23:3.

The flesh cannot be justified by works, and man cannot engineer his own salvation. We require an intercessory grace.

What makes Christianity superior, is what makes it superior in thought and rational understanding, the sheer genious of God as expressed through Jesus Christ, which is unparalleled. It is the keystone or the cornerstone, capable of generating a global transformation.

And I know that there is a bridge capable of transcending all obstacles, and extending God's love to one and all. And that bridge, to universal peace and mutuality isn't Freemasonry.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by dnaobs
Wow, i'm surprised at how many freemasons there are on this board. I'm a little curious as to how they view the bible and jesus? It seems like you take some parts as truth? What about Islam? How can masonry reconcile two very different belief systems and doctrines?

Different Masons have different views on those subjects. As touching religion, each individual has his own. As for me personally, I find much in the Bible that is inspiring. However, I do not view that particular collection of books as inerrant, or any sort of absolute Word of God, and much of it is mythological in nature.

As for Jesus, I believe he was a real person that taught some really good stuff. Later, he was deified by his followers, and I consider the story of his death and resurrection to be a sun myth, a Hebrew version of the Egyptian myth of Osiris or Persian Mithras.

How do you explain quotes like these?

"To you, Sovereign Instructors of Grade 33, we tell you: you have to repeat
to the brothers of inferior grades that we worship only one God to whom we
pray without superstition. It is we, Initiated in the Supreme Grade, that are to keep the real Masonic religion preserving pure the Lucifer doctrine"

- Albert Pike

That one is easily explainable, as it is not a quote from Pike, but is an anti-Masonic hoax, created by a French anti-Mason named Leo Taxil.

Fictions are necessary to the people, and the Truth becomes deadly to those who are not strong enough to contemplate it in all its brilliance. In fact, what can there be in common between the vile multitude and sublime wisdom? The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason.

- Illustrious Albert Pike 33°
Sovereign Grand Commander

This, unlike the first, is a legitimate quote, but is somewhat misleading because those are not Pike's personal words. Instead, Pike was quoting Synesius, Bishop of Ptolemaïs.

You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations.

Ronayne
Handbook of Masonry, page 183

Ronayne was an anti-Mason, the book is an anti-Masonic work, and his words are not legitimate.

Manly P Hall describing the core belief of Freemasonry, the New Age Movement and the coming One World Religion: The Lost Keys of Freemasonry (1923)
"Masonry is a university, teaching the liberal arts and sciences of the soul to all ... It is a shadow of the great Atlantean Mystery School, which stood with all its splendor in the Ancient City of the Golden Gates, where now the turbulent Atlantic rolls in unbroken sweep ... . When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy."

Ya, sounds like a lovely little cult.

This is again misleading because it joins two separate passages, and cuts Hall off in the middle of what he was saying, leaving no explanation as to what he meant. Here is the "Lucifer" passage in its entirety:

The day has come when Fellow Craftsmen must know and apply their
knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion,
which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can
only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability
to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns
that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application
of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his
Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and
before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to
properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his
forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god
hammered his sword into a plowshare. Incessant vigilance over
thought, action, and desire is indispensable to those who wish to
make progress in the unfolding of their own being, and the Fellow
Craft's degree is the degree of transmutation. The hand that slays
must lift the fallen, while the lips given to cursing must be
taught to pray. The heart that hates must learn the mystery of
compassion, as the result of a deeper and more perfect
understanding of man's relation to his brother. The firm, kind
hand of spirit must curb the flaming powers of emotion with an iron
grip. In the realization and application of these principles lies
the key of the Fellow Craft.

Also, it should be fairly noted that when Hall wrote the book, he himself was not even yet a Mason.

This kinda stuff reminds of Jehovah witnesses and Mormons because if they'd just educate themselves about the founding of their belief before they get to involved, they might still have enough reason to perceive the fallacy of what their entire belief system is based upon.

So are we to believe that you have thus examined your own belief system, and found it infallible?

Yes i have examined the history of christianity to a degree, enough to realize that people have taken parts of the whole and used them to further their own personal gains. The catholic church is a perfect example of an establishment perverting scripture, for their own selfish desires.
There may be some minor mistranslations to english and other languages from the original greek and hebrew manuscripts but i believe the account of the gospels and apostles to be true. I don't think these men where decieved into believing these things, and i can't even begin to imagine how they would be. If their lying, and it is a myth, why did they die for it? Many of the apostles where tortured or killed for teaching openly about what they believed, why on earth would you risk your life for something you know to be false? These men didn't gain money or wealth, they got beaten and maimed.
Just because there are similar accounts of other dieties in other beliefs doesn't mean that the jews borrowed or took from them. On the other hand that sounds exactly like what free masonry is.
I'm curious, who established your practices, and who decided what beliefs you should hold and what was true and what was false? Who do you esteem as well learned, and where does your teaching come from? Do you choose what you want to believe because it supports your preconceived opinion or do you keep and open mind to the alternative? Have you ever considered that maybe the bible is true in its accounts, or do you hold the belief that these things are impossible therefore it didn't happen. It's good that you recognize a creator, but you have to be careful about what you hold to be truth about him. Look at scientology, or many of the other cults that have sprung up over time, their often put together not for the good of people but for the benefit of a few. This whole new age movement is drawing from many different religions and beliefs and presenting itself as a clearer understanding of god or life, when it's really just obscuring the truth.
How can you follow only some of christs teachings? He claimed to be god, he's either a lunatic, liar or life. Pick one because a house divided cannot stand.


[edit on 20-3-2009 by dnaobs]