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Hybrids for WW3 preconditioning with Orcs, Clonetroopers, Agent Smith?

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:35 AM
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This concept has been touched on many times in our recent "Holy-Wood" admittedly CIA-influenced "modern-mythology" produced imagery of ideas and events that create a common awareness of certain possibilities.

In J.R.R. Tolkein's "The Lord of the Rings" .. we have the Uruk-Hai .. the genetically engineered "bred" combination of all the worst (or best combat-wise) traits of "Goblins" and "Orcs" .(Orcs were made from elves and goblins).. so there was an already ongoing breeding process to create a perfect destructive "race" in his epic trilogy of good vs evil.

In the Matrix Trilogy.. we have "Agent Smith" who replicates himself exponentially.. forming a perfect army to take control over the entire matrix and hopefully take over the architect.

chris carter creator of the x-files television show talks of his admitted conversations with CIA agents as to story plot ideas...
one major aspect of the story arc is the creation of a "super soldier" using human genetics mixe with alien genetics..

in star trek .. we have "the borg" that multiply themselves by assimilating other races. .and creating a constant normal conforming mentality.. lack of individuality...


George Lucas in his Star Wars films presents a similar "massively efficient force" in his "Clones" that are secretly bred then brought into useage, and then through their programming.. turn on their leaders.. thus completing an insideous plan..
these "clones" were based on the genetic template of a bounty hunter.. which was portrayed in the movie by a New Zealand Maori..

Out of all the races on the planet.. Lucas chooses out of all the races that exist on earth...
the Maori.. to represent the galaxy's most battle hardened and physiologically proficient humans as a genetic template for the task of being THE army of complete destruction.

the Maori.. are an incredibly strong breed of human. just watch how they've re-invigorated the NZ rugby franchise the "all blacks" since more maori were injected into the team.
to hacve endured the rough tides of the south pacific.. and defeated the indiginous natives of new zealand.. without guns.. and conquer the land with raw muscle.. even surviving in the cold southern climate of the country..
a true demonstration of survival of the fittest resulting in overall.. tall and muscular race that has a surviving tradition of very aggressive war-like tendencies in their rituals... that comes in handy in sports.


what i'm proposing is this...
with this idea being repeated over and over in the cinema and television...
and the most ideal method of annihilation being the creation of the "perfect soldier" to reduce the populace to a more manageable level.. through the "theater" of a war controlled on both sides...

would not there be a "clone army" created to devastate earth?

it's been pushed into our faces at every turn through the media .. to the point where if there was another movie made about it.. we'd be like .. yeah alright enough already we get it..

yeah it's an idea that sells.. and yeah.. it's the APEX that anyone writing such a story would eventually arrive at..
a "perfect army" .. ala the nazi uber-man.. etc..

so how long on our planet.. until it's a complete reality?
until some military power says.. hey that's a good idea.. and does it..

if they haven't already...

i mean you could say military powers look at story writers for ideas..
or you could say military powers already are doing it and seed authors with ideas to see the public's reaction.. or seed the public's mind with the idea so when it DOES happen.. it's not completely foreign of an idea.. and people can "click" into information-receptivity mode more proficiently when faced with the danger.. instead of having to be explained the idea all over again..

we're already naturally educated on the concept through so many exposures to it.


if the human race is to face a "clone army" under the proposed veil of being from "outer space".. would not the individuals involved in conducting such a plight.. have chosen the most physiologically ideal genetic template from a specific race here on earth? maybe a mix of many.. but one may stand out as the race that holds the most % of it's origonal genes in the resulting clone..


if the "invaders from mars" are really the "thule society" remnants of the nazi party that a moved to Antarctica and created a definitively destructive race to conquer the world with.. and .. by playing both sides.. unite humanty all the while conveniently reducing population rapidly and proficiently.. would not they choose the best warrior race for their breeding program? who might they be?


in a universe that's infinite.. and a world where or publicly available information is obviously minuscule compared to black-ops military treasure trove of ultra tech dating back from tesla's technological supression to the disclosure project falling on deaf ears in washington.. can we be right of mind in ignoring these possibilities i present?



your thoughts?


