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Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

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posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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I would bet my life that there is a conspiracy here, not just in this game but in video games & movies in general.

What better way to transform some human races in to evil raping murderous animals than to spoon feed all the evil that is needed through these games and indeed movies.

ANYBODY that says virtual RAPING and sexually assaulting people is fine because its only a computer game should be banned from this site. Because that only proves to me that they find that sort of thing acceptable in our society.

On a side note have you seen the increase in stabbings in the UK since GTA was released on the PS3!

what are we teaching our kids?

Disgusted




posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by franspeakfree
What better way to transform some human races in to evil raping murderous animals than to spoon feed all the evil that is needed through these games and indeed movies.


There is no proof that these games encourage psychologically normal adults to commit crimes or change their views on crimes that are committed by others. If you have some research, peer reviewed research that counters this please post it. Otherwise try not to speculate.


Originally posted by franspeakfree
ANYBODY that says virtual RAPING and sexually assaulting people is fine because its only a computer game should be banned from this site. Because that only proves to me that they find that sort of thing acceptable in our society.


Again speculation without anything to back it up. Also you have an interesting take on freedom of speech, obviously if someone doesn't agree with you then they should be banned. Yeah that is free and fair
To say anyone who is defending the game accepts real life rape is patently ridiculous and according to the replies in this thread very wrong.

I have not yet seen one of the people who is defending the free speech of the developers and players of this game who is also defending real life rape. I suppose though you made this accusation to deflect any points made by people arguing against yours. It seems attacking peoples character is a common tactic when people don't like a viewpoint.


Originally posted by franspeakfree
On a side note have you seen the increase in stabbings in the UK since GTA was released on the PS3!

what are we teaching our kids?

Disgusted


Again, kids should not be playing those games for that very reason and to keep bringing that point up is being dishonest. If you can show an increase in violent crime involving adults since GTA release then maybe your point would have some merit. Kids are more easily influenced, however to base this solely upon the game doesn't exactly work. We have scientists, psychologists and social workers all trying to find out why kids are becoming more accepting of stuff like knife crime and none of them have come up with a definitive answer.

On top of all that we have a generation, only a few years below my own that seems to have been raised slightly differently.

Some argue it is the fact that more parents are currently having to work full time and so don't see their kids as much. Also some have stated that parents are treating their kids more like friends than kids and that is causing the issue. Basically we have lots of things coming together at once and we have no idea which is causing it.

However it should be asked, why are the parents of these kids allowing them to play these games? Doesn't that show a rather large lack of caring on their part? Are they also forgetting to teach them the basic ideas of not harming others?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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While this kind of game absolutely would make me sick to my stomach I have to admit I don't see it being all that wrong. I think whoever would play it isn't someone I'd like to choose as company, but this game isn't any worse than the violent games we already have.

If we can't blame video games for violence and shootings, then we can't blame video games for rape. Using statistics to prove or disprove a connection between rapes and video games is irrelevant, there are too many other factors. Also, a person who would be inclined to rape would likely put a game like this on their must have list. The other people who buy it out of "casual curiosity" I don't think would end up doing anything wrong out in the real world, but I'd still think they're sick, personally, for lacking moral judgement. But that's as far as that goes in my opinion.

If you're against it, then don't buy it. Don't give them a market to cater to.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
There is no proof that these games encourage psychologically normal adults to commit crimes or change their views on crimes that are committed by others. If you have some research, peer reviewed research that counters this please post it. Otherwise try not to speculate.


You show me any research, peer reviewed research, on rape video games and their affect on humans. You are speculating as well.

From the APA,

www.apa.org...


Myth 1. Violent video game research has yielded very mixed results.
Facts: Some studies have yielded nonsignificant video game effects, just as some smoking studies failed to find a significant link to lung cancer. But when one combines all relevant empirical studies using meta-analytic techniques, five separate effects emerge with considerable consistency. Violent video games are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping) behavior. Average effect sizes for experimental studies (which help establish causality) and correlational studies (which allow examination of serious violent behavior) appear comparable (Anderson & Bushman, 2001).



