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When does a group belief become a cult and why?

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posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by cindymars
reply to post by Mr Green
 


Thanks MG...its just I know and understand the concept of the moment/ the Now and have been at "attempting" to live it for years. There is a very old book called "Be here Now" by Ram Dass (sp)...

However it may be a fresh look at what I know intellectually but constantly
continue to do. Not easy.


Oh how annoying I just did a reply to you and its lost. I will try again!

I was saying how you are right in that the Now is a concept and it is by no means limited to E Tolle which he openly states. He experienced a very strong awakening and knew he had to put it into words. Many do say it is similar to the early teachings of Buddha but it is not a Buddhism book, the concept is of no religion. Its simply a guide to Spiritual Enlightenment.


The good thing about the teachings of living in the now are that they can be applied to everyday life, you dont have to be a monk or a nun to follow it, you just simply become it by using your absolute awarness of pure consciousness, this is a simple concept but it is one most of us have forgotten how to do. I find it very hard to switch the chatter of my mind off, but when I do I can feel and hear my absolute being shine through. Its just about becoming aware of our inner self, to let go of the connection we keep with self identification through our past and projected futures (all false self). When we are finally able to surrender totally to our now and stop hanging on to fear and negative emotions we find we feel more alive and more awake than ever before. We feel more alive because we have moved our consciousness into its very moment of existance, into its NOW.

This for me is exactly where I should be, this is why this concept helps me so much, and why it has helped millions all over the world. It may not be for everyone, but thats OK too. We find things that we need when we need them it is up to us to listen to our inner guide to turn away from things that say they are for us when really they are not.



[edit on 11-3-2009 by Mr Green]




posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Nichiren
 


You had best stick to your philosophy; the mind can grasp this.

And later, after you move beyond your philosophy of conceptualizations,
practice your signature suggestion (wake up!).

In the meantime, thanks for your input/downput slash ignorance/philosophical fervor. wondrous! A mind in the making.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


I agree MG. Try brushing your teeth without any thoughts other than brushing teeth. Or any action of the Now! LOL

Also when sothething keeps showing up, like this book.
There clearly may be something I need to get from it.
So thanks again.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by cindymars]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by SS,Naga
 


Your "keen" intuition is failing you miserably. You're assuming too many things about me.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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The language of symbols is like a computer language (C, FORTRAN, Basic, etc.). Each symbol or command stands for a series of instructions. If you don't know those instructions, you can't understand this language.

Even if you can speak the symbolic language, or computer language, it doesn't mean that you understand the underlying "machine" language, because you need to compile instructions so the "machine" will be able to 'understand" it.

However, knowing the principles of how things really "work", "the order and connection" of things, will make you capable of seeing through the language, and deconstruct it as the "bearer of the meaning". Language disappears when one knows the "substratum".

When I hear something that sounds "logical" I close my ears...

Logical statements are like bullets, they kill and make you consent.
Cult practice is all about that.


Reading someones mind (telepathy) is not actually "receiving thoughts" - it is knowing the intent behind the spoken. It is not expressed in words (symbols).



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by DangerDeath
 


1+1=2

Silver bullet?



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Nichiren
 


1+1=1+1

Some people always get what they want



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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A painter who realizes that paper is burning, gives up painting.




posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


I just want to mention that Buddhism is not a "religion" in the common sense. Here is a quote from this source:

www.buddhanet.net...

"In Buddhism there is not, as in most other religions, an Almighty God to be obeyed and feared. The Buddha does not believe in a cosmic potentate, omniscient and omnipresent. In Buddhism there are no divine revelations or divine messengers. A Buddhist is, therefore, not subservient to any higher supernatural power which controls his destinies and which arbitrarily rewards and punishes. Since Buddhists do not believe in revelations of a divine being Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion. But Buddhism recognizes the infinite latent possibilities of man and teaches that man can gain deliverance from suffering by his own efforts independent of divine help or mediating priests.

Buddhism cannot, therefore, strictly be called a religion because it is neither a system of faith and worship, nor "the outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a God or gods having power over their own destiny to whom obedience, service, and honor are due."

