Spare the Rod , Spoil the Child (today's youth)

Yes, indeed, parenting is an art. Not all cars take the same tools or need the same parts, not all children take the same methods or need the same levels of reprehension. Parents have to take the time to know their children and know what works.

This is where money, as usual, comes in and messes everything up. So many couples spend so much time working that they neglect the parenting. Sometimes the extra car and the extra room isn't worth it, you know? Many of the western world's spoiled brats are a product of economically provoked neglect, and this the parents cannot be blamed for, they are doing what they feel is right.

Overall the traditional system works best, the man works to provide for the family and is the main authority for the children, and the woman stays at home and makes sure the kids grow up right. Gender reversal also works, I'm not being machista here, the point is parenting is a full time job.

Modern schools also have part of the blame, some of them are psychological warzones, and a lot of teachers have very little connection to the students. Having preteens spend most of the day with negligent supervision is asking for trouble.

And parenting will never be perfect, one can only do one's best and hope that when they reach adulthood they continue their own development as best they can. Personal development is just that, personal, the parents don't explain everything neither can they avoid everything. There will be up's and there will be down's, I guess in the end it will be an average.

reply to post by Trayen11


Great post.

I am sure social security workers mean well, but sometimes they are way out of line. There are a lot of social security protected children in foster homes that do ok, but those that are just in the system are probably worse off for it. There is a very real risk of them being sucked into pedophile rings or just simple abuse. There is a dark side to social security every parent should be aware of, and that pushy arrogant type of control freak atitude you describe could be indicative of a psycopathy, as is described in the last two links of my signature.

I have always had a dilemma with this. I´m 24 and I was raised in a sect or cult.(whatever you want to call it) we (all the kids) got a lot of spankings for everything, even the dumbest things. If a teacher was angry he could spank you just for the hell of it. we as kids had to work a lot (cleaning plus other kinds of labour), and always got harsh punishment when refused to. our behavior had the highest standers that of an adult. We were expected to behave with perfect manners and to behave as adults.

When I think about those days it feels like I grew up in an army. I left the cult at the age of 16 and have been living a normal life, but I have never seen kids as good as the ones who grew up with me I mean perfect kids, you could ask us to sit and be quiet for hours and i swear to god you would have not heard a sound, clean this we would, do this, do that, all like an army we would protect each other cover each others backs we where all very clever and smart. Extremely kind generous hard working kids respectful to the highest standers. (of course we were trained this way to be shown off to the world) now days i´m a chef and i have worked under the hardest circumstances with all the pressure, strain, stress, and tension you can imagine, sometimes to a point of a oppressive condition even of a physical and mental distress. all of which normal people suffer. But for me it does not compare to when I was a child. I can only feel nostalgia. that is why I would not change a single thing about my childhood.
I believe in discipline and that it works. but not for everybody. Now if I ever become a father i will never hit my kids i don't believe in violence. but they will have to work a lot i think this is the best way. If your kid does something wrong make him work to redeem him self i believe a child can learn this concept. When we where kids and we messed up (which was inevitable) we always look for a way to redeem ourselves and prove that we where perfect.
So maybe it works maybe not

reply to post by Fables

Thats a hard post to read , you sound like you adjusted quite well . Its easy to tell your intelligent and realize that thats not what im referring to as a spanking or smack in the head . I can also see why you swung full circle against it. Best to you.

reply to post by Trayen11


Good God you storie pi$$ed me off so bad were in the world does this women get the right to tell you what is right for your own kid is she a proffesional in the area of child rearing? Also then Walmart kicks you out on allegations and a visit from cps wow if this is true it should scare the heck out of everybody. Thanks for sharing your story.

This is the reason right here why I do not spank my children. Its due to social services. Even the schools will get there noses in your business. My son had an infection on his hand from a cat scratch. His teacher saw it and reported me for child abuse stating that I had burned him with a Cigt. At the time I didnt even smoke nor did my husband, yet I was hauled clear to Raleigh and had to have a specialist prove that it was not a cigt. burn on my sons hand. In the mean time I was in cuffs in front of all 3 of my children. Yet I did nothing wrong. It was proven I did nothing wrong yet I never once got a single "I am sorry".

I have to say that I was so freaken embarrased by all of that. At the time I worked for the Wake county Police and here they were about ready to arrest me for child abuse. The same folks that I worked with. So believe me I was not in a good mood. And my son wouldnt say no my mom didnt burn me. All he would do is sit there and agree to everything they asked him. So believe me I wont even touch one of my kids no matter how bad they are.

