When does a group belief become a cult and why?

Interesting (indicative?) article:

www.csmonitor.com...

We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Coming generations of Christians are going to be monumentally ignorant and unprepared for culture-wide pressures.

There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile. Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.

Look for ministries to take on a less and less distinctively Christian face in order to survive.

The money will dry up.

Evangelicalism doesn't need a bailout. Much of it needs a funeral. But what about what remains?

Despite all of these challenges, it is impossible not to be hopeful. As one commenter has already said, "Christianity loves a crumbling empire."

We can rejoice that in the ruins, new forms of Christian vitality and ministry will be born.

We need new evangelicalism that learns from the past and listens more carefully to what God says about being His people in the midst of a powerful, idolatrous culture.

He doesn't have a "plan"

I'm not happy that these two characters got banned. I understand that we're supposed to play by the rules on ATS, but aren't we acting like a "cult" by excluding dissenting opinions?

These two members needed our guidance the most!

By the way. If you want fast food read Eckhart Tolle. If you want a gourmet meal read about Buddhism. Mr. Tolle's concepts are all based on Buddhism, he "borrows" freely

reply to post by Nichiren


I didn't read Tolle, but it caught my attention: Eckhart like "Meister Eckhart".

Do you have a link to his work?

reply to post by DangerDeath


He's sold millions of books. One of Oprah's favorites. You will be very familiar with his concepts ...

www.eckharttolle.com...

I think you misunderstand... ALL religions start out as a cult of some sort... and this is not a derogatory statement... it means in essence a small group religious or spiritual practice... only when they grow out of that stage do they become religions.

Originally posted by Nichiren
I'm not happy that these two characters got banned. I understand that we're supposed to play by the rules on ATS, but aren't we acting like a "cult" by excluding dissenting opinions?

These two members needed our guidance the most!

By the way. If you want fast food read Eckhart Tolle. If you want a gourmet meal read about Buddhism. Mr. Tolle's concepts are all based on Buddhism, he "borrows" freely

WE did not get them banned, they got themselves banned.
What the reason for their banning is, I do not know. I assume they did not in some way adhere to the T & C.

They can still read so you can still help however they do not seem to want to be helped they feel they are fine.

reply to post by grover


At what point does a cult qualify as a religion? How many members? Why do some cults fail and others succeed?

reply to post by cindymars

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Originally posted by IamNow
reply to post by violet

 

I was going to ask are cults allowed to recruit on ATS, but you answered my question “Thanks”

The next question is why are ATS allowing this, probably none of my business but I am just looking out for other people. Good job we have members like headlightone who picked up on this, I have seen things like this get out of controll and people end up getting hurt and confused.

Just my opinon on the matter.

ATS depends on members reporting such things. There is a button there...

Not really true.
Some were more proactive than others

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Nichiren

 

I didn't read Tolle, but it caught my attention: Eckhart like "Meister Eckhart".

Do you have a link to his work?

I have found Eckhart Tolles work very helpful. He is quoted in my signature . The Power of Now is a must for those that are starting to awaken spiritually.

His work is so easy to read and understand. His principles help me every day.

reply to post by Nichiren


Well, OK but it was still an ATS staff decision.

I am going to have to read this book, I thought, oh he
will not say anything new but hey, it would most likely
have some insights I need.

The discussed cult leader is alive and well on ats right now. I can't prove it, but it's a fact: checked ips would indicate this quickly, by proximity.

You do not help those who want no help, e.g., xtian fanatics. Especially when the leader is plenty of times smarter than the 'helpers.' 2 were banned for inappropriate linking; one comminted ats suicide.

And here we have, on this thread, more of the same, only with a different name. And they will deny this, just like they did, all in the name of 'light and philosophy.'

No wonder this planet needs a cleansing...even the smartest are no brighter than blind insaniacs.

Carry on; you're doing so well...lessons learned. N..

"Oh, what a wonderful day for sharing some 'spiritual' ignorance! That there cult group sure was evil. Yup, nothing like the philosophical clarity we experience. We could of set 'em straight...straight with the buddha, etc."

One of the Four Heads of the Beast. Denial for awhile. Until you get caught with you're pants down, ignorant like the rest.

There are two kinds of light, one the reference beam and the information beam creating the illusory; and the Real, the WORD, the Power Source.