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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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Two words: Dulce Base.


Part of me does want to say the 'clone army' scenario is just a tried and true story arc used in many sci-fi and fantasy plots. Yet another part of me just can't get around the fact that this truly could be happening.

You make wise connections regarding 'hiding the truth in front of our eyes'... leaking black project information to the public via mass media outlets. It definitely makes it easier to cover up clandestine operations and tying them in with 'nut-case' conspiracy theorists.
"Oh whatever, you just watch to much Stargate SG-1, there's nothing wrong with the Bermuda Trian...." *WHOOSH*

The truth is we cannot know for sure at this time, so it is neither true nor false. It is definitely NOT out of the question though.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Tgautier13
Two words: Dulce Base.


Part of me does want to say the 'clone army' scenario is just a tried and true story arc used in many sci-fi and fantasy plots. Yet another part of me just can't get around the fact that this truly could be happening.

You make wise connections regarding 'hiding the truth in front of our eyes'... leaking black project information to the public via mass media outlets. It definitely makes it easier to cover up clandestine operations and tying them in with 'nut-case' conspiracy theorists.
"Oh whatever, you just watch to much Stargate SG-1, there's nothing wrong with the Bermuda Trian...." *WHOOSH*

The truth is we cannot know for sure at this time, so it is neither true nor false. It is definitely NOT out of the question though.


yeah def dulce..
i've also wondered about that bilboard in the movie "I Am Legend" (based in 2012)... (afer a cancer cure turns people into zombies)...
where there's a bilboard with the batman logo over the superman logo.. advertising a "superman vs batman" movie..

if you're heard of dulce.. nightmare alley.. then you've heard of the rows and rows of "man-bats" that have been reported.
one would think that a soldier with animal tendencies and ...WINGS would be more proficient in battle than that without animalistic tendencies and ... WINGS..

so..

pivot man-bats.. against some type of savior (also engineered) superman race??

who knows...

infinite universe.. infinite imagination.. infinite scientific possibilities to achieve resolution to this mess on earth..

we'll see.

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[edit on 16-2-2009 by prevenge]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Tgautier13
Two words: Dulce Base.


Two words: Science Fiction.

'Nuff Said.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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If you haven't read "Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan I urge you to do so. No other fantasy book describes the making of a super soldier like it does.

The evil in that book made half men-half goat, eyeless warriors that could slip into shadows and re-appear out of another shadow and countless other artificial creatures brought on by mans meddling with genetics and "The One Power".

Sick stuff.


And to the poster above, yes its science fiction. The thing about science fiction is that it always has a way of becoming science fact.

It's important to have individuals who don't accept any "Out There" ideas. They are the concrete of "the box". They allow creative individuals to have the stability of an accepted worldview from which they can use as a jumping point into the unknown, forever acting as catalysts for future scientific change.

Peace

[edit on 16-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

[edit on 16-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by TheRealDonPedros
And to the poster above, yes its science fiction. The thing about science fiction is that it always has a way of becoming science fact.

It's important to have individuals who don't accept any "Out There" ideas. They are the concrete of "the box".


It is not about accepting "out there" ideas, but rather whether those ideas make sense or not. The OPs idea does not. In every single case, neither the Orcs, Clone Troopers or Agent Smith were created for the goals the OP claims we are being prepared for and to accept. And in every single case, whatever the goals the above-mentioned were created for, they ultimately fail. Further, if the powers-that-be are planning this, why would they show their hand by leaking it through various media, risking someone connecting the dots and alerting the world? If these are super-soldiers superior in every way compared to normal humans, why would they even need to condition us to accept them, accept our destruction, when there would be little to nothing we could do about it?

And I'd like to know where Chris Carter said he talked to the CIA to get his ideas.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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there will be a time when people liek green lantern that write on forums mentioning "science fiction" as somehow a detrimental wall of unbreachable conscious bearing..
will be laughed at.. ridiculed for their wasted time spend here..