I however have threatened my son that if he continues, I personally will call Child services and tell them to take him. Because I will only take so much.

Its certainly disturbing that with all the kids on the streets , kids on drugs and early pregnacies that Social Services deems their time worthy looking in and interfering with decent parents

reply to post by frankdatank


Unfortunatley the story is 100% true. It sickens me at the thought of how some people can think they have any right to meddle in others buisness. I do however thank my daughter for having the guts to stand up to these people for me.

I treat my children with respect, honesty and dignity. I tell them things the way they are, I dont suger coat things. It's the way i was raised and i love my mom and dad for it. It has prepared me for adulthood alot better than if they would have shielded me.

I dont think that hitting your kids will make them more polite, no matter if u smack, spank, or hit them with a belt. I think time outs for little kids work, and grounding works if there teens. I have friends that never got grounded and they call there mom the "b" word, which I would never dream of doing. I got grounded alot when I was 8-13, but when ever I got smacked or hit or physically punished or screamed at it just made me more mad, and eventually pushed me over the line. Ive seen this happen to some of my friends too. I think if you want your kid to behave and act appropriate, you should be a good role model, ground them if they need it, and talk to them, dont scream but talk to them sternly.

time out's and grounding's are good...

But what are you going to do when that 16 year old say's Fak you mom and dad..your not big enough to ground me!!!!!

and punch's cuss's at you.
Let him walk out the door to do what he want's?
say...
that's another time out mister..taping foot lmfao

You are going to whoop the kids but and you know it.lol

You talk about telling and teaching you kid how it is in life...not candy coating it ect...
He cuss's or hit's people when he get's mad not getting his way in life..people are not gonna scream TIME OUT TIME OUT!!!! they are gonna kick his but in school and other places the rest of his life...

so in a way you are doing the kids a injustice by not spanking and whooping your kids.

talk is cheap some time's....

reply to post by TheAmused

im 16 and i would never dream of doing that. to my dad I would because he kicks me out anyways. But my mom never hit me or smacked me or touched me. I get into arguements with her but who doesnt with there parents. Believe it or not kids arent that bad.

Kids are lonely and miserable and unsocialized. People expect babies to sleep like adults, for 12 hours in a bed by themselves. We expect them to sleep through the night at 3 months. If they baby won't sleep, we ignore every instinct and force them to cry themselves to sleep. Where most countries don't expect a child to sleep through the night till they are four. Or sleep by themselves. A baby doesn't even know they are seperate being from you till 1 - 1.5. Both parents work and stick them in an institution to be watched by some adult watching a bunch of other children that is not theirs. We have an isolationist attitude that all families have to be seperate. So instead of being around other relatives, they are lucky to see more then one adult at a time. When children go to school many come home to empty houses. Then we stick them in a bunch of sports and watch from the sidelines. Many don't even get to sit down and have dinner as a family.

My job takes me into many rich people's homes and a parent will work from home, and stick their kid in a play room to watch tv while they work.

no where else do they do this, the whole family takes care of the child, they are always surrounded by someone who loves them, aunts, grandparents, etc. Instead, these families are seen a few times a year and live miles and miles away.

When the parents come home they are so tired that they will give their children toys and technology to keep them pacified so they don't have to bother with them.

children act out when they need attention. They become teens and still need attention. They portray violence and sex because they are so desperate for validation, that even negative attention is still attention.

It is not about the dicipline, it is about the lack of social structure. I see so many children my son's age who are shy and don't know how to react to people because they hardly see any. So what happens when you put children into constant isolation from birth? They don't know how to act.

nature didn't design children to sleep in a room all night by themselves, to be by themselves constantly. No wonder they are neurotic.Discipline has nothign to do with it.

Let me start by saying I am 29 years old, not a child as some of the posters.

Ok, as I grew up I was emotionally, physically, and mentally abused, never sexually though(thank god). When I say physically I mean with fists, when I say mentally I mean I was told I was worthless, when I say emotionally, I mean I was never aloud my own feelings. I raised my brother when I was no more than a teenager, I watched drug abuse destroy my mother and my family. I had my baby brother murdered by my step-father when he was 5 weeks old.

And from that I have a successful career, I take care of myself physically, I have a loving and thoughtful relationship with my wife. I actually have a loving relationship with my mother who is now "clean". I know what I want in life, I have never touched any "hard" drugs aside from MJ. I did have a drinking problem in my early twenties, but have not had a sip in 4 years.

