Originally posted by SiberianTiger
SHOW THE LINK- SITE RIGHT NOW I CHALLENGE YOU BEFORE THE ATS COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!! RIGHT NOW SHOW THE LINK WHERE U.S. SCHOLLARS HAVE SAID THIS ( I KNOW THEY HAVEN'T AND IF THEY DID IT WILL JUST BE YANK lying to help Yank make Rus look bad) now do as I said! plus Russia gave the TOTAL Korean- chinese- Rus MiG 15's that were brought down 231 Chinese/Korean MiG, Yaks and Sukoi's plus 335 Rus MiG 15's a total of 366 compared to 1106 that's still a killing and we (Russians ain't concerened with korean chinese figs) were showing our "MIGHTY RUS's MiG figures compared to F-80/84/86 figs

[edit on 30-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]



[edit on 30-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Dude you need to calm the hell down, not only that but you really don't have a clue what you are talking about, you just use goofy anecdotal information that is totally bogus.

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
this site a yank site ofcourse there going to say this claims of Russia's overstates, Rus has said 1106 F-80/84/86's TOTAL losses while VVS lost only 335 MiG 15s thats what we have always said.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Wrong again my friend, jesus, you must love to be wrong.

Only 78 F-86's were lost during the Korean War, compared to almost 800 MiG-15's.

How about everybody just calm down. No more yelling etc. You guys are worse than a bunch of Civil War Recreationists arguing over Grant and Lee. Lets all take a chill pill and get back to debating the main topic shall we?

Back on topic: Id take the Block 60 F-16 over the Mig-29 anyday. Better range, better avionics, etc etc. While the Mig-29 is an impressive machine, the F-16 wins the day.

[edit on 1/30/05 by FredT]

Despite its apparent virtues, the MiG-29 has not fared well in actual combat use. It has flown in combat in the 1991 Gulf War, over Serbia, and in the Eritrea-Ethiopia conflict in 1999. At least a dozen have been shot down, with no victories. Some have seen this as a sign of the MiG-29's deficiencies, but it would perhaps be more accurate to say that its failure reveals that in modern aerial warfare, tactics, pilot training, and a complete air group (with electronic warfare, tactical recce, AWACS, and tanker support) are more significant than individual aircraft qualities.

The whole story, not just the shortend story

[edit on 30/1/2005 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

What else do you want to know? A bunch have been shot down in Iraq, and Ethiopia.

I KEEP telling you these are NONRussian MiG 29's thats why they were shot down by U.S. in Gulf War 1 =(G.F.1) p.s. there were no MiG 29 shot down in Ethiopia from the info I have it was a Ethiopian Sukoi 27 piloted by a Ukrainian Woman Pilot who shot down an Eritrean MiG 29.

It's the same site that Grunt provided. It's the one that said America only shot down 300 Russian Mig-15's.

disturbed,again;

As no Chinese archives have been opened up at this time, only USAF claims against Russian air forces have been reviewed. (In other words, the claims against Chinese air forces are counted here, without any challenge.)
The numbers shown above, and used throughout, are claims, and are almost certainly in excess of the actual number of MiGs downed. During the war the USAF pilots claimed over 800 enemy planes. Postwar research revised that figure downward to 379, which closely matches the admitted Russian losses of 345

btw america deployed 680-700 f86 in the korean war and lost 103-107 f86s, but theres a polemic about the planes that crashed on NU controlled territorie, its genaraly accepted (even from US propaganda sources) that the russians were not in the war at 1953

i know that some members are bored with that discussion, im too, so its my last post about that topic in this thread, im just want more research about that topic, because there some numbers not given (russian migs deployed, true russian loses, etc), i only tried to be objetive, but i know that from both sides are "patriots" and fanatics, is still hard to beat that 10-1 kill ratio myth, mainly by that 50 years propaganda.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by grunt2]

There was no 10:1 nor 3:1 victory infavor of YOU YANKS WE Russkies beat you Yanks 1106 to 335 THAT'S IT !!! AND hOCKEYGUY YOUR NOT ABOUT TO BE THE NEW GUY WHO COMES IN AND SOCALLED "SAVES THE DAY WITH SOME SOCALLED NEW INFO" YOU SITE ARE NOTHING BUT yank SITE WHICH EQUALS P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A did you notice ALL your doing is just posting what Yank sources say hu? ofcourse their gonna say that until you show Russian Gov's official staements saying U.S. won plus showing the figures these are nothin but P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A but in the frezy of this all you TOTALY overlooked this,P.S. LIKE I SAID before 1106 F-80/84/86's "SHOT DOWN" to 335 MiG 15's shot down, THATS IT!!