If, by religion, is meant "a teaching which takes a view of life that is more than superficial, a teaching which looks into life and not merely at it, a teaching which furnishes men with a guide to conduct that is in accord with this its in-look, a teaching which enables those who give it heed to face life with fortitude and death with serenity,"



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
A painter who realizes that paper is burning, gives up painting.



I like!

All the best.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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I May have discovered the green shoots of another cult

The Power Of Now Cult.
For it Seems that some posters here are more in the NOW than others.
Its developing into a situation where one is arguing that they are more in the now than another.
I Will Smite thee for I am far more in the NOW than thou.
NO I Will strike thee down for I shine more in the NOW than thou.
SILENCE Listen thee for I am in the NOW NOW and I Will punish all who speaketh against me thou must yield now.


On a more serious note I do believe the teachings of Eckhart Tolle and hope that one day they will become more mainstream.


[edit on 11-3-2009 by headlightone]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by headlightone
On a more serious note I do believe the teachings of Eckhart Tolle and hope that one day they will become more mainstream.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by headlightone]


It's been mainstream to 1,5 billion people for a long time ;-)



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Buddhism is an 'ism.' But not like any other 'ism.' It is an 'ism' exempt from 'ismness,' assuredly. And they all love one another, and practice kindliess, lacking derision, and ruthless stone throwing behavior, under the tutelage of freedom of 'constricting' beliefs.

Now, there's some spurious dissembling*. I doubt anyone who truly looked could find the head or tail of that philosophy, but could readily get bit by it when they did. Hey, that's not an 'ism,' but watch out, it's actually an 'ism,' sort of. A snake (cult), by any other name...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

(*dis·sem·bling: To disguise or conceal behind a false appearance.)

The Four Heads of the Beast
Kriste, Buddha, Brahma, Thoth (Mohammedanism)

"And the Beast divided itself into four great heads, and
possessed the Earth about; and man fell down and
worshipped them."

OAHSPE, John B. Newbrough., 1884


Like that didn't happen.

"Could I get another plate of philosophy over here! I'm still hungry."

(Where's Paul Richards to explain this 'not a cultism,' when he's the best at it? These amateurs are so obvious.)

[edit on 11-3-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Green
Its based on the concept that all we really have is our now and by constantly living in our future fear or past regret does not help us one bit.

Its a spiritual awakening book based on his own very real life awakening, although religions are quoted sparingly it is not religion based and so has a wide appeal.


I haven't read the Power Of Now book, but whatever it's about it seems to make sense to live for today - if that's what it pertains to. I've sort of developed this thought process lately by my own doing, because I'm currently in a stressful situation. I dwell on the past too much, and then worry what the future outcome will be. It occurred to me I need to stop doing this, it was making me ill. I'm trying hard not to waste my time and energy on worrying what my future holds, how do I know how it will turn out anyways? It could very well turn out good or maybe not and I'll have to deal with it, and cross that bridge when I get to it. These would be things I don't have much control over, not about things I can change. Half the time it ended up I worried about something over nothing. I also think you can worry about something so much you could actually manifest these fears to occur by sending out these negative thoughtforms. However it's not always easy to overcome overwhelming thoughts or stressful events, it's not being realistic or practical to be running in this mode all the time. Vigilance is still necessary.

Today isn't a bad day for me, so why make it a bad day wondering if tomorrow or next year will be?

[edit on 11-3-2009 by violet]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by headlightone
I May have discovered the green shoots of another cult

The Power Of Now Cult.
.


On a more serious note I do believe the teachings of Eckhart Tolle and hope that one day they will become more mainstream.


[edit on 11-3-2009 by headlightone]


And I was trying SO hard not to leave one cult only to find another.


But seriously as you say The Power of Now is a good concept, and because it has your being at its centre, you are the focus of your awarness nothing else, it has no leader ( E Tolle is just a messenger) and it teaches us that we are all connected to the source as one and that all we will ever need is already within, such teachings CAN NEVER become a cult .