So in all that I went through, I believe I turned out not only fine but exceptional. Do I believe you should hit your children? No. But I do believe a good spanking up until age 10 is fine. Young children understand that better than "talking" it out. There is no reasoning with children, wonderful as they are.

It boils down to this, not everyone is a product of their environment, some are just born "off", I won't say bad because we can learn to deal with what is dark in all of us.

Gnosis111

Originally posted by branty
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

im just curious as to your daughters age? If she's quite young, what im talking about is a teen to older age group, if she's in that age group, you've done a nice job. I don't think my post reflected every child, some grow up just fine with never a wary look from a parent.

Ah. Ok. She is six, now, but it's so hard to remember that. She has a better vocabulary than some adults, and is confident, self-willed, and very bright. I think of her as an adult in small packaging! LOL!

I guess I'll see where we go from here.

Yet another phrase for those with no parenting skills.

I have an idea - instead of talking up how hitting children is so great, why don't you take a parenting class?

SHOCKING. The idea that you might need to treat parenting as a SKILL and not like you are a tiger with cubs.

reply to post by Aeons

well I see you read the op, but you didn"t read the reply postings, If you did it may be educating

There is a book every parent should be required to read called" How to raise an emotionally intelligent child" by John Gottman. Gottman has done amazing things not only in children's psychology, but he is the one who, after years of study, found that he can predict up to 90% accuracy, which couples are gonna get divorced. he developed the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse of Marriage,t he four surefire things that break couples apart. The really big one being contempt.

What psychologists are finding now that is a lot of problems extend at parents are completely dismissive of children's feelings. Now before this gets a rise out of anyone, there is more to it then meets the eye.

Parents can do this even when they are interacting with best of intentions. Everyone assumes because a child is not mature and little, that their feelings can be dismissed. Parents also operate under the notion that children must be happy all the time, and have no idea what to do with sad, hurt, and angry children. So we bribe them, distract them, and do everything but teach the child how to effectively and maturely deal with their emotions.

Another doctor, who wrote the "Happiest Baby on the Block" and should be dubbed with sainthood for it, IMHO, wrote the Happiest Toddler on teh Block. And came up with a completely unorthodox method of handling tantrums. By actually mimicking the tantrum back to the child. You feel silly, and you have to get away from the feeling that you are taunting, but you sincerely mimic a tantrum, using three words or less, in a an empathetic form back to the child. And it works like a charm, unless your kid is hungry or really tire. The reason being, is that children have tantrums because they are not being heard or understood.
When you use their level of communication, on their terms, they feel heard. Half the time they don't even care that the problem has been resolved, they are just happy someone speaks their language, and didn't try tricks like distracting or avoiding the problem or telling them to shut up.


Dr. Gottman makes a point that parents are so focused on academic or physical achievement that the emotional gets ignored. But emotional intelligence is the most important, for if you can't function in society and you can't finish a project without leaving in a tantrum, it doesn't matter how smart you are. How man "genisus" have you known that are flipping burgers?

Hence my whole statemen earlier about children not getting enough attention.

reply to post by branty


I think the first thing to realize is it is not the child's fault, but that of the parent. A parent should be the one to use discipline when it is necessary. Time outs and other forms can be quite effective if the child knows the parent means it.

I have worked with troubled adolescent boys who were physically beaten and punished. I would have to disagree with the use of any form of physical punishment. I met a boy whose parents used a cattle prod on him. He wanted to go back home, because he felt he deserved such punishment. No one deserves that kind of treatment.

When I became a parent, I made sure not to use such types of punishment, and would count to ten myself if I got angry. I was a foster parent, and adopted two boys and did a good job raising them to be fine young men. I did not have to raise a hand to them, and it is unfortunate that someone did that to them in the past.

I think I speak for many here when I state that parenting is not always an easy job, and sometimes one has to be a parent instead of a friend when they have to be. However, most times a parent can be both. Physical punishment is never acceptable.

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that there are quite a few people out there who have no business having children. I'm 27, still fairly young, but older than my parents were when they had me. I got married last October, and within 2 months, people at work and my family asked when we were planning to have children. My response, as well as my wife's for that matter, is that we do not plan to have any children. Why? Because both of us know we are in no way ready for such a thing, if ever. So many people aren't prepared for having children at all and really need to consider that fact beforehand.

I got my ass whipped when I was a kid and I deserved everyone of them. I was an jack --- as a kid and because my parents whipped me I grew up into a respectful, law abidding man.

When I have children I will not treat them as my equal, because they aren't. I will treat them the way I was raised. I will be loving, playful, fair and just. I will spoil them when I can and whip them when I have to.