I Think the Rapture has happened, page 10

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

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Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
"the 144,000 of gods best friends will get pulled up to heaven"

Only 144,000? Isn't that gross.

Sorry...couldn't resist

Well not exactly. The 144,000 requires a minimum of 144,000 to attain, as it is also the number desired to repopulate humanity. It is not limited to 144,000 though.

reply to post by NatureBoy

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I am responding to the thread title: I Think the Rapture has happened .

When I read your title, the first thing that came to my mind was II Thessalonians 2:1 and the confusion created then in regard to the Day of the Lord and our Gathering to Him. The Thessalonian Christians were led to believe that the Lord's Gathering of His Church had taken place and all that remained for them was pending judgement.

Of course we know that none of this was true and Paul had to set the record straight, reminding them of previous statements made in regard to the Lord's Gathering of His Church.

When I came into the faith in 1979, the Rapture was one hot expectation among the church. As the years have gone by, I have noticed that the church talks less and less about the Rapture, or, if you will, the Lord's gathering together of His church. I expect it will reach a point when the whole idea of the Lord's return to gather His church will become a mute subject, just as you will find less and less faith standing upon the earth. After all, Jesus himself asked, in regard to His return, if He would find any faith on the earth? [Luke 18:8]

That is very thought provoking.

reply to post by Kratos1220

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The topic of this thread is a pre-tribulation rapture

NO! Read my op again, i give the quote from the bible which says it happens MID TRIB! Just like everyone describes it in the bible, rev doesn't happen until the end!

sorry, it just makes me so angry when people deny a proposition based on a faulty comprehension of the issue.

The trib started a few years ago, as the bible states no one knew not even the nost holy but as events unfold we slowly become aware -or wake up, know anyone obsessed by 'waking up' at the moment? OH EVERYONE! Yes, we're all starting to see whats going on, who doesn't know the end is coming? check the news, everyone knows on some level, only slowly are we starting to see what it means -as again, the bible says.

The things which must be done are being done, temple mount will hold a jewish temple by 2012, world economy will be fallen and replaced with a single currency by 2012, etc, etc. The rapture has happened, just like the bible said it would.

reply to post by NatureBoy

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The trib started a few years ago, as the bible states no one knew not even the nost holy but as events unfold we slowly become aware -or wake up, know anyone obsessed by 'waking up' at the moment? OH EVERYONE! Yes, we're all starting to see whats going on, who doesn't know the end is coming? check the news, everyone knows on some level, only slowly are we starting to see what it means -as again, the bible says.

You may not know how right you are! The actual Trib most likely started over a century ago. Now doesn't that tweek your knickers!!

It started so long ago that the thief died of old age! We are at the end of Armageddon/Great Tribulation. And you showed so well how this is so very obvious! Everyone was looking for signs that their leaders would say; "Okay, this is it, folks!" That they missed the actual signs that have been right in front of their eyes for more than a century.

The whole 7 year thing is Christian propaganda. It was actually much longer because God knew we were really dim and needed a lot of time to actually see it, but no one did!

The good news! We are not in charge, and hence, have no say as to how this transpires, regardless how we have been brainwashed to believe. This may be a natural clean-up that needed to take place with the earth and its peoples - like the earth changes that are going on (not the alleged global warming). A natural "spiritual" selection?

