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What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:37 AM
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All these threads claiming to be debunking Chrisitianity seem to be backing up the fact that there are people sent here to put out so much disinfo! The proportion of how many of these threads that are reaching these forums are staggering! Makes you wonder where does all the hate come from? Do many of these people from our everyday society really believe they can do without the moral values and redemption from God? It seems humanity is always out to create its own demsie.

Starred & flagged.




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:43 AM
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I do not believe in any religion and never will. Just have to state that out right.
I found these short videos by mistake but figured this to be a place to see what you all think. At 1st, I thought these were a little mean, or offensive even. But as I watched them, I can see where this guy is going with it. Consider it a test to your logic, rather then your belief.

Lets see if anyone has seen these before.

godisimaginary.com...

So, what do you think?



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


This is a good question, why are so many threads attacking Christianity?

I created a thread debating the validity of the Bible as the Word of God, I wouldn't call it attacking Christianity, but some saw it that way. Its partly a matter of perception, some seem actually bent on destroying Christianity, others, like myself, only seek to understand and analyze it (which leads to me disagreeing with it).

However it wouldn't be hard for even a casual scholar to argue that Christianity and the other major religions have done their fair share of harm. While individual faith is a wonderful thing that allows our lives to have purpose and provides lots of psychological comfort about our mortality, group faith (ie Organized Religion) has proven to be one of the most destructive forces ever devised.

Pharaoh's in Egypt were worshiped as gods and held absolute power, likewise Medieval kings used their supposed "divine right" to keep their tyrannical grip. Religion (particularly the state sponsored variety) has been used to hold up,

Genocide
Slavery
Tyranny
Inquisitions
Crusades and other WARS
Suppression of Other Religions
Suppression of Emotion and "Fun"
Suppression of Scientific Knowledge

All sorts of evil can be laid at the feet of religion when it falls into the wrong hands, the key is to be wary of those with religious authority (the same as we should be wary of those with political/governing power). Because those in the higher Echelon of a religion oft catch on to the incredible power they have over men's minds.

There has been an odd surge of these threads, I agree, perhaps the tough economic times? Having a US President who acknowledges the unbelievers? I made my thread because of several religious debates I'd gotten into, not to attack anyone's faith, though if I planted seeds of doubt in the minds of any "believers" I would not feel the slightest bit of regret... Doubt is the means by which we test ideas and determine the difference between fallacy and truth...



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma[/]

Here is a great summery a good friend of mine posted up.. he says it much better than I could:

"Yes, there was something Jesus did, which I wish he had not done, because it does not represent well the People he belonged to.

Once a Gentile Canaanite mother was crying after him, asking for her daughter to be cured, and Jesus would not give a damn to her. His disciples told him to do something for that woman or discard her, because she was making them go crazy with her no-stop crying.

What did Jesus say? I haven't come for Gentiles but ONLY for the House of Israel. Then, kept on going and the woman kept on crying and following him.

When he couldn't take any longer, he stopped and told her: Hey, listen, what do you want from me? To cure my daughter Master. No way, I cannot take of the food of the children and throw it unto the dogs.

He meant the Jews for the children, and the Gentiles for the dogs. But only after the woman understood and recognized her condition of dog, by saying that the dogs also feed from the crumbles that fall from the table of the children, Jesus saw that he would never get rid of that woman. So, he changed his mind and cured her
daughter. Then, to erase a little the impression left on her for being forced to recognize her doggy condition, he mentioned something about her strong faith and left.

That was terrible, if we can imagine what that poor woman went through till she got
what she wanted. The text is in Matthew 15:21-28."


So, you tell me.... does that show humanity how to love each other?



Here is the account you are referring to in a different point of view in Mark 7:25-30
25.For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

26.The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

27.But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

28.And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

29.And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

30.And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

Now let's examine a little closer.The Syrophenician woman was of Greek descent.Her ancestors were the original occupiers of Israel.Because of this she was hated by the Jews.

This woman knew she couldn't get help anywhere else.Though she was not Jewish and did not enjoy the rich blessings God gave that nation, maybe she might be allowed to partake of a crumb of His mercy.

Yahshua's comment was both a test of her faith and a thought provoker to those standing by Him. Though the Jews would have beaten her away like a dog, Jesus accepted her as someone truly crying out to God. She was an object lesson to those who ought to have had true faith in their hearts, so instead of going along with the merciless notions of that day, Yahshua points out her great faith,

“O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt” (Matthew 15:28).

Yes,this is an example of love.

Religion today resembles the many lakes and streams throughout the world,Polluted.Polluted by the wolves in sheep's clothing who's primary goal is to persuade the masses with false doctrine.You can Find it in all religions.

When you realize who controls the world you'll understand why religion is so tainted and watered down.
The truth is in there though.Yahshua must have know when He said to search for it as a you would a treasure.

