Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

reply to post by dbates


dbates... a slightly off topic but question to your post..

I've just watched the videos on here that explain in idiot terms the concept of the 10 dimentions, It's a lot to get your head around but my way of understanding it was:

we cannot see the whole of our 3D universe/timeline, but we can look at the whole of a 2D universe, like looking down on it from above...

So you can only see a whole universe from outside that one, a 4D will see all of ours etc etc.... untill you bring in the concept of God .... to see everything he would (by my thinking) need to be outside the 10th dimension, but the 10th dimension encompasses all of all there is so where then is God??????

My brains hurting now, lol, I hope you understand my post....

Faith cannot be broken by the twisting of words or incomplete understanding.

Originally posted by nj2day
On top of that... where are your sources for claiming the 11th dimension? I dont' see it in the bible anywhere...

Clearly God is external to the Universe. You need dive no deeper than the first verse in the Bible to see this.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by nj2day
On top of that... where are your sources for claiming the 11th dimension? I dont' see it in the bible anywhere...

Clearly God is external to the Universe. You need dive no deeper than the first verse in the Bible to see this.

Than god clearly cannot be in the 10th dimension... all dimensions are part of the universe, we just can't see them, because we only live in 4 dimensions.

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by badmedia

 

Oh I'm not on a search for truth anymore... I gave that up a long time ago... the second you say you are, all you get is christian rhetoric thrown at you in hopes that some of it sticks.

I've read the bible more times than most christians... probably more times than most atheists...

I will not, however, accept just any plain o'l explanation without evidence or source materials. I am not a person of faith.

And moving "god" to the 10th dimension is seriously moving the goalposts... the idea is to always keep "god" just outside of our boundries of exploration.

thats why I ask... what happens if String theory fails again? and there is no 10th dimension? Does your religion end?

Nope, god will be moved somewhere else.

"I MUST have proof or it does not exist."

Prove LOVE exists.


That absolute hubris of asking GOD (whomever you see as a God) to prove their existance to you or you will not believe.

I apologize for all those Christians out there that upset your delicate state by saying that if you don't believe you will go to hell.

That is not true. If you don't believe then you will not meet God when you die. Christians believe that not seeing God, experiencing his love, that is true death.

If you want others to experience Gods love then you lead by exmple; become the light that will lead them. Do that through acts of kindness and understanding, feed others, teach others, be there for others that have been shunned by the likes of you...closed minded people who strive to degrade beliefs.

I hope you fing peace. because the anger you show leads me to believe that you are afraid. People fear what they do not understand.

reply to post by kinglizard



I see where you are coming from and it is pretty much true..

But do you not think (assuming that the bible is REALLY what it's said to be) that there would be no relatively simple errors like this? If any at all...

Sorry I had to pop this question.

Just for a second in your Bible journey.. did it ever occur you to it was written as analogies and situations that people could understand?
Also in a time far less advanced?

If you were never exposed to a radio or taught about it, you wouldnt know radio waves existed. If you were taught about how the way thermal imaging worked, or IR, you wouldn't know such feats were possible.

Basically, I dont know even what the hell I believe in anymore.

But I DO KNOW that the stage we're in, just because you can't see or touch something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and to deny such is just ignorant

Originally posted by crmanager
"I MUST have proof or it does not exist."

Prove LOVE exists.

Ok... www.eurekalert.org...
that was easy... or was it supposed to be more complex than that?

I apologize for all those Christians out there that upset your delicate state by saying that if you don't believe you will go to hell.

I didn't say that... But if hell exists... its gotta be where the party's at.

That is not true. If you don't believe then you will not meet God when you die. Christians believe that not seeing God, experiencing his love, that is true death.

Would be nice if there was some sort of evidence for an afterlife... it isn't necessarily comforting to know that your ultimate destination is worm food... But unfortunately, the universe doesn't bend to the aspirations of man.

If you want others to experience Gods love then you lead by exmple; become the light that will lead them. Do that through acts of kindness and understanding, feed others, teach others, be there for others that have been shunned by the likes of you...closed minded people who strive to degrade beliefs.

But wait a min... how am I any more close minded than a believer? Isn't refusing to consider scientific evidence contrary to your beliefs a little close minded?

I hope you fing peace. because the anger you show leads me to believe that you are afraid. People fear what they do not understand.

Why does disbelief always mean anger? Is this how you christian types rationalize atheism? We don't believe, therefore we must be angry?

You'll know when I get angry... trust me

reply to post by nj2day

You mean to tell me that you can't be in the 2nd dimension if you exist in a higher dimension? I wasn't pinning God down to a dimension, just explaining that time and possibility had no meaning to God. God is of course outside of all space/time.

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
but the 10th dimension encompasses all of all there is so where then is God??????

My brains hurting now, lol, I hope you understand my post....

Yes I understand exactly. I don't think we have the ability to comprehend God's position, but yes as you stated he would need to be external to the 10th dimension to have created all that there is. He's in the projection room where the Universe is deleted and redrawn during each division of plank time. Which of course could all just be taking place in his imagination. nj2day really only exists in God's imagination.

