Couple wrongly accused of abusing their baby cannot have their children back because it is too late

reply to post by imd12c4funn


I never said my thoughts were more valid than anyone elses. I am just tired of having what I am actually saying twisted around.

Bottom line is that none of us are involved in this situation. None of us know what the whole story is.

But, I think all of us can agree that further trauma should not come to these children and no matter the outcome of this situation, the children should be thought of first and foremost.....what is best, safest, and most stablizing for them.

Originally posted by nerbot


Also, bear in mind that the adoptive parents probably haven't told any of the kids they're adopted. For them to call eachother "mommy & daddy" and "son & daughter" is a LIE right now isn't it? How far down the line will they find out and what damage will it cause then? Teenage kids can suffer big-time with those kind of revelations. Feelings of deciept, insecurity, and just good old fashioned "why?" .. Sometimes irrepairable.

I understand your conservative approach and that you are thinking of the kids (I hope) but BLOOD is thicker than water.

[edit on 11/2/2009 by nerbot]

Wait, first the kids remember their parents so they aren't settled and now they may not have been told they are adopted and don't know that the family they are with now aren't their real parents??

(not saying you are the one that said that earlier, but someone did)

Like I said, none of us know the whole story. And, while, yes, blood is thicker than water.....what the children need and what is best for them in the transition (if there is one, which I hope there can be) needs to come first.

"Blood is thicker than water." There's another one. Yes, that's true, but what exactly does it mean? Do the adoptive parents have water running through their veins instead of blood? Don't think so. Do adoptive parents love their children any less because they aren't "their blood?" You can ask 'em, but be prepared for a fight if you do.

Did you guys not have to learn the tales of King Solomon in school? Remember the two women who were brought before him because they were fighting over a child, and no one could figure out which was really the child's mother? Finally King Solomon said "fine, cut the child in half and give half to each woman." When he said that, one of the women promptly protested and renounced her claim. "Don't hurt the child, let him go with her," she said. Whereupon King Solomon knew that she was the real mother because she would rather let the child go with the other woman than be harmed.

Did you see Star Wars? What did you think when Anakin's mother let her little boy go with STRANGERS because she believed he'd have a better future with them? Did you think she didn't love him? I think the opposite.

My grandparents could have fought for custody of me and won. My mother had divorced my father and married an American soldier (we were in Germany), and now she was planning to take me to America, probably permanently. The courts would have sided with my grandparents, but they let me go. Why? They believed I would have a better future in America, so no matter how it hurt them they let my mother take me because they thought it was the best thing for me. They loved me to death. My grandmother died in the hospital 16 years later begging to see ME. But they let me go.

Now, those are examples of REAL love of children. This "it's MY child and if you want it you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands" stuff is not what I would call real love, it seems more like the feeling one has for a prized possession.

reply to post by skeptic1


i don't mean to be condescending.

It is a very disturbing case and I happen to think an innocent finding should not come with restrictions on being made whole.

I do understand some may have views on what is trauma, but those views should not interfere with rights and family as was otherwise determined by the presiding judge and others.

reply to post by BorgHoffen


Thank you for more information about the parents. If you cared for your children why would you run and not return.

I looked up symptoms of scury also. I would think the parents would of been taking the child back to the doctor and if he/she couldn't figure out the cause I would of found another doctor who could.

Here's the symptoms
dry skin, dry mouth, dry eyes, Eye redness BLOOD covers white part of eye, rash, bruises, bleeding gums, swollen gums, leg pain, cavities, mouth pain and fatique,

Severe symptoms: leg swelling, arm swelling, Jaundice yellow skin yellow eyes, blood in stools, rectal bleeding.

Most of us would of taken our children to the doctor for these symptoms. We wouldn't of been happy if we had to keep going back with no results we would of looked else where for help.

If you love something you fight for it even if you feel the odds are against you. You do not run. What if down the road these children need someone to fight for them again..would these same parents run or not be the childrens champions?

If children can't have faith and trust in their parents just who the heck can they have faith in? Maybe someone else that took them in and loved them thats who.

