Reeling, the GOP Turns to Joe the Plumber for Advice

The GOP, desperate to reconnect with the "common man", invited Joe the Plumber to speak to them at a closed door breakfast this week... What? Was Rush Limbaugh busy? Did Sarah Palin have important business in Alaska?

Story

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher chatted up GOP congressional staffers this week at a breakfast in Washington, telling them: "It's not politically incorrect to say you're Republican or conservative. They need to dig their heels in and fight for what needs to be done."

Joe wants to kill the stimulus package because it's an example of "American government ... kicking our butts left and right."

Does he have political aspirations? "I don't know if the American public deserve me," he said.

Trust me. Joe, the public deserves at least you...

Additional links:
Joe the Plumber, GOP Consultant
What Would Joe Do?

Crazy, crazy...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Does he have political aspirations? "I don't know if the American public deserve me," he said.

Trust me. Joe, the public deserves at least you...

I don't know... we are still in the very beginning of trying to recover from GW Bush... as screwed up as we may be, I don't think we deserve "Joe"!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I hardly think there is much there, there in this story.

JTP wasn't advising the GOP as the story incorrectly states. Rather, he met with the Conservative Working Group, "which is an invitation-only meeting of key conservative lobbyists and political staffers who meet most Tuesday's to plan their strategy in the U.S. Senate."

This group is such an important arm of the GOP, that I could only find (after eliminating the hundreds of dramatizing Plumber stories ) the single SourceWatch reference quoted above when conducting a Google search.

Moreover, imagine that... Lobbyists and staffers meeting with citizens they supposedly serve...



Must be a slow news day...



[edit on 5-2-2009 by loam]

I dont understand what the hell is so complicated?

Keep government out of my wallet, out of my bedroom, away from my gun cabinet, out of my life.

It's only purpose should be to provide for national defense. I stress DEFENSE. Other than that singular purpose the whole thing needs to be dismantled. Frankly, I could do without even that singular purpose they are charged with.

That's Conservatism.

I guess these dynasty politicians who've never walked down Main St. have absolutely no clue. They're so far detached they forgot what the hell the Republican Party's core principles ever are.

So they go ask so schlep like Joe the Plumber who will no doubt spout off the nonsense that has been drilled into his head by the neocons of late harping on brown people in caves, homosexuals bumpin' uglies and pot smoking teenagers. God, I hope Joe isnt an idiot.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I think that's the first post of yours that I've ever agreed 100% with. starred.

It would be wonderful if the Republican party could return to the real conservative values. I might even become a member.

Joe is an idiot. There's no doubt about that. I only hope the GOP works through their issues in the next 4 years and comes out of it with someone other than Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and JT Plumber as their "leaders". Because frankly, the 3 of them are pathetic, big government losers.

Loam, JT was invited to give the talk at the event and he DID advise them.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Gotta say, Yup. True conservatism has been totally hijacked by extremists, in much the same way true Islam and true Christianity have been.

Sadly (or not), I think the verdict is already in on "Joe" vis a vis "idiot". And most of the Republican party follows suit, and that toad limbaugh.

And it is the same on the "other" side, as well, I fear... true liberal ideals have been usurped by also extremists...

Yay for us the US...

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Open_Minded Skeptic]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I dont understand what the hell is so complicated?

They are all rich. They are all criminals. They are all so insulated from the real world that you and I are like a rerun of E.T. They get their news from reality TV and European socialist news.
They live in this strange universe where tax paying, law abiding citizens are the enemy. For some reason they all think that George Orwells' 1984 is a social conditioning primer.

What could be harder?
535 totally disconnected, self centered, myopic, egomaniacs being paid huge sums of money to vote for the highest bidders agendas and actually remembering what is right or wrong? Poor babies. So misunderstood.
It's impossible to do the right thing for your constituents when you get rich screwing them into the dirt and selling the nation down the river.