reply to post by asmeone2
No G-Ds ppl have not been caught up yet!
And just to let you know the term Rapture isn't in the Holy Scriptures at all!
It is mentioned as a Harvest or being caught up.
We are all sinners, and if anyone says that they are without sin, than the truth of the L-rd is not in them.
And there are a few of us Messianics out there in the world today that do follow G-Ds commandments ( all 613 laws and ordinances) keep all 7 Biblical Feast and keep the true Sabbath Day, and keep true day,which is Saturday not on Sunday as ppl think.
Read the book Revelations there are a lot of events that happen before the Harvest takes place.
Read Matthew 24, Isaiah 24:1-5, Matthew 5, and by all means read the book Daniel and the book Joel.
There are a lot of events that take place before the Harvest, plus the son of Prediction has not been revealed yet. For it is written in Holy Scripture no one knows what hour, what day, or what year the end will be, not even the Angels in Heaven, the F-ther is the only one that knows when the hour will be.
And just so you know there is not going to be a new world order, this is a lie, for Scripture doesn't even mention this, and it isn't the Roman Catholic Church either that is the end time Beast, for it is a person/s that does not believe in the F-ther or the Son. And UFO's are also not involved for this too is a lie. The Bible tells us to know believe in false prophets for there are many out there. And G-Ds Saints will not be Harvested right away for they will face the Tribulation, please read Revelations it is in there. Repent and follow G-Ds Commandments, start keeping his 7 Biblical Feasts and keep his Sabbath on the true day Saturday!!!!!
I will say this that a crescent moon and a star are involved!
And just to let you know the first Resurrection occurred when Yeshua ( you know him as Jesus, however this is his Aramaic name)Christ was here the first time.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by NatureBoy

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I am responding to the thread title: I Think the Rapture has happened .

When I read your title, the first thing that came to my mind was II Thessalonians 2:1 and the confusion created then in regard to the Day of the Lord and our Gathering to Him. The Thessalonian Christians were led to believe that the Lord's Gathering of His Church had taken place and all that remained for them was pending judgement.

Of course we know that none of this was true and Paul had to set the record straight, reminding them of previous statements made in regard to the Lord's Gathering of His Church.

When I came into the faith in 1979, the Rapture was one hot expectation among the church. As the years have gone by, I have noticed that the church talks less and less about the Rapture, or, if you will, the Lord's gathering together of His church. I expect it will reach a point when the whole idea of the Lord's return to gather His church will become a mute subject, just as you will find less and less faith standing upon the earth. After all, Jesus himself asked, in regard to His return, if He would find any faith on the earth? [Luke 18:8]

That is very thought provoking.

reply to post by SueHam2

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The entire Greco-Roman Empire duped everyone in 325 AD/CE when they changed the true Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, the counsil for the Universal Roman Catholic Church convened in Asia Minor.
This is why all Christians are following a false Sabbath they changed it in honor of their Sun god which is why everyone has been lied to for the past 2,000 years. This is also why everyone are celebrating pagan holidays such as Christ Mass, which is not the birth of Yeshua at all. For Yeshua was born in Sept during the Feast of Sukkot.
For further proof read Jeremiah 10:2-5.
Easter is also pagan for Yeshua was crucified on the Passover which is on th 1th of Nisan and was also on a Wednesday over 2,000 years ago.
And also Valentines Day and Halloween is also pagan.
And no Paul was not evil, even the L-rd choice Sha'al (Paul) to bring the word of the L-rd to the Gentiles. Not one time did any of the Apostles change G-Ds Law, Commandments, or his Sabbath.
You can thank the Greco-Roman Empire for this one.
And no G-D is not an evil G-D!
PPL have been refusing to follow G-Ds laws, commandments, and ordinances, and true Sabbath Day please read Isaiah 24:1-5 as you will see this.
G-D created all human-kind and all the inhabitants of the earth are his.
We all should be praising and Honoring G-D and thanking him for everything that we have at all times.
I ask you to stop believing everything that you are reading, for the Apostles are the good guys, G-D is also our all Creator and he is a good G-D, and Yeshua the Messiah is also good.
Here is a website that will help you www.therefinersfire.org...

reply to post by SueHam2

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Rather than tell me to read sections of the bible how about you read my posts? I've clearly read the bible, hehe in fact i read a few different bibles and i listen to a lot of Torah Talk from Israel National Radio so i'm well aware of what you say.

