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Couple wrongly accused of abusing their baby cannot have their children back because it is too late

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posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by darkelf
This just goes to show that YOU do not have any legal right to your own children. They are OWNED by the state and the state can and will do with them as they please.


Exactly! And the bad thing is, often they do not double-check to see if the accusations are true or not. I was a single father for some years. And you should have heared some of the the comments I've had. Most people asked me if her mother was dead, because they were not used to a father having a child appointed to him. It is usually the mother who gets the child, regardless of her behaviour.

To make things worse, I was asked to come to a local child protection agency because one of the mothers of my daughters girlfiends called them to tell them I was a bad parrent. Why? Because she had to come home before dark, clean her room once a week and was not allowed to have someone sleep over more then twice a month. We (the woman appointed with the inquiry and I) later laughed about it. But she admitted that they allready had taken mesures in the event they found I was actually a bad parent. In my case the girlfriends mother was called to leave me alone for she could have ruined two lives with her wild accusations.




posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Heike
Good grief, y'all sound like you're back in the middle ages spouting about "blood will tell" and stuff like that.

There's nothing magical about one's biological parents. "Natural" parents kill and abuse their kids all the time. "Real" parents are the ones who love their kids and take care of them, not the ones who contributed the sperm and the egg.

A biological parent shouldn't have an inalienable right to have possession of their offpsring that trumps the child's welfare and stability, and children are NOT necessarily better off with their "natural" parents.



Do you have children?



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by darkelf
 



We really are slaves to the system.

This story made me want to cry.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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if they sue the goverment for £500,000,000, they will soon give them back, the family law courts in this country are a joke, as are the social services even bigger jokes



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by Heike
Good grief, y'all sound like you're back in the middle ages spouting about "blood will tell" and stuff like that.

There's nothing magical about one's biological parents. "Natural" parents kill and abuse their kids all the time. "Real" parents are the ones who love their kids and take care of them, not the ones who contributed the sperm and the egg.

A biological parent shouldn't have an inalienable right to have possession of their offpsring that trumps the child's welfare and stability, and children are NOT necessarily better off with their "natural" parents.



In this case, they are not guilty of anything. They did nothing wrong, as it was proven that they didn`t. What your saying has no merit at all in this case. In some rare cases, it may, but not here.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Leto
Do you have children?


Nope. So what? The rights of the CHILDREN should be paramount here, not the rights of the parent to have the kids. Is a kid some sort of property?

Remember Solomon? The real mother wouldn't allow her kid to be harmed. if these natural parents were so great, they wouldn't be demanding their children back, without considering what's best for said children, would they?

I don't have a child, but I was a child, and I would have been much better off in any hands EXCEPT those of my "natural" parents.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by FiatLux
In this case, they are not guilty of anything. They did nothing wrong, as it was proven that they didn`t. What your saying has no merit at all in this case. In some rare cases, it may, but not here.


What? I said that "natural" (i. e.) biological parents aren't necessarily any better for a kid than adoptive parents, and that the welfare of the child should be paramount, not what the biological parents want. How does that not have any merit just because no one is guilty of anything?



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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I have some questions. I'm not in the UK or familar with their child warefare laws. Over here when a child is taken out of the parents custody and placed in to foster care there is a period of time given to the parents to correct the problems.

Some would say that over here the parents have to jump thru hoops to get their children/child back. Isn't your child worth that though if you love them?

After that given amount of time if the parents don't make a real attempt to change the situation or do what is needed to get their child/children back the child is put up for adoption. The parents rights are terminated in court. The parents have a lawyer all thru this to represent them. The state has a lawyer for the child/children in question and child welfare services is there also.

They like to get the children in a home that is best for them before they get to old. Usually a parent is given from over a year to 2 years to correct problems and get the child/children back in their home.

If in the UK the system is similar perhaps we are not hearing all of the story. Over here those records would be closed dealing with children and not everything would be open to the public.

Does the system in the UK work similar to the one in the U.S.? If so wouldn't it be possible theres more to this story than is reported? Also wouldn't there be outward signs of scury or signs more than just the bones?

Would just like more facts before I make my mind up on this. When dealing with the welfare of young children I like all the facts.

Whats in the childs interest is more important that who created the children



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


Try understanding what I said. I said in SOME cases, yes, but not in this case. They are the childrens parents, and they did not break any laws. So why on earth should they suffer by not having their children given back? Not all natural parents are bad. As one poster said, it was the doctor who made the trouble in this case, and now it`s the parents who are paying for it.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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I didn't think, they could adopt your children, without you agreeing.
Im pretty sure you have to agree.
Unless extreme circumstances like you are dead, imprisoned for a long time, or permanently incapacitated.
Like the case of the lady in Scotland who's children got given to a gay couple.
She had to actually sign the form and agree, even though she was pressured and not in the right mind to do it.
Are you sure it doesn't mean they are in a foster home?

After the heartbreak of losing their first three children Mr Webster, 35, and his 27-year-old wife fled to Ireland to stop their fourth child, Brandon, being taken into care at birth.