Also these parents abandoned these kids. That had to hard on the older kids also. I'm sure taking them from their home was bad enough on the kids but then for your parents just to up and disappear. Unthinkable thing to do to a child.

IMHO they don't deserve their kids back the children might have better role models now that can show them what love is instead of selfpreservation.

reply to post by imd12c4funn


It is disturbing that an actual medical condition was unjustly called "abuse". It is disturbing that these children were taken away from their parents because of a mistake. It is disturbing that all of these lives were thrown into upheaval because of that mistake.

But, now is the time to make sure that no more mistakes are made and that the children get what is best for them....no matter what that is.

I do feel that the natural parents should be in their childrens life, though. We just disagree on how best that can be achieved.

These parents should get their kids back, period; it's deffinantly not too late. The "doctor" should have his finger nails pulled out, and the "judge" should be paralyzed from the waste down, so he can feel right at home in his throne, making decisions that no man/woman should be given the right to make.
When discussing topics like this, I can't help but wonder if I'd be fast enough to get to the judge and rip his throat out, before the bailiff got a round in my back.

That's ridiculous - nothing is ever "too late." I can appreicate the gradual adaptation approach though. Example - have the children spend one day a week with their biological mom and dad (not overnight), then gradually increase it to an overnight stay, then weekends, then 5 days a week, then eventually all the time.

Originally posted by Heike

Originally posted by Logarock
In this case the decision tears at the foundation of civilization.

How could I be so silly? You're right, of course.

Human civilization and society are built on a foundation of children being another pair of hands to work, and/or the property of their parents who could do anything they wanted with or to them, up to and including killing them.

Yeah, let's go back to that. Much better. Let's repeal the child labor laws while we're at it; that should help the economy.

When I was a kid my mother tried to kill me. I went to the police with evidence on my body. They gave me milk and cookies and called my parents to come get me. I'm sure you think they did the right thing. After all, she was my mother.

Your experience has molded your opinion on the subject. The other 99.99% of the population has not been through that horrid occurence.

But I have been through a broken family situation twice, as a child and again as an adult. In MY experience the sooner the family can be reunited the better. I was separated from my mother and all but one of my brothers for 3 years, and all I could think of was getting back to them.

That is my personal experience. Your mileage may vary. Obviously, neither of our opinions will change. I don't feel like trying to sway others or justifying feelings on this subject by continually regurgitating the same points will make a difference to the majority, due to each unique circumstance. The development of this thread will bear out the majority sentiment soon enough, If that even matters.

reply to post by nerbot


I cannot believe anyone thinks these children should be with the usurpers! What kind of monster would pretend the blood ties of family could be trifled with so cavalierly?

THESE CHILDREN MUST BE FREED FROM THEIR INVOLUNTARY CAPTIVITY IMMEDIATELY!

The judge should be hanged -- or enslaved to the aggrieved family -- for kidnapping and operating under colour of law.

Get a spine, you people! Children belong with their mum and dad - not strangers! What kind of people are you?!!

reply to post by Jim Scott


Jim there is no way to "fix" this putrid system. History will reassert itself, and soon. The end is near for the so-called United States of America. We are under judgment - the kind some CPS "referee" or DA could not recognize if their souls depended on it.

Persevere.

Originally posted by Heike

There's nothing magical about one's biological parents. "Natural" parents kill and abuse their kids all the time. "Real" parents are the ones who love their kids and take care of them, not the ones who contributed the sperm and the egg.

This isn't science class, this is human life. Besides the chemistry there are immeasurable bonds of the souls. Dont get talked into believing we are just meat computers. We are all of the one.

These kids will always have a giant hole in there hearts where there parents once were.

The family Court system stinks and not just in USA but all round the world. It is an infectious disease spawned by self appointed do-gooders. We the people have to rid ourselves of this sickness.

My son was beaten up as a baby by his mother. Left unconscious for half an hour with a black eye and no ambulance was called. New Zealand Police and social workers would not believe me and when almost a year later I forced an investigation by police and social workers they predictably wrote reports for the family court exonerating themselves, dismissing my concerns and attacking me as a vexatious troublemaker.