And for those who keep arguing that harm must be physical or it really isnt harm , you know, the whole "sticks and stones" argument, you are just incorrect.

The brain processes emotional pain the same way it processes physical pain.

news.bbc.co.uk...


New brain scanning technologies are revealing that the part of the brain that processes physical pain also deals with emotional pain.

And in the same way that in some people injury can cause long-lasting chronic pain, science now reveals why some will never get over such heartbreak.



www.newsroom.ucla.edu...


Two key areas of the brain appear to respond to the pain of rejection in the same way as physical pain, a UCLA-led team of psychologists reports in the Oct. 10 issue of Science.

"While everyone accepts that physical pain is real, people are tempted to think that social pain is just in their heads," said Matthew D. Lieberman, one of the paper's three authors and an assistant professor of psychology at UCLA. "But physical and social pain may be more similar than we realized."

"In the English language we use physical metaphors to describe social pain like 'a broken heart' and 'hurt feelings,'" said Naomi I. Eisenberger, a UCLA Ph.D. candidate in social psychology and the study's lead author. "Now we see that there is good reason for this."


And as for Japan's low rape rate being attributed in any way to the availability of rape games, or anime, one would have to show a decrease in rapes after the games and anime became available that one could not attribute to any other cause. I dont see that being done here.

Several countries HAVE banned anime that features the sexualization of children, (which Rapelay would qualify for since one of the daughters who are raped in this game is 9 or 10)

en.wikipedia.org...


Although several countries have attempted to criminalize lolicon's sexually explicit forms as a type of child pornography, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, and Ireland are among the few to have actually done so.


Australia has very high rates of rape, and Ireland one of the lowest in the EU.

www.nationmaster.com...

It would seem that there are other variables at play than simply the legal access to or lack thereof of video games and anime depicting certain types of sexual behavior and rape rates in a country.

I notice an awful lot of experts on Japanese culture in this thread. Many of whom seem to think having a "Hello Kitty" lunchbox and reading manga give one real insight into Japanese culture as a whole. It doesnt.

en.wikipedia.org...


According to Ruth Benedict's shame culture/guilt culture analysis, an important factor keeping crime low is the traditional emphasis on the individual as a member of groups to which he or she must not bring shame. Within these groups—family, friends, and associates at work or school—a Japanese citizen has social rights and obligations, may derive emotional support, and meets powerful expectations to conform. These informal social sanctions display potency despite competing values in a changing society.


Individuality and individual freedom is NOT emphasized in Japan any where near the degree it is here. Bringing respect to your family (or company, or other social group) and not embarrassing them is huge. Respecting others is huge. Not imposing on others is an important value there. Perhaps the reason these games are tolerated is because discipline and self control and respect for others are firmly embedded within the culture and they cause no (or little) harm there. That does not mean that one can then assume the same effect everywhere else in the world in cultures where discipline is emphasized and internalized much less.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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The first thing I thought of when I heard about this in the news was that likely it'd appear on ATS. I was not disappointed, sure enough it was here. What did surprise me was the impassioned responses advocating the game. I'd expected, "This game is sick and never should've been made" but the greatest opposition I'd anticipated was, "I don't like it either, but it's protected under their constitution". To see the roar of support for virtual rape was stunning to say the least and did somehow manage to drag down my already low expectation of humanity. To ATS, I'm grateful for this perspective, my ignorance was in having an ounce of faith in humankind which proved to be too much. Splice and weigh it again, maybe there will be change someday but until then at least there is hope.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Saint, I have read a great deal of this thread, and have yet to see anyone actually supporting the game other than saying it is a free speech issue. Where are people supporting it rampantly as you claim?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Finn1916
Saint, I have read a great deal of this thread, and have yet to see anyone actually supporting the game other than saying it is a free speech issue. Where are people supporting it rampantly as you claim?