Many people are waking up,eyes are becoming open.They are now realizing Yahweh's Holy spirit is inside us all.Read...Read...Read...That's where you'll really learn the secrets of God.Pray...Pray..and Pray some more for wisdom on what your read.

Keep seeking the truth all.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 
On one hand the right to speak freely must not be abridged or hindered,,but there is the necessity for tact,, and in my estimation Compassion and empathy,..both of these being important,, if not the main tenets of faith within the religions we are talking about..I think maybe Humankind is growing up..and we aren't so afraid of the dark, so too speak, and quite honestly, organized religion In my opinion Is set up to benefit the Clergy, whether you pray up or to the east or within etc. If God has only one dugout, then why is it so important to play the same game lol and why is this divine being such an asshole as to give all people thier own burdens of Faith?



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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Seriously though, is there a setting somewhere so that when these kinds of articles, and others that I have no interest in, rise to the top of the front page I can have them not show up for me when logged in?

Like some sort of preference setting where I can mark my favorite topics and my "i don't give a #" topics, so that I don't have to watch the ones I'm not interested in creep up the chain and stay for weeks at a time, but rather have it be replaced for me (through a preference setting) so I can more easily see the kinds of topics I do care about. I'm just sick of logging on and seeing this particular thread everyday.

P.S. Not everyone is a Christian, I don't even care enough about it to even try to "debunk" it. I believe that you should believe what you want, just so long as you don't go stepping on my toes, or trying to convert me. You know the whole "Freedom of religion" thing...not the "Free to be Christian or be derided" thing.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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I think Christians would probably experience a lot fewer challenges to their religious beliefs if they would not use every opportunity to shove their religion down other people's throats.

Just because we smile and do not say anything, doesn't mean we agree with you. Often times we are merely being polite.

Most agnostics and atheists don't really care what you believe, and what you do in your own time, but what we do care about is the constant injection of religion where it is clearly inappropriate.

No, I don't want to be invited out to dinner because I have been targeted by the church's latest program to convert someone -- and I find it rather insulting. Yeah, I already know all about the Bible and I have rejected it.

It's not appropriate in the workplace, in social settings or when discussing political matters. It's really not an appropriate topic with non-believers unless they bring it up to you. Yet, this little nugget seems to escape so many Christians. Many Christians will continue on with their behavior even when they have knowledge that their behavior is offensive to others.

Like asking to pray at a meal where other's are present who are not Christian and don't want to pray. Now, instead of excusing themselves and going outside or to the restroom to engage in private prayer, or even doing so silently without calling attention to themselves, they have to make a big production of doing it publicly, putting the non-believers in the awkward position of doing something they don't want to participate in, or starting an argument.

If you know you have a non-believer in your group, why do you insist on asking them to pray with you? What possible purpose could you have for offending someone? You do realize that many people find this highly embarrassing. Why must you take every opportunity to inject religion into the situation? Give it a rest. Give the rest of us a rest.

Further, many Christians believe their religion to be the ultimate authority on all matters, and expect others to respect this delusion in light of evidence to the contrary.

The world is not 6,000 years old, it is a generally accepted understanding that it is much older. Yet many Christians will argue this, dismissing entire fields of studies based on hundreds of years of work in an attempt to rationalize their beliefs.

It is rather insulting and somewhat disconcerting to have to deal with seemingly intelligent people who wish to resort to a view of the world that hasn't existed for millennia. Yet, Christians do this often and even attempt to legislate their skewed version of history in public schools.

Why? Why can't your beliefs be your beliefs? Why must you pervert them into "fact" and then attempt to force others to accept it? Really, if you believe abortions are a sin, then don't have one. If you believe animals with cloven hooves are unclean, then don't eat them. It's really very simple. But don't try to create a world which forces others to accept your superstitions.

At this critical juncture in human history, religion has been the driving force behind one of the most critical problems on our planet. Over population is the single biggest issue facing our species and one which has been perpetuated by religion.

And really, I fault the non-believers for this. Because of our policy to smile politely and keep our mouths shut and talk about tolerance, we've allowed religiously-based policies to threaten our very existence. We should have been challenging dogmatic thinking from the very beginning.

So do us all a favor, do the planet a favor and reel in your belief system before we're out of all our resources. While YOU may believe that God will zap more oil into the ground, the rest of us do not. While YOU may believe that we should continue to go forth and multiply, some of us do not want to see millions of people suffer and die. While YOU look forward to the end of the world, some us to not see it as a rapture.

God isn't fact, it's a belief based on nothing more than a good feeling you get. I urge you to start relying more on logic and reasoning. . . before it's too late for all of us.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by SumnerKagan
Before I begin tearing holes in posters and their posts, I thought I would ask this question of the site members.

Why is it happening, and why is it ok?

