Originally posted by SiberianTiger
There was also an exersice with Russian Sukoi Pilots vs. US F-15 pilots the U.S lost and the Americans came with thier 'ol excusise again "They (The Russians) had their best pilots while we had only amutures."

*knock knock* DIMA are you in there?? While I for one thought it was impossible, SiberianTiger has surpassed our last aviation prodigy Dima with unfounded, baseless, and just plane propagada like statements.

Please enlighten us with the deatils of this engagement, or is it more of your ususal rhetoric?

Yes I will and you'll be shocked!

I'm still waiting for the BBC article in which the F-15 was supposedly shot down by a Mig-29...

SiberianTiger is actually right on the fact that the MiG-29s offered to forreign nations are the downgraded MiG-29K's which are inferior...

The F-16's offered to forreign nations are the plain Vanilla F-16A's I believe, they have proven them selfs in combat opposed to the MiG-29K's, the Russian MiG-29M's should be more than a challenge for a F-16A and atleast on par with the F-16C.

But ofcourse, both aircraft have their charms

Originally posted by FredT

Please enlighten us with the deatils of this engagement, or is it more of your ususal rhetoric?

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
Yes I will and you'll be shocked!

Yes, it's more of your usual baseless rhetoric, yeah I figured, gotcha

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
There was also an exersice with Russian Sukoi Pilots vs. US F-15 pilots the U.S lost and the Americans came with thier 'ol excusise again "They (The Russians) had their best pilots while we had only amutures."

Give me the damn source....and find another one to make sure this isn't propaganda.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
There was also an exersice with Russian Sukoi Pilots vs. US F-15 pilots the U.S lost and the Americans came with thier 'ol excusise again "They (The Russians) had their best pilots while we had only amutures."

Give me the damn source....and find another one to make sure this isn't propaganda.

\will somebody give me data on Cope Thunder.. It seems lots of countries participate in those exercises..Japan, Israel etc..

Maybe siberian tiger was confusing Cope India..

Ah, your are (grelki), now
I get it .

No I'm not mistaken there was a wargame with Russian piots pilotting Su-27's vs. US F-15 after we Russians won, but the US. Pilots claimed that was because we had experienced pilots will thier F-15 pilots were rockies.

An impressive set of links I must say..the F-15 Su-27 match-up seems legit....
Mostly ruskie sites...but then again..that way all analyses will come from some country or the other..

I showed the Greek News paper "Politikia" that also reported the B-2's shot down so there were more sites that confermed it some American said it "Politikia" was a Nationalist paper, so my question is SO WHAT if it was ain't nothing wrong with Nationalism but Americans use these little things as cannon fodder to munipulate people into not beleiving these sites, I think you Americans called it "being Trivial" and anyways theres the so KI 325 what do you have to say now that you saw the internet proof that Rus's Su-27's Take on a win over F-15 hu? ya still think I don't know what I'm talking about..

[edit on 7-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

I am pretty skeptical about what the US tells it's people, but I am even more skeptical if they said the B-2 was shot down, if it was, I would have known, the media would have been all over it...

Man, it's a lost cause. They won't openly admit the Fulcrum is hands down better. We all know. Case closed. All of U.S. weaponry test and waregames are fixed. Too bad you guys can't see it. And it is really sad. The U.S. have a phenomenally high test rate for their weaponry then, warfare comes and we see differently. The patriot missile system passed wargames with flying colors but, in the actual situation, we found it to be trash. Same with the Falcon. With the U.S. there is always X factors. As far as Israel bombing Iraq, that doesn't hardly prove the F 16 to be better than the MiG Fulcrum. Fixed games, extra intelligence and AWACS all add up to make the Falcon seem better. But it isn't. A wargame with Germany? Be serious. Germany has one of the poorest militaries in Europe. You think the pilot were confident and eager? Why not South Korea or Pakistan? Countries with confidence. Trust me, the Fulcrum is the better fighter.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Asia Minor]

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Asia Minor]

The Patriot missile had never been designed to protect a city. It was never tested at that. It was for protecting soldiers on the battlefield. That is a very poor example.

And let's take a look at the track record of F-15's, F-16's, and Abrams. All performed perfectly against any Russian equipment they faced.

On the other hand, Russian equipment has very little success in the past half century. Their air defenses have failed to make any impact in Kosovo, Iraq, or Syria. Their planes have a horrible combat record. The Mig-29 has NO victory in real combat, while over a dozen have been shot down. That's compared to about a 100-0 track record for planes like the F-15.

And your claim on the German military only shows how ignorant you are. They are one one of the best in Europe. They are better trained then Russians. They get far more air time then Russians.

DD or you blind . or you dump.

dancing "Hava nagila" ,country, "centaki" or what you like ,
and make what you want.
but don't write the trash.
council from us af : repeat this ten times:

"We know that we are flying an aircraft that is superior in maneuverability, power, and avionics."

and the pure sleeping.
and neked guys to you for all time..

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Fenix F 308]

I don't know who said that, but I don't think it was any Russian pilot talking about a Mig-29. The Russian pilots in the exercises with F-16's stated themselves that their avionics were far inferior. The American pilots said they would take their F-16 over the Mig-29 any day.

Who said? The Russians YOUR OWN head? You know what as? As far as the Patriot, I have heard every lie crossways, backwards and catacornered about the garbage. Your manufactured escuses won't save you. Usually I don't debate liars but I just GOT to pull the wool off your act.
Escuses for Patriot Missile Defense System
#1 It wasn't designed to defend whole cities, just military installations and bases.
#2 Other famous escuse: The Israelis tried to improve the System which made it less effective than Saudi Arabia's.
#3 The out right lie: It has a 90% effective rate which is in direct contradiction to their own admitting of it's flaws.
#4 fact Patriot can not distinguish detroyed targets from live targets.

I know it's about the Falcon but my example is that in a fixed situation you get the results that YOU want. Look we are serious people that know of the U.S.'s gimmickry. We know that the MiG Fulcrum has far better controls and fight better in rough weather. The Falcon can't even fight in a light thunder storm. You need to catch up on reading! The falcon jams in sand storms. Not only that but the Falcon can't carry as heavy a payload as the MiG Fulcrum. You and I BOTH know that.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Asia Minor]