The only way these teachings will become a cult are if someone takes them as a base of truth for their cult then twists them and adds on bits that manipulate and confuse. Just as all other cults do, they take a truth to attract followers then manipulate it for their own gain.

No cult can ever be formed around the basic truths of living in the now.

Why? Because the power of now is all about giving back the responsability of finding enlightenment BACK to the individual. We dont need gurus, cult leaders or teachers because on the path to enlightenment we are all students. Each one of us is a student to the teacher within. The power of now connects the student in you to the teacher within you.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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Long time ago, a friend asked me: What is Buddhism?
I replied: It's an attitude!

Later, thinking about life, I have realized that life is a time-out.
Are you ready to die?
No, wait, wait, I need more time!

In time-out nothing can be decided. You look for advice, you take it from your coach or friends, but then you go back to playing the game and you're on your own. You must act.

The attitude of Buddhism is to face everything at its face value. Examine phenomena. If it can be taken apart, take it apart. Whatever it is, take it apart. Look for what cannot be taken apart, that is your foothold.

Life? It most certainly can be taken apart. Take it apart, see what it really is - it is not you. It is your experience, that's all. You experience life, you consume life as such, life is finished. Your experience stays. It cannot be destroyed.

Death? Death of life? They are the same. It all depends of your attitude. When you understand life, there is no more death. It goes away together with life.

Life: past and future. But in the now, life is just a projection. You can see that, it is not hidden.

How do you relate to projection? You understand it. That is all. It comes, it lasts awhile, and it is gone. Your knowledge stays. That is now, it can not be measured by life or death. There is no unit of time to measure it. There is no unit of size to measure it.

Being in the now is joyful because knowledge is joy. It is the everlasting joy. The suffering ends now.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
Now, there's some spurious dissembling*. I doubt anyone who truly looked could find the head or tail of that philosophy, but could readily get bit by it when they did. Hey, that's not an 'ism,' but watch out, it's actually an 'ism,' sort of. A snake (cult), by any other name...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

(*dis·sem·bling: To disguise or conceal behind a false appearance.)

The Four Heads of the Beast


"And the Beast divided itself into four great heads, and
possessed the Earth about; and man fell down and
worshipped them."

OAHSPE, John B. Newbrough., 1884



[edit on 11-3-2009 by SS,Naga]


Well Im not sure what this actually means that the head of the beast was split into 4 ways of Kriste, Buddha, Brahma, Thoth (Mohammedanism) and what actually the beast was, but all I know is at this moment in time ...for me....the power of now works. It works because it isnt a religion it just simply is.
Are you saying that Buddhism is wrong and it is actually the worshipping of the beast? I really cant see how.

I admit Ive struggeled of recent to see clearly, but for me the power of now has been my saviour, it gave me the confidence to believe in myself, to develop the awarness required to break away from manipulative teachings, and for me that is the greatest confirmation I need. the power of now gave me back my awarness that another had taken away from me and for this I can only be thankful.

The power of now gave me back myself, the self the cult took away. A cult removes the self it is loss of self, becoming aware through the power of my now has given me back myself. What is wrong/of the beast about that?



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


Did you pay for the book? Do you know what I'm getting at



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by SS,Naga
 


Dear friend,

you are confused, but believe to see clearly. May I ask what has shaped your belief system?

I do not trust anybody who claims to know the truth and speaks in absolute terms. These are red flags to me.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Mr Green
 


I just want to mention that Buddhism is not a "religion" in the common sense. Here is a quote from this source:

www.buddhanet.net...



Thanks I liked your link very much.

What does the word Buddha actually mean? Buddha quite simply means "the awakened one". So in truth we can ALL become buddha, we all have the potential to become an awakened one. We should try not to quote buddha but maybe just be the buddha because to be the buddha is to be awakened.

Too many people seek or try or desire or want to be the awakened one, this to me is wrong because none of these words are of the now, they are all of the future of seeking and wanting . By becoming present we simple find our being, we become our being, we become buddha we become the awakened one.

I think your right this is possible because at its roots buddhism or living in the now isnt a religion as such and it definatly is NOT a cult.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by Mr Green]




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