Six years passed and I finally got my son's file. It proved that the child's mother admitted the assault and another serious one a year later, prior to police laying false evidence with the court which falsely stated that there was no evidence. they of course knew there was evidence in the form of admissions.

When I discovered evidence of perjury by Police and social workers I took a complaint to police about perjury by Police and social workers. Police refused to lay any charges. (we don't have a separate District Attourney or Crown Prosecuter - NZ Police investigate and decide whether to prosecute under one roof)

I tried to file my evidence before Judge Geoff Ellis and he struck out all my evidence and refused to grant a hearing.

Higher Courts have refused to review the family court's conduct. My son now lives 500 kilometres away and I am vilified as a troublemaker.

I hope these wrongly accused parents use the court of public opinion and the international court of human rights to attack this dumb ruling.

Those who removed the children are the real child abusers.

reply to post by Heike

"Blood is thicker than water." There's another one. Yes, that's true, but what exactly does it mean? Do the adoptive parents have water running through their veins instead of blood? Don't think so. Do adoptive parents love their children any less because they aren't "their blood?" You can ask 'em, but be prepared for a fight if you do.

But do adoptive parents have the right to steal someone else's children and isolate that child from knowing it's kin ?

You are the epitomy of a selfish do-gooder in my eyes.

Yes there is a magic in the relationship of a child and it's natural parents. A magic which you clearly don't understand or don't respect because you're consumed by a selfish viewpoint.

This is because they bought into the lie of the authority of the State. They believe in Government ie being Governed. That they (the parents and the children) are wards of the court which started when they hired a lawyer to represent them! In Canada, this was the reason why Robert of the Menard family studied and learned the truth about the legal system in Canada. The "government" took his child away from him. The USA, England, Australia have similar but not identical legal systems.

www.thinkfree.ca...

Personally, i think heads should roll all over the damn place, pensions lost, licenses revoked permanently, from the doctor to the judges and everyone in-between who allowed this to happen. What an abomination.

reply to post by ReelView


You are so right. But you know who's fault this sort of thing is. It's really all of our fault for letting it get this far, to one degree or another. In a way, we all ripped those kids from that family. Because ultimately, we keep feeding these "systems"

[edit on 11-2-2009 by elcapitano75]

Originally posted by sy.gunson
But do adoptive parents have the right to steal someone else's children and isolate that child from knowing it's kin ?

The adoptive parents didn't "steal" the child. It was given to them, and they likely weren't even told the whole truth about the circumstances.

What's so great about kin anyway? I sought out my biological father when I was 18 in pursuit of this myth. Want to know what he did? He tried to seduce me, that's what. There's some magic for you.

You are the epitomy of a selfish do-gooder in my eyes.

Me selfish? How so? I have no dog in this race. I would like to see this resolved in the way that's best for those kids. Nothing else. How is that selfish?

Yes there is a magic in the relationship of a child and it's natural parents. A magic which you clearly don't understand or don't respect because you're consumed by a selfish viewpoint.

Magic? You haven't been reading this thread, have you? Or the news?

Magic like what Caylee Anthony got from HER mother? Magic like what I got from mine? Tell it to all the children who have been abused or killed by the "magical" relationship with their natural parents.

If anyone is selfish here, it's the parents who want the kids regardless because it's what THEY want, not the people who are concerned about what's best for the kids.

Biological parents Vs. State parents.
Is it an surprise who won?

And yet we have the Octo-mom pumping out puppies by the score, and the State virtually embraces her and her soon to be soldiers.

No, your children are not yours.
Don't be ridiculous.

peace

What's so great about kin anyway? I sought out my biological father when I was 18 in pursuit of this myth. Want to know what he did? He tried to seduce me, that's what. There's some magic for you.

Maybe you need to open your eyes.

They steal kids from parents who do care.

As for the deadbeats they roll over backwards to give them welfare support .

Just because you had dead beat parents does not mean you can project your messianic do gooder philosophy on others.