Its because they fled the country.
If you cant be found within a reasonable amount of time you are considered gone and the children considered parent less.
They would have been summoned to court to answer to this when the children were in Foster care, even before the adoption order.
Although this is a miscarriage of Justice in that they more than likely didn't abuse there children.
The fact they absconded and didn't stay to fight for there children kind of says its there own fault about the final adoption orders.
Because it was 3 years ago.


[edit on 11-2-2009 by BorgHoffen]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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not only will they sue them to death - but i believe they can get them back by skipping the UK legal system and going straight to the european court on human rights - they have been abused by the UK governemnt - who has been found guilty.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by FiatLux
Try understanding what I said.


How about you try understanding what I'm saying. [snip]

It doesn't matter now if the parents did anything wrong or not.

What matters is what is best for the CHILDREN. The parents are adults, they can deal. The innocent children who have already suffered are the ones who deserve to be happy, and that should override all other considerations.

You, as a parent, do not have a 'right' to have your own children back if it's going to upset and traumatize them.

Can you HEAR me yet?
 

Edited to remove inflammatory comments. Please remember that Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

[edit on 11-2-2009 by dbates]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Those parents should have a structured re-introduction program to get the kids to know them again... That is a joke and terrifying for any parent (I'm not a parent, I am an uncle and I am friends with many parents)

It probably wont happen though, I think there is never any contact in this sort of case. Maybe they can go to the european court of human rights? Don't know much about that.

At the very least I hope as they grow up they are at least told the true story and given contact details. Maybe a monitored phone call every month or a letter/email. They should know their natural parents.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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No you don't understand.
The Parents took off.
They left the country to Ireland for 3 years.
They would have been summoned to court many times to answer the allegations and prove otherwise, but they couldn't be found.
Because apparently they were afraid of them taking the baby she was pregnant with away as well.
If someone took 1 of my kids away, I would not leave the country with the other one to stop them taking that one.
I would stay and fight to get the other one back.
Because if you haven't got all of your kids, then you have none of them really.
They could have put all this evidence to the court, long before any adoption order was made.
But they didn't.And its to late.
This is a classic example of what happens, when you try and run away from things.
I now think the Judge was wrong in saying its a miscarriage of Justice and putting down the system, because they RAN AWAY!.
Although they were taken away by mistake, the parents could have proven all this in a couple of months and got them back.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Ok let me get this straight, this poor couple who has 3 kids get their kids taken away. But when the right people find out that it is a false alarm and the parents are good parents. The kids cant go back to their biological parents. WTF is that? But a women with no job, in debt already who already has 6 kids, 3 who have disabilities, can have 8 more babies to take care of and ask openly for money to take care of her kids she chose to have.What is wrong with this picture. We will give 8 babies to welfare mom, but parents (mom,dad) who try to take care of their kids correctly cant because our Judicial System is F** up. I'm appalled. I will pray for those parents, and the adoptive parents should let the biological parents in these kids life. And heaven forbid I hope the adoptive parents are good people and not abusive to the children.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


First off, get something straight. I`m not a kid, i`m not a dog. Don`t talk down to me, understand? I do understand that the parents DID take off, and that does makes a difference now. But what I was saying, if the parents were or are not at fault, and the children are held back by the courts, the court and investigator should be held accountable for any problems it caused. All it takes is an evaluation to see if the kids could go home. I am a parent, and I raised my three children by myself, without any help. My ex ran off when my youngest was two, and the oldest was five. she was gone for a little over a year. It never made a difference as far as the kids, they never forgot her. It was only when they were a little older, she ran off for fifteen years, and never had a thing to do with them during that time. That was the roughest time in my childrens lives, knowing their mom didn`t want anything to do with them.

DID YOU HEAR ME NOW????



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by nerbot
 


Wow, another government/court system failure - assumption of guilt before the fact.

These parents lose the rights to their own biological children and for what - a mistake and due to a slow CPS legal process, it allowed another family to take their children and adopt them!

Sick I tell ya - just fricking sick!



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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WTF? I thought biological parents always got the final say!? This is completely screwed up! It's not too late. This is just a crime!



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 




sorry but that is the most illogical thing I have ever heard. Screw the parents who cared for these kid, spent countless time and money raising them for the first years of their lives. Screw the fact that they loved the kids to death, and did everything they possibly could to raise them right. Forget all that, right?

I've seen parents kill themselves over having their kids taken away from them. It is pretty obvious you have no clue what its like to be a parent, or else your tone would be completely different.

I agree that the kids need to be kept in mind, but a serious injustice was done to these parents. There is a gap of 2 years that these parents will never get back with their kids. They spent a great deal of time fighting for their innocence, with the likely idea in mind, that once they proved they were innocent, they could be reunited with their children who were taken from them.

The kids rights matter just as much as the parents rights, not more, not less. The kids will overcome the change of switching homes again. Kids are versatile, and capable of moving on.

Maybe initially the kids wont understand and it will take some adjusting, but down the road when they mature and they look back, they will say "my parents really cared. They could have walked away, but they didn't" The kids will most likely be better off living with their real parents, who always loved them, right from day one.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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I can find no words for this.

I just cannot describe the intense, focused, almighty force of will and determination I would have to get my children back.

The government has no right.




[edit on 11-2-2009 by username371]



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