The bible – god’s word or mans?

Not all of the men can be correct
and all of them could be wrong,
but one of them could be right.

One of them could be right, although not completely. Some degree of error should be expected everywhere. It is also possible that all of them are right, but of course each would right about different things. All of them are wrong to a degree in either case.

reply to post by andre18


they wouldn't necessarily be right about different things. they would just be telling the story with their own local traditions and color added. another problem is pecking order. the divine councils have a leader. this leader was the etymological inspiration for the god word, who, as i talked about earlier, is ENLIL. everything appears to spring board off this point in earliest history (pre-sumer).

reply to post by undo


Look I know some of the bible's stories originate with predating OT civilizations like the Sumerians but I’m got going as far as to say the gods of every religion originate with or are based on Enlil. That's utter nonsense. If you want to talk about alien submarines, Sumeria and Enlil make your own thread about it. Thx

[edit on 12-2-2009 by andre18]

here's a babylonian text about Enlil and Enki. It discusses the tower of babel event, gives some perspective on how the pre black sea flood people lived, and how that all changed and most strikingly, who changed it:

THE NAMSHUB OF ENKI

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,

There was no hyena, there was no lion,

There was no wild dog, no wolf,

There was no fear, no terror,

Man had no rival.


In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,

Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,

Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,

The land Martu, resting in security,

The whole universe, the people well cared for,

To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.


Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,

Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,

The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,

The leader of the gods,

The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,

Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,

Into the speech of man that had been one.

--------------

The text is basically explaining that Enlil is the big kahuna. notice it says THE WHOLE UNIVERSE gave speech to ENLIL in one tongue. pretty bold statement i think. how would they know the WHOLE UNIVERSE gave speech in one tongue to Enlil? and does that mean that the rest of the universe still talks ENLIL-ESE and it's just us earth folks that have a bunch of different languages?

it's quite possible there's a common tongue that the rest of the "civilized universe" speaks. perhaps they also have planetary and regional dialects as well but all still speak the enlil language. who knows. all i know is the text claims the languages were deliberately "made chaotic". to be honest, i don't think it's as simple as that. there's alot more to the story, but we don't get to read that part. if as it says in deutoronomy that the hebrews had basically memorized the info in the pentateuch as an oral tradition, it makes sense that it would be highly condensed.

i do believe this is all related or i wouldn't have brought it up.

enki, for example, also appears to be the egyptian RA (or RE). enki is just a title. it's not his real "name." enki means "LORD EARTH."

EN=LORD
KI=EARTH

later he's also called EA, who was a water god.

enlil means "LORD SKY" (or heaven, depending on who ya read, there's even a few other translations of it)

EN=LORD
LIL=SKY

LIL became the god word. It became IL. IL became EL. EL became AL.

ELOHIYM IS THE PLURAL of EL, and is the god word in the opening passages of Genesis.

From LIL, the rest of the god words develop with various incarnations such as BA'AL and BEL and BE'EL and AL'LAH.

here's a chart explaining the etymology



the researcher who compiled it was trying to make the case that al'lah was not the biblical god because al'lah was instead enlil. apparently he hadn't read the sumerian texts or he would know the enlil is the closest thing to the biblical old testament god you can get in an ancient text. if it was any closer, it would be the biblical text.



[edit on 12-2-2009 by undo]

I don't think you got the memo......i'm asking you to stop with the alien Enlil bs. I really don't care about some ancient alien theory or what ev. I'm not discussing aliens in this thread, im discussing the bible. NO ALIENS.

Stop dragging this thread off topic with enlil and aliens plz.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by andre18]

there is absolutely a God and there is Jesus Christ that in fact is coming back and you have the Holy Spirit. All three are the same, except each part of God has a different mission on this plane and in the supernatural.

The King James Bible is certainly the ONLY true word of God as the NIV, American Standard, NKJV and all the rest are cleverly redesigned to take man from truth.

The Bible was in fact, written by eyewitnesses and men and women present at the time of God speaking to man, the presence of Jesus and touched by visions and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It was written by 40 different authors, over a 1,600 year period and 66 different books. It has withstood the test of time unlike any other book in the history of mankind. It is telling us the future and in fact is more up to date than tomorrow's newspaper. The last book Revelation was written between 70-90 AD by the Apostle John NO OTHER GOSPELS inspired by the true God was ever and will never be written again.

Jesus Christ that in fact is coming back

Jesus second coming was supposed to be back when some of his apostles were still alive.