I don't remember where I heard this..

but there was this hypothetical scenario.. that.. the only race that we as humans would ever accept as truly more advanced than us.. would be a race that had no concept of "science fiction"..

whereas if we jovianly prposed one of our "science-fiction" stories to them and laughed merrily at it's "absurdity" they'd look at us with blank faces and say.. "what.. you think there is such a thing as "impossibility?"....

and laugh right back at us..

science has no limits..

science ficiton is a psycho-social cage-contruct to enforce psychological barriers around completely attainable ideas and ideals.

AND YOU KNOW THIS.

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by TheRealDonPedros
And to the poster above, yes its science fiction. The thing about science fiction is that it always has a way of becoming science fact.

It's important to have individuals who don't accept any "Out There" ideas. They are the concrete of "the box".


It is not about accepting "out there" ideas, but rather whether those ideas make sense or not. The OPs idea does not. In every single case, neither the Orcs, Clone Troopers or Agent Smith were created for the goals the OP claims we are being prepared for and to accept. And in every single case, whatever the goals the above-mentioned were created for, they ultimately fail. Further, if the powers-that-be are planning this, why would they show their hand by leaking it through various media, risking someone connecting the dots and alerting the world? If these are super-soldiers superior in every way compared to normal humans, why would they even need to condition us to accept them, accept our destruction, when there would be little to nothing we could do about it?

And I'd like to know where Chris Carter said he talked to the CIA to get his ideas.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]



no .. you don't get it.

the point is that they GET DEFEATED in the end.. that's the second half of their purpose.. i explicitly outlined this in my initial post.

their purpose.. is to destroy billions of lives.. and then themselves be destroyed.. thus uniting the populace under a conformed and united cause... in whatever newly created statehood that is needed for..

their purpose is not to be indestructable!! if they were.. they could just as easily destroy their creators.

they serve a temporary purpose of adjusting world order.

it doesn't matter if that's the exact purpose in each one of these movies..

what matters is that people become accustomed to the idea of the concept of a massive force of super soldiers... that enforce complete rule.

we see it in the most popular media items..

it's THE "concept"... just as genetic engineering is on the rise and WW3 seems onthe horizon.

mix that with some ufo lore... and you've got yourself a clone-war-cocktail there.

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge
their purpose.. is to destroy billions of lives.. and then themselves be destroyed.. thus uniting the populace under a conformed and united cause... in whatever newly created statehood that is needed for..


In every case, in your examples, that does not happen. When these threats are defeated it is by virtue of the powers that control them being defeated. We never see the power that controls them exterminating the super-soldier after their purpose has been fulfilled.


Originally posted by prevenge
what matters is that people become accustomed to the idea of the concept of a massive force of super soldiers... that enforce complete rule.


That would make sense if these super-soldiers in the examples you use were portrayed as good. However, they are always a threat to the protagonist, a tool of the powers the hero struggles against. How is showing them as evil supposed to condition us to accept them?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by prevenge
their purpose.. is to destroy billions of lives.. and then themselves be destroyed.. thus uniting the populace under a conformed and united cause... in whatever newly created statehood that is needed for..


In every case, in your examples, that does not happen. When these threats are defeated it is by virtue of the powers that control them being defeated. We never see the power that controls them exterminating the super-soldier after their purpose has been fulfilled.



wrong.

in the star wars saga the clone troopers are used to band the outnumbered republic forces against he droid (mechanical) armies..
then they turn on them and become the force of what you term as "evil".. the "bad guys"..

eventually at the end of ths starwars final battle the storm troopers are anhiilated and outlawed..

in the matrix.. agent smith and his army are destroyed..
only after showing us that the protagonist can defeat him through injecting himself INTO them.. destroying them from the inside..

in the lord of the rings the forces of mordor .. the vast majority being the uruk-hai.. and other hybrid orcs (result of goblin and elf genes) .. are destroyed in the final battle...
but serving their purpose in the storyline as only being destroyed after the ring is destroyed..making the "good" population feel outnumbered on the verge of extermination..then afterwards united and refreshed as a unified solidarity of men



Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by prevenge
what matters is that people become accustomed to the idea of the concept of a massive force of super soldiers... that enforce complete rule.