Keep your eyes on the image at all times: two sides of 'evil' and ignorance:

Pribram remained puzzled until the mid 1960's, when he ran across an article in Scientific American describing the construction of laser hologram. He immediately synthesized the information and hypothesized that the mind itself was operating in a holographic manner.

Anatomist Paul Pietsch (1981) simply could not believe Pribram's theory, and he set out to disprove the holographic theory of the brain. After performing thousands of operations on salamanders, he became convinced that the mind perceives and stores information by encoding and decoding complex interference patterns.

A hologram is created by splitting a laser beam into two separate beams. One beam is bounced off an object, and the other serves as a reference beam. An interference pattern is created that bears little resemblance to the object, however, it contains all the information necessary to recreate the image of the object. The most remarkable feature to Pribram was the idea that a photographic plate containing a laser image could be broken in two, and each half would contain the complete image of the object, but with less resolution. This was identical to the way that memory in the brain seemed to be operating. Regardless of how many times the photographic plate was broken, each piece contained the information necessary to reconstruct the entire image.

Pribram hypothesized that the neurons, axions, and dendrites of the brain create wave-like patterns that cause an interference pattern. In 1966 he published his findings and during the next few years he refined his theory. According to Pribram, a holographic theory explains many of the mysteries of the brain, including the enormous capacity of the brain for the storage and retrieval of information.
So Much Ignorance

Religion and philosophy. Science, the liar, is developed in the middle, until it is seen through, at which point it dissolves.

Then the Real-the Source, will be Perceived. No more philosophy and religion, the two black wings of demonology.

reply to post by SS,Naga


If there is one poster who is using "cult language" it would be you. Your posts sound very interesting, but I can't get past the "jargon".

Originally posted by cindymars


I am going to have to read this book, I thought, oh he
will not say anything new but hey, it would most likely
have some insights I need.

Hi Cindy psycho81 recommended me The Power of Now about 3 times, I thought oh yer just another book, but then I just thought oh OK what have I got to loose reading it, psycho seems to think its brilliant so I did read it, and I have never looked back.

It makes everything so much easier to understand and its helped me greatly in life situations.

Its based on the concept that all we really have is our now and by constantly living in our future fear or past regret does not help us one bit.

Its a spiritual awakening book based on his own very real life awakening, although religions are quoted sparingly it is not religion based and so has a wide appeal.

The book is not for everyone but if it is for you you will never look back after reading it.

Yes its been on the Oprah show but so what, if you can just see past this celeb connection and read the book for itself its worth it.

Im reading the second book A New Earth now. I guess you could call them a modern day take on spirituality but isnt that exactly what we need. Something we are able to understand and apply to our every day lives and not try to work thousand year old teachings into our lives in 2009.

reply to post by Nichiren

Yes, the religious, the philosophical would be the first to throw the finger of 'cult talk' accusation, woudln't they?

Because you cannot understand the Energetic Structure & Substance of The WORD (the Real), you lay blame for your ignorance on others, as does the superstitious and childish.

One cannot give knowledge of the WORD away; one cannot shove it down other's throats. It is this exact Ignorance (of) and Innocence (gullibility) that has brought this Beautiful Earth to It's knees (present state/condition).

Parables and Metaphors are the Only way to hint at that which is beyond written communication, beyond syntax, conveyance or comprehension.
I expected exactly this much from you, for one's ignorance and innocence allows them to get Bit by the Serpent (of Wisdom). And it does bite, but that you may not learn this lifetime....only feel the pain thereof, never discover the serpent in your own Self.

Continued...

Living In The Now..

Everyone tells you that you must learn to exist in the moment, but no one tells you how. You cannot exist in the moment; there is too much of yourself to do that.

You have to be as whole as the moment can afford you that possibility and you have to become conscious of other dimensional probabilities.
("Scales of the Dragon," A.Dragon)

Unconscious ~ Conscious ~ Supraconscious

See the one in the middle? That's why you cannot live in the now.

You cannot eradicate the past and the unknown, until you reconcile with it (Integration).

You cannot live in future and All, until you open to it (Integration).

Past - Present - Future exist as One,
barriered by the Two Mighty Barriers of Being and Knowing.

The Uncosncious is all that is forgotten, the future is all that is unknown.
Together, they create both the Outer and the Inner of the Allverse (multidimensional universe potentiality-'reality').

