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How would the Russians know exactly what the Chinese losses were?
500 chinese, korean migs, hell even if you give them f15s the kill rate would been negative, at the mid 1951 the russian had delivered 70-75 planes in the theatre
at early 52, the russians had gone,man the kills made by the f86s were only 345 (confirmed by russian data), not 800, and was very very clear that in the 340 planes are counting chinese-korean machines, if you dont want to accept this, its your problem
because they gave those planes, they were training pilots, and direct attacks, those are the "russian air forces",and when i did say 400 migs????
great...what your saying that all the wing (300 planes) were downed??? so the russians in the end fought in birds???, if you consider the cuantify of the aces that would be impossible, they left those planes in korea
I go by what is said. When something says Russian losses specifically, I count that to Russia. I don't go throwing in other nations. There's no sense in that.
As no Chinese archives have been opened up at this time, only USAF claims against Russian air forces have been reviewed. (In other words, the claims against Chinese air forces are counted here, without any challenge.)
The numbers shown above, and used throughout, are claims, and are almost certainly in excess of the actual number of MiGs downed. During the war the USAF pilots claimed over 800 enemy planes. Postwar research revised that figure downward to 379, which closely matches the admitted Russian losses of 345.
During the time that the "Honchos" (the nickname given by the Sabre pilots to excellent MiG pilots) were in Korea, between April 1951 and January 1952, they shot down or damaged beyond repair 158 UN aircraft against 68 losses, an overall 2:1 kill ratio
Additionally, Korea was for the Russian MiG-15 pilots a "target-rich environment." In April-May 1951 there were only two regiments of MiG-15s in Manchuria, with a total of only 72 MiGs (despite the fantastic US reports which talked about 200 MiGs in China at that time). These six dozen MiGs faced about 700 UN aircraft, odds of 10 to 1. The arrival of the 3 regiments of the 303rd IAD reduced the odds to 4 to 1 by October 1951, but the Soviets actually never enjoyed the numerical superiority so often mentioned in US sources. By July 1953 the Russians had about 300 MiG-15s in the theater (plus a similar number of Chinese MiGs)
Mig-29's have been downed by F-16 and F-15's. F-16's have beaten Mig-29's in exercises, as have F-18's. The Mig Fulcrum is certainly NOT a legend. The thing has a horrible combat record. It's yet to shoot down anything in combat, and over a dozen have been lost.
I believe many allied aircraft were downed above the gulf by MiGs! I'll try to find information about this....
Despite its apparent virtues, the MiG-29 has not fared well in actual combat use. It has flown in combat in the 1991 Gulf War, over Serbia, and in the Eritrea-Ethiopia conflict in 1999. At least a dozen have been shot down, with no victories. Some have seen this as a sign of the MiG-29's deficiencies, but it would perhaps be more accurate to say that its failure reveals that in modern aerial warfare, tactics, pilot training, and a complete air group (with electronic warfare, tactical recce, AWACS, and tanker support) are more significant than individual aircraft qualities
disturbed, the max quantify of russian squad asigned for korean operations (but not in active fights) were 300 planes (1953 russian pilots), that not count chinese-korean migs, at mid 1951 were only 60-70 russian planes, the chinese - korean pilots were very,very inferior, north korea only had 2 confirmed aces, the same quantify to china, but they had the mayotity of planes, flying completely new machines, the point is that the f86s only donwed 340 planes not that 800 (in wich is based that 10-1 kill rate, because once it said that only 80-70 sabres were downed, but the true cuantify was higher), and that count all comunist planes.
How could they do this, when all the American aces in that same period (Ralph Gibson, Dick Becker, etc) could only score 5-6 MiG kills? (except for the intrepid Major George A. Davis, who was credited with 14 kills) As a group, were the Russians 2-3 times better fighter pilots than their American opponents, as the claimed scores of 15 vs. 5 might imply? Not at all. Despite the secrecy surrounding Soviet operations in Korea and the lack of need to inflate the tally for propaganda purposes, several factors helped overstate Russian scores:
Many Soviet medium and high-ranking officers wanted to gain favour with the Soviet dictator Josif Stalin (well known for killing or deporting Soviet generals who failed in accomplish his wishes), and one way to do so was to inflate the score of the MiG regiments in Korea.
The Soviet pilots earn 1,500 additional rubles for every air victory they were credited with. It is quite likely that there were many false claims, just for the money.
The gun camera images of the MiG-15 were of such poor quality, that the Russian guncamera analysts decided that if a US plane appeared in a pic, then they would credit a "kill," even when they did not notice shell strikes, smoke, or an ejection.