The bible – god’s word or mans? , page 10


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reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 07:41 AM by JPhish
Originally posted by andre18
No, no and no!

You are proposing that the bible is about god(s) that are actually aliens and not about a god that is supernatural omnipresent omnipotent etc. Your take on the bible is not a Christian view in any sense. My entire thread is based on Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine that believes in the holy spirit, Jesus and god.
all of those things could be euphemisms for many things.

You opinion on the bible is irralavant because it's not the same basic opinion as the people i'm directing it to. Otherwise someone could come along and say three headed eels are truly what the bibles talking about - and here's my evidance.
if there was evidence for that, I’m sure we would have heard about it. No theories need to be devised in order to claim that the Angels in the bible are ET’s. It’s a fact.

Ok i'm not talking about a three headed eel belief, i'm talking about Christian belief. Aliens and three headed eels have nothing to do with Christianity and is irrelevant to the thread.
unless I’m mistaken, undo and I have been using the term ET, not aliens. The bible has EVERYTHING to do with ET’s. If you want to use the word “Aliens”, let’s define our terms first.

I am asking a specific question - is there bible god's word or man's.

Huh?

When you say the bible is about aliens you completely miss the question. Before you even begin presenting you case you're already asserting the god of the bible is an alien. That's not the question im asking.
clever people tend to not respond to loaded questions.

When i'm asking is there bible god's word or mans, i'm already asserting that the bible can only be god's word or mans. not man's, god's and aliens.
things are not that black and white Andre. I can say that with certainty.

When i say 'god' i'm talking about the abrahamic god not an alien god. For you to say the abrahamic god is actualy an alien means nothing because it means the question im proposing means absolutely nothing if the god is something else entirely.
not really; it’s pretty much the same thing, using different diction.

And if that's true, if it's really about aliens, then the christians i've been debating are completely wrong in every regard. I would still be right because the bible would still be writte by man - only with a different meaning. It's the Christians that have the problem with your alien theory.
No they don’t; Christians believe in ET’s, what do you think angels are?

[edit on 2/15/2009 by JPhish]


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 07:50 AM by andre18
reply to post by JPhish


YOu're defending Undo as if he really isn't talking about aliens.....but.....he is. What, you think his threads on stargates aren't about aliens lol.......
Undo is making the claim that aliens truly are what the bible is rerfering to and not some god most CHristians hold to - ask him yourself



reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 08:07 AM by undo
reply to post by andre18




^undo^

and yes, i believe the bottomless pit spoken of in revelation is an old piece of ancient technology.


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 08:15 AM by andre18
i believe the words of the bible are inspired of God but also contain human error.


ok, my question to you then is, (now JPhish dont respond to this, i want undos opinion not yours - i've already got yours....)

Why do you still think the bible is inspired by god if it has human error in the first place? Basically, why couldn't god just make it so he told man what to write so there wouldn't be any errors?

Because you know there are errors, why then do you still acknolege it as gods complete wisdom when there are errors. How can you base gods wisdom on human interpretation?

Do you know what i mean? This is what i'm talking about......And then you christians blame us atheists for not accepting Christianity for the claims it supposedly has when it has errors in the first place. Mistakes that require the bible to be believed through pure faith because of the mistakes.

Leviticus 11:19 etc.

If the bible was truly god's word it would be perfect, because, it would be god's word. Instead we see error, not something that comes from a god. God does not make mistakes. If god does, then he does so purposely, then there's no way to tell if he wrote it either way. But that still means you - being the one who's saying he did, still has to prove he did.

Because you can't means he didn't because we live in a world of evidance that rules over faith. If you wan't to believe in something through faith - then there's just as much sense as believing in a pink invisible unicorn through faith. Do you understand that.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by andre18]


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 08:25 AM by undo
reply to post by andre18


i think jesus explains it best: the guys who were in charge, did the best they could with the info available to them. moses made laws regarding divorce that didn't even come close to representing how God would view it, according to jesus. so yeah, some of that is purely moses trying his best to keep things in order.

the guidelines were simple but became increasingly more complex as civilization developed. some of that complexity was the result of God inspired law, some local traditions and some were just the guys in charge trying to keep things under control, based on their limited understanding.

it's a history book, with occassional moments of God- inspired teaching and prophetical insight.


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 09:03 AM by andre18
reply to post by undo


Interesting so, because of that do you still think there's a heaven and a hell when you know most of the bible's authored by man? In other words, how can you tell which parts of the book is inspiration and which is mans own word? How can you tell whether or not man made up heaven and hell just to keep people in order?

How then do you live your life by the bible if you can't tell which parts man wrote for himself and which are gods intended words to be obeyed so as to live right and enter heaven? - or if heavens even real in the first place......



[edit on 15-2-2009 by andre18]


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 09:14 AM by undo
reply to post by andre18


well comparative analysis leads me to believe that God's laws are universal and universally understood. most of it is common sense and compassion. if you truly love your neighbor as yourself, for example, you don't rob his house, wish him ill will or sleep with his wife. and since this applies to all and sundry, it's not isolated to people of the same belief system, race, gender, national identity or financial bracket. the application of such concepts are the foundation for almost ALL HUMAN LAWS --- regardless of religion or locale. there's a few mix ups here and there, of course, but generally-speaking, we are all adhering to some degree or another, to the principles of God (and we are all also not adhering to various other principles of God).

It's a thread that weaves thru every nation on the planet, and as a result of the teachings of the wise men and prophets from those nations. so my belief is, if the text is a prophecy, that it's legit. if the text is common sense and based on human compassion and decency, it's legit. if it's purely historical, it's history, which may contain some human translation error or give a glimpse at the various laws developed over the millenia which both indicate the error of human thinking and the hand of God in correction of that error.