[edit on 31-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

It is simply common knowledge that the MiG Fulcrum is a better fighter. Better radar, targeting system overall avionics. There is no comparison. Legendary fighter versus overhyped junk. this topic is silly as everyone knows the answer. There is no logical deabte

I don't believe F15/16/18's are peices of junk but I defenetly know with certainty Sukoi's and MiG's are better than Yank's planes and Russian Radar's on Fighters are beter AND Rus dogfighting tactic are the BEST in the world.

it doesnt really matter who is the better dogfighter anymore. What matters is who is detected first, who gets advatage between one detection and the other, and who can make thier missiles hit first. Thrust vectoring and hyper manuverability isn't going to do a thing against a missle bearing down on you at supersonic speeds

For those MiG supporters out there, what makes the MiG-29 radar and avionics better then the F-16.

You are not going to convice anyone by screaming, one is better then the other, except yourself

wow! I can't believe you are asking MiG supporters this you should be asking F-16 supporters this there the one who start all this "MiGs are not better than ours" stuff but anyways I'll post the reasons why MiG 29 Radar is better.

[edit on 1-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

lol I'm riveted What kind of reliable info are you going to come up with? And source?

there is some missunderstandings, the AMRAAM-f16 combo is used as long range aim-9 (visual range), like the mig21 bison, not as a BVR or against low level targets like in the M2000 or mig29

OK boys and girls, the sherrif's back in town. I see Fred has put it out here, again at no one in particular..................calm down.

I've already given a source that talked about exercises between Mig-29's and F-16's. It showed the avionics of the Mig-29 were drastically inferior. And, the F-16 won. The F-18 has also carried out exercises with the Mig-29 and won.

the people confuse the excersices, there are also reports on excersices with mig29 victories against f16s, most of f16 victories are team-group combats, the germans fulcrums dont work good, because the lack of parts (specially the radar sistem -the problems arent by the radar itself-), so they use f4 phantoms to assistance, but in dogfights is genneral accepted that the german migs have better turn (istant-sustained) and better AoA, that despite of the use of NATO standar fuel (the engines loses 10% of power, because were not designed for such fuel) and despite the use of f16s last block against older migs29, there are also missunderstandings about dogfights, specially when the fulcrums used external fuel tanks.

the f18 is very,very inferior against mig29 or f16, it have an g limit of 7.5, but the high aspect ratio works good at very,very low speed (under M0.4), and is better than the f16 above 5000-7000 mts, specially by the f404 low bypass turbofan (0.3-0.4)

[edit on 1-2-2005 by grunt2]

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
I don't believe F15/16/18's are peices of junk but I defenetly know with certainty Sukoi's and MiG's are better than Yank's planes and Russian Radar's on Fighters are beter AND Rus dogfighting tactic are the BEST in the world.

Of course, your stupid dogfighting tactics become completely useless when an F-14 can shoot you down from >100NMs away.
And I shouldn't even have to mention the F/A-22.

I don't believe F15/16/18's are peices of junk but I defenetly know with certainty Sukoi's and MiG's are better than Yank's planes and Russian Radar's on Fighters are beter AND Rus dogfighting tactic are the BEST in the world.

Don't you just love it when people with (most likely) no understanding of a situation makes blown out and broad comments like this? Any idiot can take some ~20 minutes and use the internet if he hasn’t any other means and see what truly is inferior and what is superior. And if that person decides to maintain an ignorant stance on the subject at hand one only has to take a look at history to see who has emerged the victor in a number of A2A engagements...