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What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


As a Christian myself, it is a little irritating but I do understand it goes along with the territory of being a conspiracy site. Just look at it as a way: It gives you the opportunity to correct their accusation and refute them with the facts.

However, I see you bring up the new crackdown regarding Hate Speech. The thing is, it's new- not retroactive. So the conspiracy threads will still occur (acceptable) but the mudslinging stops from this point forward.

Here is a comment from a site admin regarding the issue of Christianity specifically:


Proper - I disagree with the Christian belief system. I don't believe in the Bible, or in a god, and I think organized religion is a form of mind control.

Hate Speech - I don't believe in god and I think that anyone who thinks that some stupid guy on a cross died to save all of you is a brainless ignorant idiot.

Please take those as simple examples... I'm not professing to know every example in advance. I just want to help it be understood.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Hope that helps. Just ignore the older threads and posts which exist by the hundreds if not thousands and concentrate on what occurs past the OP's time stamp.

As for getting in trouble when we sink down to the troll's level: I think it has happened to just about every member here. We take the bait and it sometimes turns out that we are the ones who get in trouble. As difficult as it is (and it certainly is difficult), just rise above it. I promise you, they eventually get caught. I can't count the amount of times on here it has gotten to me, I turn around bite someone's head off, they are a thorn in my side on here, then a few months later I see their points are into the negative thousands or they are banned.

Karma does have a way of kicking the trolls in the teeth around here- I promise you. Even if it is not immediate.




posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet
This is a time of enlightenment. With enlightenment comes exposure. This is what is happening now. With exposure comes fear and anger. This will not go away!

Christians on ATS are not victims, but are volunteers. This is not a Christian website, but there are plenty of Christian websites on the internet. This is a conspiracy website and this fact cannot be overlooked! It tells me that the majority of Christians that come onto ATS are proselytizing!

I will continue to debunk Christian beliefs and tactics. It is expected on ATS to challenge anything that one believes is wrong, or a form of denial, or covert controlling.




Oh - Excellent!

I - like so many - was assimilated into the Christian faith by family. At some point I stepped aside - out of the box - and looked at it from a realistic perspective. My conclusion was/is Christianity makes no sense what-so-ever. Also - and most importantly - it puts a lock on your brain. It keeps you from going beyond - from asking questions.

I agree there is Enlightenment and Spirituality - Religion is man made.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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It is the Pharisee Anti-Christ Christian message that I am against not the message of Jesus. My own father is a true Christian and I have not a thing against him as he is a warm and non-judgmental man. It is not wrong to rebuke the church as Jesus himself made it a habitual habit. All are welcome into my home if they bring kindness with them.


Romans 14:
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Matthew 25:
15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy
 


It seems you are slamming the Catholic church. Easy prey. This organization if full of man made rules and regulation. (Religion) I once was Catholic. Born and raise. Once I read the Bible I quite the Catholic church. Religion is no good. Relationship with YHWH is great. What you perceive to be Christian is not Christian at all. Very few people you call Christians have ever read the Word of YHWH. If they have they would leave the organization they are in. True Christianity is about relationship with YHWH through Yeshua. I hope you find the truth some day. The only way may be not to listen to others but read the Word yourself.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 



Oh - Excellent!

I - like so many - was assimilated into the Christian faith by family. At some point I stepped aside - out of the box - and looked at it from a realistic perspective. My conclusion was/is Christianity makes no sense what-so-ever. Also - and most importantly - it puts a lock on your brain. It keeps you from going beyond - from asking questions.

I agree there is Enlightenment and Spirituality - Religion is man made.


Thank you!

I KNOW that there are many who are searching for truth outside of religion, who like myself were discouraged and disgusted by "tired out" religion, where there is nothing "new" under the sun.

It is great to find another compatriot!


reply to post by AshleyD
 




then a few months later I see their points are into the negative thousands or they are banned.


I am into the negative thousands on BTS because I could not figure out how to implement the confounded avatar, and background images. I used up my mistake on the BTS points! You however, are very clever with avatar's and such, and even have helped me out once or twice...thank you!