From which page would you like me to quote?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Finn1916
Saint, I have read a great deal of this thread, and have yet to see anyone actually supporting the game other than saying it is a free speech issue. Where are people supporting it rampantly as you claim?


From which page would you like me to quote?

I would like to see all you can find, as I haven't been able to rummage through the entire thread. There was a short period of massive response a few times where I was out.

Where are the rape advocates as you call them?

[edit on 2/17/2009 by eNumbra]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by eNumbra
I would, as I haven't been able to rummage through the entire thread. There was a short period of massive response a few times where I was out.

Where are the rape advocates as you call them?


Shall we take it one post at a time? Please note I said, "To see the roar of support for virtual rape ..."


Originally posted by nerbot
I personally like these kind of games for the amazing and creative work of the artists....cheers.


The thread is chock full and could take many days of discussing content.


[edit on 17-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Notice how he said artists.

Anime is art, and whether you like the subject or not good art should be appreciated. Art may be smut to some but incredible artistry skills should be appreciated, whether or not you believe the artist should be finding more productive things to draw.

edit: Don't cop out now.

[edit on 2/17/2009 by eNumbra]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by eNumbra
Notice how he said artists.

Anime is art, and whether you like the subject or not good art should be appreciated. Art may be smut to some but incredible artistry skills should be appreciated, whether or not you believe the artist should be finding more productive things to draw.

edit: Don't cop out now.


Rape is art? Then why play a 'game'? You're not downloading a poster. Even downloading a poster is support. This is spin but am not going to ask anyone to try to untangle how, it takes a discerning eye to see below the surface.

Next up:


Originally posted by Memysabu
This game is a pornography, theres nothing wrong with it and its not story worthy. You arent raping children in the game.


Here it apparently is okay to rape in a game, just not children.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
There is no proof that these games encourage psychologically normal adults to commit crimes or change their views on crimes that are committed by others. If you have some research, peer reviewed research that counters this please post it. Otherwise try not to speculate.


You show me any research, peer reviewed research, on rape video games and their affect on humans. You are speculating as well.

From the APA,

www.apa.org...


Myth 1. Violent video game research has yielded very mixed results.
Facts: Some studies have yielded nonsignificant video game effects, just as some smoking studies failed to find a significant link to lung cancer. But when one combines all relevant empirical studies using meta-analytic techniques, five separate effects emerge with considerable consistency. Violent video games are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping) behavior. Average effect sizes for experimental studies (which help establish causality) and correlational studies (which allow examination of serious violent behavior) appear comparable (Anderson & Bushman, 2001).




I have a problem with this study. I cannot find the studies it combines together as this is a snippet from something and i cannot find out if it was conducted on adult or child subjects. I can't really judge it until i know that. If these studies involve children then my point stands that there is no evidence on video games causing permanent or long term changes in adult behavior.

What is undeniable is the short term changes. Action games tend to increase levels of hormones like adrenaline until the body breaks it down. I won't be denying that. Heavy music also does the same thing.

Looking down the page i found some interesting things though .


Myth 6. There are no studies linking violent video game play to serious aggression.
Facts: High levels of violent video game exposure have been linked to delinquency, fighting at school and during free play periods, and violent criminal behavior (e.g., self-reported assault, robbery).


That appears to be talking about children who should not be playing these games. Let me make my position clear. I honestly believe these games could effect kids or people with mental instabilities. Finding good studies on healthy adult subjects is kind of tricky and i admit i would love to see a very large study. I think it is about time the government funded such a study. The candidates would need to be screened for mental health problems, have their aggression response tested before the game, after the game and then a few months later. I hope that study is done or has been done.

[rex]Myth 8. Unrealistic video game violence is completely safe for adolescents and older youths.
Facts: Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games.