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 01:16 PM by undo
reply to post by Miishgoos


yeah, there's sure to be a few mix-ups, such as how suicide really hurts the people you left behind, who you supposedly love. many of the buddhist and confuscist teachings are common sense examples on the same concepts advanced by jesus and the ten commandments. some things are just true, universally true.



reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 01:37 PM by undo
reply to post by Miishgoos


for example, in hindu teaching they have the law of karma. that's an example of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but it's a much softer application than eye for an eye.


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 08:55 PM by undo
reply to post by Miishgoos


just out of curiosity, which cultures didn't have an example of "an eye for an eye"?


reply posted on 16-2-2009 @ 10:21 AM by blj777
reply to post by jon1


Hi Andre, I was just reading through some of your posts and it seems like you're looking for answers. That's good, most people don't question anything and just gulp down what's spoon-fed to them. You made a point earlier that you wouldn't want to go to a doctor that would practice voodoo on you. You'd want to be sure that you were consulting with a real doctor, who would give you medicine rather than poison.

The same is true with Christianity, there are so many wolves in sheep's clothing peddling diabolical doctrines and false teachings, which are just focused on sucking out your cash and leading people to damnation. The Bible says don't be surprised - Satan appears as a minister of righteousness to lead people away. For example, it's simply not possible for a real born again believer of Jesus Christ to do the kind of killing and torture which was conducted by the mainstream Popes and was tolerated by all of Europe's political elites, until Napoleon came and kicked ass. Jesus said he came to save the world not to condemn. A very good example of this is where an angry mob comes to him with a woman caught in the act of adultery, they goad him in asking him what they should do, as they know full well that according to the law given to Moses that the judgement should be death by stoning. Jesus replied let him, who is without sin, cast the first stone, and they all departed with the oldest first followed by the youngest, and Jesus also said go and sin no more.

I was really anti-Christian before, as I'd just seen a bunch of hypocrites saying love your neighbour as yourself, and then doing the opposite of what Jesus taught every time. I count myself extremely lucky that God has intervened in my life and shoved the gospel under my nose and in my face so that I could actually hear the real gospel of Jesus Christ which is written in the Bible and nowhere else, there are so many fake gospels, designed to confuse and lead astray. I know for a fact that God exists and that Jesus and the Holy spirit are busy carrying out his plan with him here on earth, I have seen them at work in my life and the lives of fellow believers.

Just take a look around yourself. Have you really swallowed-up and gulped down that Darwin nonsense ? He has written the book "Origin of the Species", without explaining where the origin comes from, he says in the beginning there was a filament of life - Big time cop out !! If Darwin were alive today he would probably look at the BMW 3 series and the BMW 5 Series and say that the BMW 5 Series evolved out of the 3 Series - they all share identical parts and characteristics. What about this how did Bees and Flowers evolve neither can live without the other. Explain this - how when people have been affected by DNA mutation such as Thalidomide etc their kids were born healthy, or how dwarves have normal size kids. Why are there not bird-men, or horse-men, where are the transitional living forms and proof why do monkeys still live and the link being between them and us does not. Just picture this - the first fish comes out of the sea onto land - how does it mate and reproduce ? If everything started from a single cell, how did it become male and female. Mathematically evolution is not possible. Science is nothing more than the observation of events, their quantification and the formulation of a belief that the next time the experiment is repeated it will go the same way. Why is there no civilisation evidence of more than 6000 years. It is impossible to say how old is the Universe with any machine. Why ? Because the hypothesis is that time has always been moving at the same speed. If you sit down to TV and fast-forward the film, how can someone else know if you watched the whole thing at normal speed or skipped. God is without limits he could have created the universe in a second.


reply posted on 18-2-2009 @ 03:50 AM by andre18
well comparative analysis leads me to believe that God's laws are universal and universally understood


And what comparative analysis would that be?

we are all adhering to some degree or another, to the principles of God


Now, how do you know what god's principles are? The only laws we know of that apparently are god laws are from holy books. But we could have just as easily made those holy laws ourselves - do not kill, rape, abuse etc. These are simple laws we as a human society are inevitable going to make because as part of being human is living with other humans. We create these laws for ourselves, because we must look after each other to keep the species going. To co-exist.

You are basically saying only god could have had the wisdom to come up such laws - like don't misbehave.......

Watch an animal documentary some time. There are plenty of types of animals e.g. giraffe that don’t kill each other - they don’t need god to tell them that. They don't because of necessity to survive as a species.

This common theme you think encompasses all human cultures actually as I’ve now explained extends to animals as well (we're also animals don't forget and literally are apart of the ape family) So then if gods holy laws you regard as high and mighty are just simply natural parts of life, how then do you see the bible as gods' word if the main aspect you presumed was holy is not at all?

This should mean to you that if gods laws aren’t god like then the parts of the bible you originally thought was gods wisdom are mads instead - shouldn’t that mean logically every aspect of the bible was written by man as well and not god?

It's a thread that weaves thru every nation on the planet


And almost every creature on the planet.

, if the text is a prophecy


What prophecy?

,if the text is common sense and based on human compassion and decency, it's legit.


This compassion and commonsense is seen in the animal kingdom as well - thus making the bible less legit.

if it's purely historical, it's history, which may contain some human translation error or give a glimpse at the various laws developed over the millenia which both indicate the error of human thinking and the hand of God in correction of that error.


"and the hand of God in correction of that error"


Sorry can you explain that entire paragraph more simply - I don’t quite follow.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by andre18]
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