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by count66
reply to post by badmedia
 


No need for apologies.

I just misunderstood you - my fault.

I agree with what you say - I myself have struggled with Paul a lot of the time and to be honest I'm still undecided.

I think he really believed and that he spoke a lot of Truth - even the apostles accepted his chastisement on occasion, e.g. Peter.

But in saying that he was a man under huge persecution and stree at the time and I believe often had to use human methods and therefore failings in trying to achieve what he was trying to achieve.

Therefore I think that it is possible that he made mistakes in his teachings for he was human ;as and is all the church that followed and therefore their mistakes also.

Thanks for the link. I will check it out

But to stick to the Thread - I agree that there are threads that attach other religions but for some reason Christianity is particularly strongly attached and my belief is that this is due to the message of Christianity as the power of human desire and Satans influence grows in this world.


Well I don't disagree with everything Paul says. It's just that on a whole what Paul does is what I was shown not to do. Mostly that he puts people into authority, plays a political role and appeals to the authorities of the time, and in many ways turns over the religion and such to that authority.

It does sound good what he says, and he says stuff in the name of Jesus and praises Jesus, but isn't that pretty much what you would expect if someone was to manipulate it? I mean politicians says things that sound good all the time, praise America they say, praise the constitution, but they are just saying it while doing and promoting things against it. And it goes unnoticed and people just accept it. I see Paul basically doing what a politician does.

And it seems to me that most of the Christian Debunking is generally aimed towards the hypocrisy of the church and such, rather than the actual teachings and understandings of Jesus. Most people don't understand what Jesus said, but they can see what people do in his name, and that is what they associate it with and dismiss it all because of it.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
And it seems to me that most of the Christian Debunking is generally aimed towards the hypocrisy of the church and such, rather than the actual teachings and understandings of Jesus. Most people don't understand what Jesus said, but they can see what people do in his name, and that is what they associate it with and dismiss it all because of it.


BINGO.

I feel like a broken record I've said this in so many threads, but here I go again.

Why should what Religion you are matter if you do the right thing by your fellow man and live a good, morally structured life?

The hypocrisy I see is thousands of people that sit on pews, chant a bit and give a few dollars to a collection box then go home and feel 'empowered' because of their religion.

Then, there are those who take action in according to their beliefs (religious or otherwise) and get into the community. Help the poor, volunteer and generally be a good person.

Unlike some people I see here on ATS, I don't tar all Christians with the same brush.

I know some of you are non-denominational and simply follow Jesus rather than what a certain sect tells you is right. That, to me, is what your God would want you to do, but then again, I'm not one of you so how could I know?

When I get told I'm going to hell etc etc. by some pompous zealot who spends more time singing hymns than doing good works, then that angers me.

I feel like saying, 'Please, if your God exists, stand us both before him and let him judge who followed the teachings of his Son more closely'.


In summary, be what ever religion you want to be, but also be a humanist. Look after each other and do good and whatever religion you may be will then become a non issue.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


Thank you, I am not by any means a good christian either, but it is obvious that ever since i first started posting here, Christians are most often attacked on this forum, not only this forum, but many forums on the net.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by distortion9
Major turnoff...

By no means do I want or expect free thought and/or opinion to be restricted because it offends me. But, IMHO there is an anti Christian, anti American vibe here that keeps me from posting. To be frank, it makes me sick.

It's a strange world where the trend is to be more sympathetic towards radical Muslims than to conservative Christians....quite prophetic too.


Yes it is very anti american.

I am angry at where I see our country headed, but I am not am not anti american.

Nor do I think America is the cause of all the worlds woes.

[edit on 102828p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Large, very public, groups of Christians try to, and at times succesfully, interfere in the personal lives of others based on how they interpret their theology.

People don't like to be meddeled with and the easiest way to tear down the threat is to start at the foundations.

Or something.

edit: remove 'christians' and add any other group which realizes and flexes it's political muscle in spite of others if it makes you feel better. the statement could apply to many groups.