Again talking about kids. Not sure if the college students are american or UK based as their ages are different. It is pretty well established that the brain continues to form into the 20's so maybe a ban on violent media until after than is a good idea?

What i find very interesting is this man, Anderson seems to have written for journals on adolescent responses to video games and other violent media an awful lot. Adolescents shouldn't be playing these games and that goes back to my original argument.

So no i wasn't spouting.

Thousands of people are downloading this game if you go and check the torrent sites. Not a very nice thought i would agree as i really fail to see the attraction of this game. However to assume all of those people are rapists or will become rapists is a little bit of a stretch. I bring us back to the point that millions, literally millions of people play violent video games and we do not have millions of murderers on our hands.

If we look at cases where violent offenders blame it on a game, we tend to find past behavioral problems. I'm not aware of a large scale study on that and if there is one i'd be very happy to read it. However reading news stories this does tend to be the case. Aggressive person gets obsessed with an aggressive game and then people blame the game.

I'm afraid i have to go back to my original argument, violent people will do violent things and non-violent people won't do violent things. If someone is able to demonstrate that adults can be coerced into violence by a video game then i would happily see this game banned tomorrow.

I think i should level the field with some other studies, including a very large sampling of studies that lead to the conclusion that video games had no effects.


Other studies, however, reach the conclusion that violence in video games is not causally linked with aggressive tendencies. This was the conclusion of a 1999 study by the U.S. government, prompting Surgeon General David Satcher to say, "We clearly associate media violence to aggressive behavior. But the impact was very small compared to other things. Some may not be happy with that, but that’s where the science is."[15] A meta-analysis by psychologist Jonathan Freedman, who reviewed over 200 published studies and found that the "vast and overwhelming majority" did not find a causal link, also reached this conclusion.[16]. A US Secret Service study found that only 12 percent of those involved in school shootings were attracted to violent video games, while 24 percent read violent books and 27 percent were attracted to violent films.[17] An Australian study found that only children already predisposed to violence were affected by violent games.


A "Vast and overwhelming majority". Well that is the thing. There is always doubt in science, there are still people producing papers on cold fusion but the general consensus is against it. It comes down to whether you believe the majority or minority.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
The first thing I thought of when I heard about this in the news was that likely it'd appear on ATS. I was not disappointed, sure enough it was here. What did surprise me was the impassioned responses advocating the game. I'd expected, "This game is sick and never should've been made" but the greatest opposition I'd anticipated was, "I don't like it either, but it's protected under their constitution". To see the roar of support for virtual rape was stunning to say the least and did somehow manage to drag down my already low expectation of humanity. To ATS, I'm grateful for this perspective, my ignorance was in having an ounce of faith in humankind which proved to be too much. Splice and weigh it again, maybe there will be change someday but until then at least there is hope.


Erm sorry i haven't seen much support of virtual rape apart from one post. What i have seen is people saying it should be banned and others saying it is free speech and protected as you said.


Originally posted by saint4God


Here it apparently is okay to rape in a game, just not children.



I just thought i'd add that according to what someone else posted here there are children in the game. I checked on that and it is true that there are children in it. Truly this is just beyond words to describe how horrible it is. I just don't get who would play that and i really wouldn't associate with them. I don't care if they're the nicest person outside that game i wouldn't want to know them.

It is however freedom of thought and protected.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Rape is art? Then why play a 'game'? You're not downloading a poster. Even downloading a poster is support. This is spin but am not going to ask anyone to try to untangle how, it takes a discerning eye to see below the surface.

Refer to my last post where I said Art should be appreciatied regardless of what it depicts. I and I believe the poster in question was talking about the DRAWING TALENT of the artist.




Here it apparently is okay to rape in a game, just not children.


I don't see why not it is a game afterall. Pixels don't feel pain, or fear, or any emotions at all.