I would tell YOU to look back at the bible, find the bits of Rev, Lev, etc which have been posted to confirm what i say is true. Recently thanks to matrixprofit i've rechecked my sources and indeed the bible does suggest that that in fact the tribulation started over a thousand years ago, it is due to end on 2012 and we sinners who have now been punished will be cleared from the world - you need to go back to bibles before they were obscured, a great lie has been placed over the words of god but yet god in his glory has kept the truth open and clear for those who seek it without pride, ego or evil in their hearts.

It's a little unclear what happens next, either god clears the earth of evil (us) and his 144,000 who are enjoying heaven come down and take it OR the games over and earth is turned off, they all live in heaven and we never think again.

It's hard to accept but it's the biblical truth, sorry.

reply to post by NatureBoy

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NatureBoy:

I kind of don't see things the same way you do. I'm not saying you are wrong, Lord knows there are better people than me to get spiritual insight from the Scriptures.

I think we are living between two advents of Christ into this world. As first he appeared incarnate to reveal the way of salvation and to make atonement for sin. I believe that he will come again at some future time in great power and glory to raise the dead, judge the world, and destroy the earth. That Christ will come again to the world is common belief of Christians of all schools of thought.

Those who believe the NT have abundant proof that Jesus will surely come again. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3) "As the lightning cometh out of east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt:24-27) "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven" (Thess.4:16) "Our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28)

Very many other texts might be cited in proof of the fact of a future advent of Christ into this world. That advent is represented in the Scriptures as necessary to the accomplishment of other important events, especially the resurrection, the judgment, and the end of the world.

Though the fact of the Lord's coming is generally held be Christians, yet all do not allow a future personal coming of Christ. The Scriptures also clearly teach a second, personal, visible coming of Christ which is yet future.

Remember as the disciples say their ascending Lord rise higher and higher until a cloud finally blocked him from their view, two angels said to them, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts1:11)

"Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Matt. 24:30) "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him" (Rev. 1:17)

There can be no doubt that the apostles understood that Christ would return to earth in person. They expected this because Jesus had clearly promised it. As his first advent was personal, so is the second coming of Christ to be personal.

I'm kind of on the fence as for the Rapture goes. But at this point I do believe there will be a Rapture before the anti-Christ takes power or just shortly after.

I believe there is not doubt that Christ is coming back and we all need to be alert and ready.



Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma

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But hasn't the anti-christ always had power? This is not the kingdom of god, this entire world is anti-christ in it's powers. The powers of this world did not come to power by the way of Christ, they all came to power through the path of death and destruction. It's the only power this earth has really known.

This is where I find myself with the biggest struggles with Christians. They wait for things to happen, and I see these things have already happened. The beasts have been roaming and going for quite some time now.

IE: You wait for the "new" religion that will rise up and fool many, and I see Christianity as a new religion that is created since the time of Jesus. It doesn't appear "new" to you and me, but it is new since the time of Jesus. It even is based off the "new" testament.

And I wonder how does this religion get it's hold before the return of Christ? And what of it leading into the dark ages and so on.

And we see other things that pop up and then all the Christians claim this is the anti-Christ religion. But they don't actually go anywhere. And really never had a chance. Seems to me these are just things that make people not see what their own religion did in the past, and so they look everywhere but their own religion for the anti-christ religion, even though their religion is a new religion in the name of Christ and fulfills all the prophecies.

People act as if the perfect world and such would have the church as ruler of all, but last time that happened we went into the dark ages.

I guess the difference is I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward, and others look at things from the creation of the church and afterward. It's the only explanation I can see for it.

The thing about the rapture that doesn't make sense to me is what about all the other people that have been persecuted in history, and just the past 2000 years alone. What makes someone today so much more special? Does being killed and tortured feel different these days than it did back then? Why the sudden change of heart if it can be predicted? Just doesn't make sense to me in that way.

It does make more sense on a personal and individual basis. Those who do not taste death are raptured right before they did or sometime before. Their physical body dies, but their consciousness and soul was not there to feel the agony and pain. Of course, to everyone else it still appears they were there, and so those who believe the person is the body and not soul assume they were there. When I see something bad happen, this is what I hope for in that person. As I know they aren't actually their physical bodies. Obviously impossible to prove. But this makes more sense to me based on what Jesus said, and also is in line with what I've learned. I can also see why it would be done, especially when you hear bad things with children.