First of all, IF there are threads out there, that are attacking other religions, I wasn't able to find them. So, at the very least, Christianity seems to be assaulted more than any other belief system on this site.

Second, why is this happening? Why are there so many people bent on the downfall of Christianity? All religions have components that are debatable. All religions have histories that are less than pristine. At one time or another all religions have been twisted by men, used for personal gain, and have been responsible for much human suffering. But, on the other hand, few have done as much good as Christianity. Definitely a double-edged sword.

Finally, why is it condoned on this site? As I write this, I look at the top of the page, and see the title of Springer's thread- The Issue of "Hate Speech" on AboveTopSecret.com.
Now, I understand that "debunking" may not be considered flat-out "Hate Speech". But, the Springer's thread, he does also point out the more subtle forms of "hating", where little hints, buzzwords, articles and target news articles are used to influence and "steer" views in a negative manner. I relate this activity to the activity targeted by springer, as per the following:

We have seen an increase in hate speech couched in "news articles", subtle innuendo hidden behind professed disagreement with government policies and blatant, outright ignorance spewed forth for all to see.


The most sickening examples of this are seen when certain individuals appear to be joining in the chorus of protest against the evil that men do only to spread their own hate to the unsuspecting by introducing it a little at a time and couching it in the buzz words and rally cries of the day.

I am, by no means, a hard core "Christian". But, I have encountered friction from ATS staff before, for counter-attacking rude site members, "haters", people with obviously negative agendas, and others that seem to be given free run by staff to attack and bully. And, I am sure I will encounter the same friction here.

Whatever the result, I am stating right here, right now, that it bothers me that every time I come to this site and check out recent posts, there are usually multiple posts that are directed, in one way or another, at bringing down everything from the wording of the Bible, to the existence of Jesus, and anything in-between.

To me, it's more annoying than anything else. But, it just doesn't sit well with me, that this is totally off-leash, and in my opinion, practically encouraged by it's blatant lack of restraint or monitoring by ATS staff. Glaringly so in the shadow of all the other attempts that are made to protect and cushion the feelings of other groups of site members.

That being said... fire when ready!



SK







I think as long as violence is not condoned it is valid to criticize christianity as it is any religion. Now christianity has many branches so a criticism of one branch say for example right wing fundamentalists, may be in direct opposition to the philosophies they are sprouting based on biblical introspection. Remember Hitler was a christian when he began and the popes that burnt all those people during the "dark ages" were Christian and Koresh was a Christian. So being a Christian does not afford you the right to relinquish your responsibilities and you are therefore may have your philosophies criticized just like any one else.

God... If you don't agree strike me down now...



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


Hi Sumner.

I totally agree. Every time I have proclaimed Jesus I have had a rush of denial etc etc etc. plus prove it prove it prove it. You just have to BELIEVE.

OK, IT IS TIME TO TAKE JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOUR!!!

OK, sit back and wait for the crap - Jesus certainly did just that.

I am telling you that Jesus is our Saviour.

I am just about giving up on this now, except Jesus taught us to never give up.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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^^^^ This is exactly my point.

Proselytizing at every opportunity.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 

You just don't get.

People are sick of the influence that the church has on the government.
I want to live my life. Not crawl under a rock or a cave. I want to see advancements in the medical field without the church BS and red tape. Not have your BS rubbed in my face every day. Not be woken up at 6am on my day off to be asked if I believe in their #. It's as offensive to me as having a homosexual rubbing his lifestyle in my face. Not cool. You overly religious people have a problem with respect for others. The ten commandment teaches you that. RESPECT! I'm tired of all the wars and loss of lives. You don't RESPECT life.

You want to believe in something, that's fine. More power to you. It's good to have faith. The book teaches you faith with all the stories of those who faced though choices in life.

But you just don't get it.

Have FAITH in yourself. Cast aside your fears and self doubts. Do not let your mind, body, and soul be an empty shell. Fill it with all that life has to offer. Do so with respect to all things, and with faith in yourself. You've been given the gift of life. Don't waste it.

You need only know what the book asks of you. Those two things.
Faith and Respect.

Go forth. Be fruitful and multiply.

To impose ones own will upon another is pure evil.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by LeoPardus70
 


Hi Leo.

The churches are all sick - this is nothing to do with Jesus.

I hate all the churches - they are man-made power stuff.

I am trying to spread the word about Jesus, who will save the world.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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OK... so he didn't strike me down...


Second, why is this happening? Why are there so many people bent on the downfall of Christianity? All religions have components that are debatable. All religions have histories that are less than pristine. At one time or another all religions have been twisted by men, used for personal gain, and have been responsible for much human suffering. But, on the other hand, few have done as much good as Christianity. Definitely a double-edged sword.

First of all we want to change the world around us before we change others and what best way to start with your own society... Remember the biblical axiom "look after your own backyard before you complain about others..."????