Few of you even suspect that you are manifesting the entire known Unvirse with Your Presence & Power of Being. The Observer Observed.

Rather than attempting the cildish, directions given to you by older children, embrace the Truth of Integration: The Double-Vortexes and The Eye of the Vortexes: you will fell suffocated, but Integration is better than Annihilation.

However, you can also continue on the road to awakening and bliss and enlightenment and religion and philosphy and now-living...
and enjoy the beautiful illusion while it lasts,
Or you can suffer the Truth and utilize
The Gift of Life for the Work of Life:
Integration.

Monsters dwell in your Uncosncious (unknown)
Demons in your Supraconscious (unknown)
Eaters of Lifeforce in the conscious (unknown-known-unknown).

It ain't a pretty ride, nor a lovely journey,
yet the Unknowable is your Destination,
Annihilation: Death-Rebirth-Resurrection.

Wear the Black Wings to Escape. Sure.
(Maybe next time?!)

Oh, the pain fo the parable and the metaphor. It is like a fairy tale story told to children, who loved it, but didn't 'get it.'

The Return of the Etherians, passing through the Veil of Forgetfullness,
ready to give their All at the Remembering.

A moment comes, and memories return, like a Bolt of Instant Knowing.

Many are unacceptible to general society, so they have learned to hide;
hide, and resemble that which they aren't, ignorant.

A bird takes flight, it's wings beating in unison. Love and Wisdom, the
Two Wings of Mind or Soul. Love is Feminine Spirit, Wisdom is Masculine Matter:
each must balance the other, else the bird will fall.

Those who think spirituality is the Grail, are wrong and misled.
Those who think materiality is the real, are wrong and misled.

Like Fire leaps to Air, when this balance is achieved,
the memories are recalled, and the Phoenix will Arise.
image by trizcat: firebird, 2009

The Power of Now has helped me and millions of others so for me I accept its teachings. It has awoken me to many things that before I was asleep to.

It has shown me that I am not my mind I am pure consciousness, and as I learn to filter out the constant chatter of my mind I find I can hear myself, my real self, my inner spiritual core speaking to me.

It is this core that is connected to the source, its always been connected Ive just forgot the connection was there. Ascension is the re connection to the source, the awakening of who we really are, how we are not these bodies we find ourselves in, these are shells. We are a soul from the one (source) within a body and not a body with a mind.

This is what I believe and I believe it so fully to my very being, it is the only thing that has truely resonated with me and because of this it is my truth. It may not be your truth, it is your path to find your truth but in the end all truths lead back to the source anyway, eventually, even the beliefs of cults....eventually.

reply to post by SS,Naga


A friend of mine used to have something similar to your signature, when he explained it I understood it totally but find Ive forgot what he said. Can you explain it again for me if possible.

Thanks.

Originally posted by SS,Naga
reply to post by Nichiren

 

Yes, the religious, the philosophical would be the first to throw the finger of 'cult talk' accusation, woudln't they?

Because you cannot understand the Energetic Structure & Substance of The WORD (the Real), you lay blame for your ignorance on others, as does the superstitious and childish.

One cannot give knowledge of the WORD away; one cannot shove it down other's throats. It is this exact Ignorance (of) and Innocence (gullibility) that has brought this Beautiful Earth to It's knees (present state/condition).

Parables and Metaphors are the Only way to hint at that which is beyond written communication, beyond syntax, conveyance or comprehension.
I expected exactly this much from you, for one's ignorance and innocence allows them to get Bit by the Serpent (of Wisdom). And it does bite, but that you may not learn this lifetime....only feel the pain thereof, never discover the serpent in your own Self.

Continued...

I rest my case

I actually didn't expect that much hurt ego coming from you, but that would be another thread.

reply to post by Mr Green


Thanks MG...its just I know and understand the concept of the moment/ the Now and have been at "attempting" to live it for years. There is a very old book called "Be here Now" by Ram Dass (sp)...

However it may be a fresh look at what I know intellectually but constantly
continue to do. Not easy. My friend is all gungho on an old book she rediscovered called "Handbook to Higher Consciousness" by Kenneth Keyes, she really wants me to read it. Since my boss has made me take a 2 week unpaid vacation coming up, maybe I will do some reading.