That would make sense if these super-soldiers in the examples you use were portrayed as good. However, they are always a threat to the protagonist, a tool of the powers the hero struggles against. How is showing them as evil supposed to condition us to accept them?


you can use "good" and "bad" all you want...

i'm saying that the "clone force" WOULD be an IDEAL force to oppose the people of earth and force them to unite and renounce their differences.. to fight as one.. under one banner.. to defeat this "tool" this "opposition" from outer space.

there's no real "good" or "bad" here.. there's just "force"... and the most efficient method would be to manufacture a mindless race that has the most physiologically efficient and desireable traits for thatpurpose..

then once the numbers of the population are reduced to a manageable size.. one ideal for creating a utopian society... then the "opposing force" is no longer needed.. and either ramped down through time after serving as some type of policeing force for some type of reconstruction period.. or all together wiped out in a blinding event of victory to unite the world's populace.



one other thing green lantern..
you see.. even by your moniker and avatar.. you seem to have a liking to the character "green lantern" who uses a ring that has special powers that create holographic images that can be used as weapons or tools to solve problems.

if DARPA hasn't thought up an equivalent scenario to green lantern's ring.. or if the DoD has been shown such technology.. and waved it away as something they "didn't see a need for" then i'll eat my holographic green shoe.

i wouldn't be surprised if Marvel or D.C. has DoD funding or at least gets ideas from them...

what.. you're going to be the world's number one super power and toss away the idea of having a miniature nanotech-driven ring that a specially trained agent or soldier wears that uses electromagnetic force to augment the molecular structure of the environment around him into what shape his will prefers?

no that would be somehow... INADVENTAGEOUS to strategic accomplishments.

let's leave that to some OTHER super power to develop..and conquer us with..

riiiight.

anyone.. anywhere.. who NEGATES imaginative power combined with unbridled funding and scientific know-how and application...
does NOT win the war.. and does NOT accomplish the great work of order and eventual salvation towards the completion of any Great Work.

and that goes for the origonal post's topic.

a cloned army .. hybrid or not.. of extremely desireable combat-proficient pysciological and mental traits.. with the LEAST amount of derivation from the target specifications... would.. inthe end ..typically .. the most desireable situation.. for the most functional army.. would be ONE mentality..ONE physiological template..
THAT brings more efficiency to the military machine that supports them.
THAT brings LESS time and energy wasted on individual wants and needs or drawbacks..
ONE TYPE.. = less paperwork..
ONE TYPE = less sizes for armament.. for clothing.. for shoe size..
ONE TYPE = less issues with medical situations.. (does he need insulin shots is he alergic to penicilin)...
all of these wassteful issues.. OUT THE WINDOW.. if it's in essence the SAME PERSON.

THIS is what the military WILL eventually evolve to ..
ON AN ECONOMIC BASIS ALONE!

so.. it WILL happen.


it's the major feature of the most popular books and movies of all time.

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[edit on 16-2-2009 by prevenge]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge
in the star wars saga the clone troopers are used to band the outnumbered republic forces against he droid (mechanical) armies..
then they turn on them and become the force of what you term as "evil".. the "bad guys"..eventually at the end of ths starwars final battle the storm troopers are anhiilated and outlawed..


The Clone Army does not "turn" on the Republic; they do kill their Jedi commanders, but the Army does not turn against the Republic. They are a tool for the Emperor to cement control over the Republic.

Nor do we see them "annihilated and outlawed" at the end of the series. We see one unit of them defeated, but there is nothing about their annihilation or them being outlawed.


Originally posted by prevenge
in the matrix.. agent smith and his army are destroyed..
only after showing us that the protagonist can defeat him through injecting himself INTO them.. destroying them from the inside..


Come to think of it, Agent Smith does not even fit your scenario; by the time he learns to replicate himself, he is no longer working for the Matrix, he has his own agenda.



Originally posted by prevenge
i'm saying that the "clone force" WOULD be an IDEAL force to oppose the people of earth and force them to unite and renounce their differences.. to fight as one.. under one banner.. to defeat this "tool" this "opposition" from outer space.