[edit on 2/7/0909 by spines]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


No, no! LOL! I mean their entire sum is negative. Negative BTS points is pretty common when people make purchases from the store. If this helps, HERE is a thread (but there are several others) where you can post and they will even out your points for you to bring you out of the negative. Or you can u2u a super moderator or administrator and they will fix you right up. If it's an issue for you, that is. Pay to attention to my OCD self if it isn't.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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I am seeing some opposition to my views.

Ok. So, are some of you saying that, if I open up thread after thread, putting down Muslims, trying to disprove their faith and attempting to steer people clear of this belief system, that would be ok? Because it is my opinion, and I am entitled to it?

Is this what I am hearing?



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by SumnerKagan
 


Personally, I think it would be fine.

They are free game just as all Religions are.

If you put yourself out there and throw yourself into a belief system that has points to be debated (or debunked as people keep saying) then don't expect any immunity.

If you believe in that Religion strong enough, no question or debate thrown at you will shake that faith. Call it blind faith perhaps? But it depends on the situation.

 

If you think you can prove the validity of your Religion, then by all means fight back. But if there are questions asked of your beliefs that you don't have the answer for, then it is not the questioner's fault, but your own.
 


All Religions are treated equal on ATS. There is nothing stopping you practicing your beliefs, but remember this is a conspiracy website, and you are not shielded from criticism here.

Guess what? I'm sure the debunking Islam thread would die pretty quickly.

Why? Not because of political correctness, but because of the membership here.

This forum attracts people mainly from the western world, as well as eastern Europe.

These countries have been Christian for a long time, so it is understandable that Christianity is the religion most talked about.

It isn't some sick conspiracy to turn ATS into an Atheist haven. It is just because Christianity is what we know, it's what we see on a day to day basis.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by SumnerKagan
I am seeing some opposition to my views.

Ok. So, are some of you saying that, if I open up thread after thread, putting down Muslims, trying to disprove their faith and attempting to steer people clear of this belief system, that would be ok? Because it is my opinion, and I am entitled to it?

Is this what I am hearing?


Why not? If you can make a good argument you should be allowed to. Can you make a good argument why the Muslim faith is wrong/misguided/etc? Or would you just fill it with racism to put down Muslims? That's the big difference. Every belief system should be criticized.
It just seems to target Christians the most because they are the majority in many parts of the world, and are usually the first ones to claim other faiths wrong.

Well, d***, the post above mine sums it up better than I did. Star for you.

[edit on 2/7/2009 by Epic Wolf]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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Yeah, what Ashley said....

Negative BTS points is a good thing...it proves you are not bored, and you are trying to figure out the TRUTH.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Christianity debunking threads are all over the internet..
the reason?
Freedom of speech maybe?

Some people like to keep things to themselves, some dont.

The more popular something is, the more attacked it will be as well. It's like a beauty contest
only that it lasts thousands of years :p

[edit on 7-2-2009 by aNdReSk]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 




Both sides, regardless of background and belief, have no tolerance what-so-ever. There is no middle ground. They argue in absolutes and nothing comes of it but more hatred.
.

I am a christian, who looks for, and respects the spiritually good truths that can be found in all religions,

I don't wast my time arguing,

We were given instructions to wipe the dust off our feet and move on, we were never supposed to force our beliefs on anyone.

And i still believe above all Christians are the most persecuted, these days.



[edit on 102828p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Sadly you don't speak for your whole Religion.

As I said above,



I know some of you are non-denominational and simply follow Jesus rather than what a certain sect tells you is right.


That's great, but sadly, there are many in Christianity who think they are given a divine right to live a life of sin, yet put down outside the Religion as being 'heathens'.

I've got great respect for anyone, regardless of religion, who can rise above the petty squabbling between belief systems and just live their lives.

I'd love to see more of it, in Christianity, and in all Religions.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


THAT friend, is THE most impressive post I have ever read on the subject. Kudos to you friend, for if more people were like yourself, I, and I beleive most others would have no issue with religious peoples. You friend, are a credit to religious peoples everywhere. Star for you.

Chrono



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


I understand, Christians spend a lot of time arguing among themselves too, in regards to doctrine.

I came to the realization one day, Christ didn't come to start a new religion.



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