It's terribly hard getting everything your way when 330million people think you're scum. You have to have the media black out any real news and run 99% propaganda on the tube. This way they can't really see the fact that every administration is finding new ways to take away rights from the citizens and every member of congress is dedicated to his or her personal fortune and getting reelected.

Hard Hard life.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
someone other than Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and JT Plumber as their "leaders".

That's a really big stretch.
Loam already exposed how 'big' this non-event event was.
Joe the Plumber isn't a leader for the Republicans.
Not in the real universe. Not by a long shot.

whatever.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Loam, JT was invited to give the talk at the event and he DID advise them.

"Them" who?

What "event"?

"Advise"? Really?

Your source says Wurzelbacher was "advising the GOP", when in actuality he was just "joining" a breakfast meeting attended by a few congressional aids and lobbyists.

That is a far cry from "advising" the "GOP" now, isn't it?

Frankly. I'm confused by the apparent desire of so many to create a 'desperation' story out of these simple events.

And whatever you think about JTP's political positions, I'm particularly disturbed that an ordinary citizen's desire to participate in the political process can be so easily ridiculed. That is the tone in nearly every article that discusses this simple breakfast and I can't help but wonder why?

So I see this story as a dishonest representation of the truth and elitist for manufacturing its point at the expense of an ordinary citizen.

Sorry, but I think that's just wrong.

So much for change.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by loam
"Them" who?

The Conservative Working Group, a GOP strategy group.

What "event"?

Their weekly strategy-planning, invitation-only meeting.

"Advise"? Really?

Yes, really. He was invited to speak to them to get his perspective. It's an invitation-only meeting. He gave "a talk". He didn't simply attend. And yes, he gave them advice. He advised them.

Frankly. I'm confused by the apparent desire of so many to create a 'desperation' story out of these simple events.

Exactly, it was a SIMPLE event.

This is not a desperation story. It's not a big deal. It's a light story about people in politics. Everyone knows the GOP is having some trouble after the recent election, getting their footing. Some strange things are happening in the party and I wouldn't be surprised if it split into two parties, which would be the best thing for this country. The GOP needs to return to its conservative roots or else fall apart. This is just a light-hearted story that speaks to that issue.

I think you're taking it a little too seriously. Whatever problems or opinions you have with this story are yours and you're entitled to them. But it is not dishonest. There are many sources that support the facts here.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You really know how to play obtuse with your responses, don't you?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He gave "a talk". He didn't simply attend. And yes, he gave them advice. He advised them.

...

Whatever problems or opinions you have with this story are yours and you're entitled to them. But it is not dishonest. There are many sources that support the facts here.

No, there aren't.

The facts are, as first reported by Politico, the following:

If nothing else, GOP aides are using the appearance to get staffers to attend the 9 a.m meeting.

“In case you weren’t planning to attend CWG tomorrow morning, you might want to reconsider because Joe the Plumber will be joining us!” Kimberly Wallner, an aide to South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint, wrote in a message to her e-mail list this afternoon.

What is in bold are the only facts you have. No indication that his level of participation was intended to 'advise the GOP' as your thread and the myriad of Gerber food regurgitation articles expressly mischaracterize.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Exactly, it was a SIMPLE event.

It's not a big deal. It's a light story about people in politics.

...

I think you're taking it a little too seriously.

Then why are you creating a thread about it by perpetuating the lie that this is evidence of the GOP's desperation simply because of a citizen's participation in a routine low-level political breakfast meeting in Washington?

Couldn't you find better evidence than this to make such a point? Or is it just easier to ridicule an ordinary citizen's participation in the political process whose opinions you happen to disagree with?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Everyone knows the GOP is having some trouble after the recent election, getting their footing. Some strange things are happening in the party and I wouldn't be surprised if it split into two parties, which would be the best thing for this country.

The GOP needs to return to its conservative roots or else fall apart.

None of which really has much to do with THIS story, now does it?

It seems to me there would be much better evidence of those points than the pathetic attempt made by your source article and this thread.

Whatever happened to denying ignorance?