You're changing the goal of this supposed plot...I thought the purpose of the clones was to...


Originally posted by prevenge
...to reduce the populace to a more manageable level.. through the "theater" of a war controlled on both sides...


There are a lot better ways and more readily available ways right now, to "reduce the population to a more manageable level" than trying to create clone soldiers...and science that is far from being perfected as it is.


then once the numbers of the population are reduced to a manageable size.. one ideal for creating a utopian society... then the "opposing force" is no longer needed.. and either ramped down through time after serving as some type of policeing force for some type of reconstruction period.. or all together wiped out in a blinding event of victory to unite the world's populace.





Originally posted by prevenge
if DARPA hasn't thought up an equivalent scenario to green lantern's ring.. or if the DoD has been shown such technology.. and waved it away as something they "didn't see a need for" then i'll eat my holographic green shoe...


Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. Who knows?

It really has nothing to do with the topic.



Originally posted by prevenge
it's the major feature of the most popular books and movies of all time.


Is it now?

Let's see here...

here is a list of the highest grossing films of all time. Amazing how many of them have nothing to do whatsoever with your theory.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by prevenge
 


Prevenge, after reading your posts you've gotta be familiar with Jake Kotze and Steve Willner????

The stars above resonate with the moviestars below - Our art is a reflection of what was, what is and what will be.

Peace



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by prevenge
 

You know, you could have shortened the argument considerably by scrapping orcs, clonetroopers and agent smith. There is one group that does exactly what is specified.

Space Marines.

Warhammer 40K universe, a group of genetically engineered super soldiers.

Will this be reality one day? Yes, I actually think it will. And if they're half as cool and fanatic as the Space Marines, they're gonna pwn all opposition


[edit on 16-2-2009 by merka]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Tgautier13
Two words: Dulce Base.


Two words: Science Fiction.

'Nuff Said.


Heh... more than likely. At the same time though, no one can know for sure, unless you've physically been to the location underground and have either seen a massive base full of humans and aliens or just a bunch of dirt and rocks. To deal in absolutes, to say it is either there or not there, is to deal in ignorance.

Also... you guys understand you're arguing over the details of what fictional cloned armies' purposes were in their respective films? Am I the only one who sees this?



Originally Posted by merka

You know, you could have shortened the argument considerably by scrapping orcs, clonetroopers and agent smith. There is one group that does exactly what is specified.

Space Marines.

Warhammer 40K universe, a group of genetically engineered super soldiers.

Will this be reality one day? Yes, I actually think it will. And if they're half as cool and fanatic as the Space Marines, they're gonna pwn all opposition


Now here's an idea I can get behind. I would have to agree with merka, this scenario would probably have the best chances of coming to fruition as well.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Tgautier13
Also... you guys understand you're arguing over the details of what fictional cloned armies' purposes were in their respective films? Am I the only one who sees this?


Oh, I know. But it is to illustrate how these don't fit his theory.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Why go into the expense, time, and unknowns of human cloning, when you could simply institute breeding an army and then arming them with superior weapons and equipment?

What real difference does genetics make on a modern battlefield? The force with superior weapons, financing, training, communications, and command structure will win the day...not the one with the best DNA.

The idea of a supersoldier is intriguing, but from a financial and feasibility perspective, there are cheaper and better solutions...



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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If we're taking examples from movies, then do not forget the machine armies from Terminator. Also, the war in the Matrix started because the machines were supposed to 'save' the human race. And I'll throw I Robot out there just for kicks too!

I would say A.I. armies are much closer than genetically modified or cloned ones.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
--Einstein

Good post!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Why go into the expense, time, and unknowns of human cloning, when you could simply institute breeding an army and then arming them with superior weapons and equipment?


If your purpose is to depopulate the planet, why do you even need an army with science-fiction technology? We have the means to do it now.



[edit on 16-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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That would seem a strange goal (depopulating the planet)...unless you're talking about Alternative 3 Bill Moore kind of stuff...


If that were the true goal of the powers that be, then I'd say we don't have to worry about it, as so far, they're really screwing the pooch, given the drastic upward increase in population that continues to only grow....



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