Mark 8:39 to 9:1 & 13:30-33
Mathew 16:28 & 24:34
Luke 9:26-27

reply to post by andre18


okay, i've offered etymologies, texts, explanations, translations and various others have given their opinions on the subject. i guess you must be tired of talking about the subject then.

you can't talk about a book that describes beings coming down to earth and going from earth into the sky, without also expecting some to bring up that it's space related, even if only to some limited degree. you also can't discuss the subject of the factual nature or reality of the biblical texts, without seeing supporting texts from parallel cultures. the only people who insist on letting the biblical texts support themselves. exclusively, are those who think all other texts are lies. this would not be me. i think all the ancient texts are telling you something important, even if they are somewhat confusing at first glance

for example, mt. meru of hindu legend is also known as mt. sumeru. i believe this is because the original mt. to which the legend belongs, was not in india but in sumer and that it wasn't a mt. but a ziggurat, which was called a holy mountain in the sumerian and biblical texts.

you can't talk about a book that describes beings coming down to earth and going from earth into the sky, without also expecting some to bring up that it's space related,

Yes i can. My main question to someone like you who believes in this alien theory is this: if the bible is actually talking about aliens and not holy angels - which you think are aliens. Then where does god fit into this?

If god inspired man to write the bible then the book is about the god and not aliens, but if it's about aliens as the motivation behind the authors then the books about alien and not god.

So where do you, how do you - merge the two together?

reply to post by andre18


i believe there's a government in the universe, made of various species and races of beings created over the eons. god is the head honcho of that government. he's an interdimensional being, so he can manifest (as can his angelic creations) in the physical and/or the spiritual. he presides over a divine council, who are beings similar to himself, that he created before us.

the mormons have a similar concept but they believe god the father is an endless series of creators, stretching back to infinity--- that is, we have a god the father, and our god the father had his own god the father, and so on. that's not exactly what i believe, but it is an interesting theory. it reminds me of the hindu - -" turtles all the way down. "

[edit on 13-2-2009 by undo]

reply to post by undo


Now, that in no way is Christianity, what you have described is something completely different. Why oh why would you respond to a thread directed at Christians when you're not Christian yourself?

And don't tell me you are because you're not. What you have described is not Christian doctrine in any sense. There is not a single branch of Christianity that would side with your belief.

reply to post by andre18


it's semantics. i recall having a conversation with a gentleman in which every word i used was a paraphrase of biblical concepts. he had no clue and was in complete agreement with it till i told him it was paraphrased bible. then he told me i was clearly not a christian (cause there was no other way to backpedal out of it).

read this:
the heavenly divine council
users.aristotle.net...

seriously, read it.

and remember the references i listed to revelation 9 and apollo?
what's apollo doing in revelation? (apollyon IS apollo, as the god of plagues)
he's a member of the divine council.

I know the verse. The verse

MT 24: 33 so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

He was talking about the generation that witnessed the events to take place before he returned.

reply to post by undo


I told you before i'll tell you again, i'm not debating aliens in this thread. I'm not going to look at your links or read your theory - it is too off topic to discuss. Just leave it - i dont care...

reply to post by andre18


it's not off topic. it's the bible.
read it. you claim the bible isn't legit, yet you categorize any defense of it in a negative fashion and refuse to read anything that might assist in dispelling some of your confusion

the page basically says that the bible claims there's a divine council. .. (why else would apollo be in revelation?) it also points out that this translation of the words was from the original hebrew and that it was also the same words used in the dead sea scrolls.

i'm establishing that the ancient histories of the other ancient cultures verify the biblical texts, not only in the matter of if "God" or "gods" are real, but the texts themselves are telling you something you need to see if you're going to continue critiquing the topic. otherwise, people who know better are going to assume you've decided to just ignore the data and that can't be how you go about denying ignorance.



[edit on 14-2-2009 by undo]

reply to post by undo


Andre, extra terrestrial lifeforms exist with nearly 100% certainty. Undo is drawing parallels between the bible and ET's, which in turn offer explanations to the tribulations stirred in this thread. Seems on topic to me.

reply to post by undo


reply to post by JPhish


No, no and no!

You are proposing that the bible is about god(s) that are actually aliens and not about a god that is supernatural omnipresent omnipotent etc. Your take on the bible is not a Christian view in any sense. My entire thread is based on Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine that believes in the holy spirit, Jesus and god.

You opinion on the bible is irralavant because it's not the same basic opinion as the people i'm directing it to. Otherwise someone could come along and say three headed eels are truly what the bibles talking about - and here's my evidance.

Ok i'm not talking about a three headed eel belief, i'm talking about Christian belief. Aliens and three headed eels have nothing to do with Christianity and is irrelevant to the thread.

I am asking a specific question - is there bible god's word or man's. When you say the bible is about aliens you completely miss the question. Before you even begin presenting you case you're already asserting the god of the bible is an alien. That's not the question im asking.

When i'm asking is there bible god's word or mans, i'm already asserting that the bible can only be god's word or mans. not man's, god's and aliens.

When i say 'god' i'm talking about the abrahamic god not an alien god. For you to say the abrahamic god is actualy an alien means nothing because it means the question im proposing means absolutely nothing if the god is something else entirely.

And if that's true, if it's really about aliens, then the christians i've been debating are completely wrong in every regard. I would still be right because the bible would still be writte by man - only with a different meaning. It's the Christians that have the problem with your alien theory.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by andre18]