Think about how you positioned this simple occurance:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

"Reeling, the GOP Turns to Joe the Plumber for Advice"

"The GOP, desperate to reconnect with the "common man", invited Joe the Plumber"

"Joe is an idiot. There's no doubt about that."

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about JTP, but the "facts" are a far cry from what you have done here in this thread.


[edit on 6-2-2009 by loam]

Loam, you're just going to have to find a way to deal with it. I'm not going to be dragged into this again with you.

Moving along.

Seems "Just Joe" is coming to Conservative Internet TV.

Conservative Internet TV Brings Joe the Plumber to D.C.

To kick it off, Joe is in Washington, D.C. this week to help cover the U.S. financial crisis and the proposed stimulus package. Wurzelbacher will also be participating at the inaugural Conservatism 2.0 conference (sponsored by PJTV) and held jointly with CPAC 2009 in Washington at the end of this month. Additionally, Pajamas noted an increased emphasis on its new Internet television venture (www.pjtv.com) for center-right and conservative audiences.

Joe the Plumber has come to represent the voice of the average person. His coverage of the Gaza Conflict for PJTV in January attracted worldwide attention - sometimes by media that both denigrated his lack of experience while at the same time soliciting their own populist voices via twitter, consumer reporting, etc.

Wurzelbacher's own "Just Joe" segment at PJTV will focus on issues of the day as explored and reported by Joe. Wurzelbacher is currently in Washington to understand and report on the U.S. financial crisis and the proposed stimulus plan, bringing with him a common man's perspective. He is meeting with groups such as The Heritage Foundation, The Conservative Working Group, the Club for Growth, Cato Institute, and others.

Sounds to me like Joe is setting his sights on a political future. Either that or a television personality. I really wonder how far this will go...

So lemme get this straight ... when it's a bunch of 5-9 year old poor black/hispanic kids naming their school after Obama, you praise it and applaud them 'getting involved in the process'.

But when middle-aged conservative white guy 'Joe the Plumber' is asked to come to small nothing event by some republicans he is not only suddenly a 'leader' in the republican party but also an 'idiot' and a 'pathetic, big government loser' - (your quotes)

Reference for the kiddie comment -
Thread Here

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's wonderful to see kids getting involved in the political process at such a young age. Good for them. If it's what they and the administration wants, I think it's great that they were able to vote for it and make it happen.

Ooooookay .... just getting everything on the table and in proper context so we all can see exactly what you are saying. It's crystal clear now.

If you don't see the difference between representatives of the Republican party inviting Mr. Wurzelbacher to speak to them at their event and a bunch of little kids, who don't represent anyone, voting to change their school name (regardless of the social status, race or poverty level of anyone involved), I'm afraid I can't help you.

I didn't say that Joe was a leader in the Republican party. I said:

"I only hope the GOP works through their issues in the next 4 years and comes out of it with someone other than Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and JT Plumber as their "leaders"."

The rest (that JT Plumber is an idiot and a pathetic, big-government loser) is my opinion and I absolutely stand by it. Not asking anyone to agree with me, just voicing my opinion.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Opinions...not a problem....

Making up the facts is quite another thing, Benevolent Heretic.



Weak. Seriously.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by loam]

oh my! This says so much about so much

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm afraid I can't help you.

That's an odd thing to say. FlyersFan didn't ask for your help and her post didn't give any indication that she needed your help on anything.

I didn't say that Joe was a leader in the Republican party.

That's what your post sounded like you were saying. The way it was worded sounded like you were saying they were leaders to me.

Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and JT Plumber

These aren't leaders in the party. They are a 'loser', a 'radio show host' and a 'wannabe owner of a plumbing business'. So your fears (or insinuations) that these people are somehow leaders, or are potential future leaders in the party, are wrong. They aren't. They won't be.