Besides, what do we do with all the PEOPLE and of course I say people because it isn't just men, who have some minor fantasies about rape. These are not rapists, these are people who exercise their fantasies as consenting adults who have FANTASIES, do you tell them its wrong? Do you exorcise their demons?

I suggest you look up the words Fantasy and Reality if you are having trouble differentiating between the two.

[edit on 2/17/2009 by eNumbra]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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When I was in Japan... we went into a book store and quickly realised it only sold hentai...

I can honestly say I have never seen "tentacles" and "rape" used in the same context until then...


Seriously they have weird stuff there all around, I could write a book, there was a game where you shove a giant rubber fist into a plastic ass. And at the baseball game in Osakadome, everyone in the crowd had giant pink penis shaped balloons... and at one moment EVERYONE releases them at once! WHAT A SIGHT!!!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 




Thousands of people are downloading this game if you go and check the torrent sites.


so?


However to assume all of those people are rapists or will become rapists is a little bit of a stretch. I bring us back to the point that millions, literally millions of people play violent video games and we do not have millions of murderers on our hands.


so?

I asked a while back if there was no line you wouldn't be willing to cross in the name of free speech?

I see people take these laws of ours, these rights - and put them on the same sort of pedestal - turn them into the same sort of tool as religion

they weren't intended to be worshiped

they weren't engraved on stone tablets

they were intended for people who not only are free to think - but who will think

is there no line you won't cross? You would defend anything that falls into the category of free speech - because the god of free speech has spoken?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by eNumbra
 




Pixels don't feel pain, or fear, or any emotions at all.


unfortunately you're not required to try harder than this

but seriously - if you're going to make an argument for free speech and in defense of these games - don't you think you should try a little harder?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I asked a while back if there was no line you wouldn't be willing to cross in the name of free speech?

I see people take these laws of ours, these rights - and put them on the same sort of pedestal - turn them into the same sort of tool as religion

they weren't intended to be worshiped

they weren't engraved on stone tablets


Nope they were written on paper, the medium into which they are written isn't important but obviously you mean they weren't written to be followed blindly right? Well i'm not following blindly. I am protecting anything as long as it doesn't hurt someone or directly harm another. I have defined harm, psychological damage is also included however that is a tricky one.

You see some people here have claimed the existence of this game would cause harm to some people. However vegans could argue that the existence of meat eaters harms them psychologically as they cry at night worrying about the poor cows.

Point being once you open the floodgate the flood does come.


Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
they were intended for people who not only are free to think - but who will think


Yes i agree and i have presented my arguments, that does require thought despite what some here may feel.


Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
is there no line you won't cross? You would defend anything that falls into the category of free speech - because the god of free speech has spoken?


The line i won't cross is where free speech causes direct harm to someone or incites direct harm to be done to someone or a group of people. I am not following blindly, maybe i'm just following with a better appreiciation of the past and how free speech has been slwoly eaten away. Maybe i am fearful that letting censorship occur every time someone is offended would erode free speech that i value so much.

The people wanting this banned are interesting because i am willing to bet than many of them love free speech. They would fight for their right to express their views, yet as soon as something comes along that upsets them then their ideology goes out the window. They pay nothing more than lip service to the idea.

The whole point of free speech is that you may hear or see things you do not want to. The only choice is to ignore what you don't like. If you don't like it don't play it, can't it be that simple for people?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
unfortunately you're not required to try harder than this

but seriously - if you're going to make an argument for free speech and in defense of these games - don't you think you should try a little harder?


I know this wasn't a response to me but i found it interesting and wanted to say something. I believe that only one person in this thread has defended the actual game. Protecting the game is different to defending it as defending it would require a moral position that the games content was ok. At least that's how i see it


I will never defend it, it's sick, i will however protect it under free speech/thought/expression.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 




I am protecting anything as long as it doesn't hurt someone or directly harm another. I have defined harm, psychological damage is also included however that is a tricky one.


I'm asking you - once more

define harm



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