I don't know about the video, but the reasoning is good.
Along with about a ton of other reasons that I can think of for why God isn't real.

Don't try and use emotions in this debate.

There is pretty much no argument that emotions like love, hate, sadness etc. don't exist.

I see what you are trying to say, that just because its not something we can see or physically feel it doesn't mean it's not real but emotions are totally different.

I believe that emotions are caused by chemicals in our body mixing together. That means I also believe that if (when) we discover which chemicals make us love something or someone that we will be able to 'create' a physical form of love... Or some sort of 'love potion'

Originally posted by n1zzzn
Sorry I had to pop this question.

Just for a second in your Bible journey.. did it ever occur you to it was written as analogies and situations that people could understand?
Also in a time far less advanced?

LOL but the bible itself is reliant on the literal meanings... Think about it...
If Adam and Eve were symbolic, than the idea of original sin is out of the window... if original sin doesn't exist, than your new testament turns into a story of a deranged individual who died for no reason.

That doesn't work...

I could dig up scripture, but frankly, I'm not feeling the need to with this argument as of yet...

If you were never exposed to a radio or taught about it, you wouldnt know radio waves existed. If you were taught about how the way thermal imaging worked, or IR, you wouldn't know such feats were possible.

Yah, in fact, one might be inclined to think that some supernatural power was at work huh? Something akin to god?

Well if I put those in a book and preach them for 2000 years...

Basically, I dont know even what the hell I believe in anymore.

hehe, well I'd take a look at all materials provided, and make a decision based off all available information... not just stick with what you've been taught because that's what you believe...

But I DO KNOW that the stage we're in, just because you can't see or touch something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and to deny such is just ignorant

But, everything that we can't see/touch but exists, can be deduced from watching the affects it has on it's surroundings.

We've never seen a black hole... but we can show that they exist quite conclusively...

You can't apply the same test to religion... thats the problem.

So if sinners go to 'hell' or eternal damnation.. whatever... and the non-sinners go to heaven why would you want to actually go to heaven?

Do you assume that if you live a life without sinning at all you will be rewarded by being allowed to go party and do whatever you like?

Everyone thinks heaven is some sort of amazing place... its probably full of boring old nuns and the occasional over-enthusiastic preacher...

This might seem like a weak argument but you can't have a lot of fun without sinning to be honest....

Ahh yes. Understanding the incomprehensible. Knowing the unknowable. Tough road, eh?

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know, because they are spiritually discerned.
I Corinthians 2:14

You can't reason or logic your way into it. It just isn't doable. And I'm not suggesting you have to do anything else, just know that's not the road to take if you're seriously looking. It's a great road if your mind is already made up and you're reaching for substantiation for what you've already decided is true.

Taking words and our invented definitions for them and trying to apply them to an incomprehensible principle is a futile exercise. If it makes you feel better, that's great. But it will do nothing to convince anyone who is on a spiritual path to abandon it.

Peace out.



[edit on 2/19/2009 by yeahright]

Here is a movie to rest a thought on Knowledge will get you nearly to the end. Hard work will get you 2% further. Attitude will get you all the way to 100%. Love of God will bring you beyond 100%. there might be some truth to that

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by dbates


No, you misunderstand...

I'm asserting that the universe is all of these dimensions. Saying that god is in the 10th dimension, than saying that he is outside the universe doesn't work... because the 10th dimension is part of the universe.

However, existing in another dimension makes it rather difficult for him to appear to moses... especially in the form of a man...

Originally posted by nj2day
But, everything that we can't see/touch but exists, can be deduced from watching the affects it has on it's surroundings.

Like the Universe and the Big Bang, right?

However, existing in another dimension makes it rather difficult for him to appear to moses... especially in the form of a man...

Enter Jesus, stage left. God's representation of himself in the Universe.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by dbates]

Originally posted by dbates
Like the Universe and the Big Bang, right?

Exactly.

We can prove something akin to the big bang happened... Hubble discovered that all galaxies are moving away from us... doing a little math, they can reverse this expansion and notice that all galaxies converge on a single point. this is the site of a "big bang".

However, Big Bang isn't the only theory... there's Oscillating Universe Theories and such... I have my own ideas on this, but they aren't ready for publication yet until I work out some math stuff to make sure everything is kosher. But that's another thread...

So, given that we can show that everything in our universe is expanding from the same point in space, means scientists can now start to theorize on why this is happening... i.e. big bang, ocsillating universe, etc...

Enter Jesus, stage left. God's representation of himself in the Universe.

so wait... Jesus has always been around too? and he's the one who spoke to moses?

This makes less sense, now you have to explain where jesus resides when he's not appearing to people. (pre-new testament)






[edit on 19-2-2009 by nj2day]

I um, I don't think that scripture is a reliable source. Just because a book says something doesn't mean that it is true. IMHO.

I also don't think that emotions are caused by chemicals, I know so.

reply to post by nj2day

My personal belief is that the plausibility of God is perfectly balanced between provable and not provable (on purpose). It is a personal choice on which path you choose. I don't mind the discussion, but have no hope or aspiration to change anyone's mind on the matter. Don't take it personally if I disagree with you.