Secondly this double edge sword you talk about... Well no man in history has talked more eloquently about this sword than Jesus Christ, so let me quote him"

Mathew 15"
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


So the church can only be judged by it's fruits... And it has had lots of bad fruits.... So Jesus says a good tree cannot bare bad fruits, so we have to ask ourselves is Christianity a good tree? Or to be more fair, Are all Christians who claim to be Christians good trees? Obviously not. So therfore being a Christian does not guarantee you anything.

Infact Jesus goes on to say about the future use of his teachings...

"many will come forward but few will be chosen"

The reason why so many people criticizes christianity is because it is dangerous. Especially on these boards you see dangerous rhetoric that has started wars... And half the time someone will just say we can kill them because its in the bible. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Many people have done evil things on "what is in the bible"

We are no longer in a church state, Thankyou God, so we have the right to question when a religion fails especially in our own backyard. That is the freedom afforded in the constitution and our rights here posting on this site. If you want to live in a church state go and live in Vatican city or dream about the dark ages.





As for particular examples can you please provide????



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by VelmaLu
^^^^ This is exactly my point.

Proselytizing at every opportunity.


I am just trying to help people.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by VelmaLu
It's not appropriate in the workplace, in social settings or when discussing political matters. It's really not an appropriate topic with non-believers unless they bring it up to you. Yet, this little nugget seems to escape so many Christians. Many Christians will continue on with their behavior even when they have knowledge that their behavior is offensive to others.


Well, I'm not someone who goes around and talks about this stuff in the office or anything like that. But as far as you or anyone else being offended by my beliefs, I do not care if my opinion offends you.

If my opinion offends you, then I think it is your problem, not mine. Even if I disagree with you, your opinion doesn't offend me. I'm so sick of people thinking they need to worry if they have offended someone. If what I say offends someone, then maybe they should get over themselves. If someone is offended, then it means they think they are above my opinion and so on.

I think the world has a much better chance of making it where people get over themselves and are not so easily offended, and learn to deal with other peoples differences than it is to try and create a world in which nobody ever offends someone.



So do us all a favor, do the planet a favor and reel in your belief system before we're out of all our resources. While YOU may believe that God will zap more oil into the ground, the rest of us do not. While YOU may believe that we should continue to go forth and multiply, some of us do not want to see millions of people suffer and die. While YOU look forward to the end of the world, some us to not see it as a rapture.


And now you are going to blame a religion for using up all the resources? That is just a silly and baseless claim. And I'm pretty sure the entire "fossil fuel" idea has been debunked with recent discoveries.



God isn't fact, it's a belief based on nothing more than a good feeling you get. I urge you to start relying more on logic and reasoning. . . before it's too late for all of us.


You're statement isn't fact either. It's an opinion. You blame people for stating their opinions as fact, but then also state your opinion as fact. And in a way no different than the people you point fingers at, proceed to call everyone else the problem.

What is needed is a higher level of thinking. People who can look at things from both sides and be honest about what they see. People who can realize it's not so much a matter of what you believe, but rather how you come about them. And so on. Pointing out the wrongs in another doesn't make you right by default. For example.

Take a look at wars. Each side see's themselves as right. Both sides are pretty much the same, they each claim they have been done wrong or been attacked. And so round and round it goes. When if people would look at it from both sides of the situation they could see the wrongs of both sides.

What if you were a Christian, and someone came along making arguments like these to say your beliefs were wrong. How would you like it? Wouldn't it be exactly like someone coming along today and saying your beliefs are wrong and that you are a drain on the world? So maybe it's best if you just allow people to keep their beliefs, live and let live and when that boundary is crossed by someone, regardless of beliefs, then point those actions out rather than using the actions of a few to disparage millions of people.

The entire world doesn't need to be alike or have the same beliefs or understandings in order to get along.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


Hi Sumner.

I totally agree. Every time I have proclaimed Jesus I have had a rush of denial etc etc etc. plus prove it prove it prove it. You just have to BELIEVE.

OK, IT IS TIME TO TAKE JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOUR!!!

OK, sit back and wait for the crap - Jesus certainly did just that.

I am telling you that Jesus is our Saviour.

I am just about giving up on this now, except Jesus taught us to never give up.


Mathew 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:37 AM
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their is so much christianity debunking happening not just on here but in every day life aswell, because people are realizing that they have been led up the garden path whith this movement called religion. it was created to control the masses which has then progressed into brainwashing them WHY ELSE WOULD THESE BELIEVERS BE GOD FEARING???????????... Power To The People



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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too quick

[edit on 8-2-2009 by spacial]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:43 AM
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As the old saying goes "opinions are like butts" everyone has one & are entitled to express it. All religions are false. I do believe in a devine creator but allreligions are very wrong with lots of flaws & errors. What the OP does not seem to understand is he has to expect flack & that everyone is entitled to their opinion just like he does



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