Republican leadership -

House Republican Leader John Boehner
Republican Whip Eric Cantor
RNC Chairman Michael Steele
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
Sen. Mitch McConnell
Sen. Lamar Alexander
Sen. Lindsey Graham
Sen. Orin Hatch
Sen. Richard Lugar
Sen. Richard Shelby
Sen. Arlene Specter
Sen. John Thune
Gov. Charlie Christ of Florida
Gov. 'Bobby' Jindal of Louisiana
Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota
Gov. Mark Sanford of South Carolina

Bill Frist could come out for 2012. And perhaps Mitt Romney. Those are past leaders who have potential to be future leaders.

Sen. John McCain - the leader of the so-called Gang of 14 - which includes Republicans and Democrats.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by Bad Dog]

Loam, unless you can name specifically what facts I supposedly "made up", your charges are meaningless.

More of Joe's advice to Republicans:

Joe 'The Republican Adviser and Plumber' spoke today and the world stopped to listen.
...
On advice to Republicans: "It's not politically incorrect to say you're Republican or conservative. "They need to dig their heels in and fight for what needs to be done." "I don't believe there's two sides to every story. It's black and white...there's right and wrong."

Source

The idea that there's not 2 sides to every story and that everything is black and white, right or wrong - is part of is what has gotten this country to where it is now. Bush's mindset of "you're either with us or against us" is a dangerous paradigm that many follow today, sadly.

I hope you guys are right and JT Plumber doesn't end up in a leadership position in the party because that would really slam it into the gutter. But I don't know... with leaders like Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal and John Boehner it's already in enough trouble.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
www.gather.com...

You used THAT as a source? That's a blog. You are always running around complaining when people use blogs as sources. OMG - that you would actually use that and quote from it is so funny!

.. the world stopped to listen ...

the world stopped to listen to Joe The Plumber at this meeting, eh? NOT! :shk:

For those who are interested in the facts about Gov. Bobby Jindal - (whom BH obviously isn't too impressed with since the 'GOP is in enough trouble with him as a leader' ) - take a look at his biography. It's much fuller then a certain POTUS who is now in office

Jindal biography

Jindal, born in Baton Rouge to Indian immigrants, was a Hindu but converted to Catholicism while in high school. He graduated from Brown University with honors in biology and public policy. Afterwards, he received a master's degree in politics from Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar. He is the only Indian-American currently serving in Congress, ...

His previous public service includes time as the Louisiana Secretary of Department of Health & Hospitals, Executive Director of the National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare, and Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. He was also the youngest ever president of the University of Louisiana System.

In the Spring of 2004, fellow Louisianan, Christopher Mora, a Navy veteran and graduate student at Harvard University, proposed and coordinated an invitation for Jindal to serve as one of the Visiting Fellows for the Harvard Kennedy School of Government Institute of Politics. Jindal's presentations, focused on health care public policy and welfare reform, were both popular and highly attended.

Official Website of Gov. Jindal

Governor Jindal has put forth detailed plans for reforming our state's health care, education, and transportation systems, as well as for encouraging workforce development and continuing recovery efforts in areas devastated by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, as well as Hurricanes Gustav and Ike.

Governor Jindal led the historic response to Hurricane Gustav by successfully moving 1.9 million people out of harms’ way, the largest evacuation of citizens in the history of the United States, including the largest medical evacuation in history moving more than 10,400 people from hospitals, nursing homes, and other medical facilities out of the path of the storm.

The mess that the DEMOCRATIC GOV. left behind when she screwed up the Katrinia response was massive. Jindal has been working with the local DEMOCRATIC leadership - like (d) Mayor Nagin (who likes New Orleans because it's a 'chocolate city') to get things done.

He has congressional experience. He has executive experience. He's run a state, and continues to do so with high approval ratings, and he's been very successful at it. The last approval rating I could find for him stood at 77%.

If you don't understand the difference between using a blog as a single source to prove something (which is what I complain about) and using a blog as a reference to something that's found in credible sources all over the web, again, I can't help you with that.

Just because something is written in a blog doesn't make it FALSE. But if it can't be backed up by other, credible sources, it's definitely questionable.

My source for this story is in my original post. The rest is just for follow up and fun.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]