Perhaps if there is a hell, it's you being replaced with the person you harmed, wouldn't that suck. I should sell that to a movie studio.

This is a good site to see why we won't be flying away.

www.abbaswatchman.com...

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ahimsa]

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ahimsa]

reply to post by badmedia

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badmedia:

I do not totally agree with your points about the anit-christ being here and Christ's kingdom is not.


But hasn't the anti-christ always had power? This is not the kingdom of god, this entire world is anti-christ in it's powers. The powers of this world did not come to power by the way of Christ, they all came to power through the path of death and destruction. It's the only power this earth has really known.

I do not see death and destruction as the only path on this earth. I also see a path that Christ left with his 12 disciples to help us find the path home.

This is where I find myself with the biggest struggles with Christians. They wait for things to happen, and I see these things have already happened. The beasts have been roaming and going for quite some time now.

I wait no only what Christ taught. Yes, I agree, there have always been wars and rumors of wars and so forth and so forth. Still doesn't change the fact of the Second Coming of Christ.

IE: You wait for the "new" religion that will rise up and fool many, and I see Christianity as a new religion that is created since the time of Jesus. It doesn't appear "new" to you and me, but it is new since the time of Jesus. It even is based off the "new" testament.

I wait for no "new" religion to rise up. Religion is a man made term, not on that has to do with being a "follower of Christ", totally different.

And I wonder how does this religion get it's hold before the return of Christ? And what of it leading into the dark ages and so on.

Christians will not get their hold before the return of Christ.

And we see other things that pop up and then all the Christians claim this is the anti-Christ religion. But they don't actually go anywhere. And really never had a chance. Seems to me these are just things that make people not see what their own religion did in the past, and so they look everywhere but their own religion for the anti-christ religion, even though their religion is a new religion in the name of Christ and fulfills all the prophecies.

I do not believe that Christianity will be the anti-Christ "religion" Your word, not mine. You do not need to attend a church to be a Christian.

People act as if the perfect world and such would have the church as ruler of all, but last time that happened we went into the dark ages.

No church rules me, only my savior Christ the Lord.

I guess the difference is I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward, and others look at things from the creation of the church and afterward. It's the only explanation I can see for it.

I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward.

The thing about the rapture that doesn't make sense to me is what about all the other people that have been persecuted in history, and just the past 2000 years alone. What makes someone today so much more special? Does being killed and tortured feel different these days than it did back then? Why the sudden change of heart if it can be predicted? Just doesn't make sense to me in that way.

The Rapture is to save the Christians from the time of tribulation. I am not so sure about this anymore. As I said, I was on the fence.

It does make more sense on a personal and individual basis. Those who do not taste death are raptured right before they did or sometime before. Their physical body dies, but their consciousness and soul was not there to feel the agony and pain. Of course, to everyone else it still appears they were there, and so those who believe the person is the body and not soul assume they were there. When I see something bad happen, this is what I hope for in that person. As I know they aren't actually their physical bodies. Obviously impossible to prove. But this makes more sense to me based on what Jesus said, and also is in line with what I've learned. I can also see why it would be done, especially when you hear bad things with children.

This makes sense to me.

Perhaps if there is a hell, it's you being replaced with the person you harmed, wouldn't that suck. I should sell that to a movie studio.

Yeah, you should sell that to a movie studio. It would suck!



Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by NatureBoy

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Ok, here's where it gets crazy - During this time everyone who has ever lived will live upon the earth, we now know the population of the earth is over six and a half billion people -this could in fact be ALL the people who ever lived currently living again.

The total number of people that have ever lived on earth would be closer to 100 billion. What you could consider though is adding all forms of life together? Anybody have an idea what the total number of lives living on Earth today might be? I'm talking all creatures, land and sea, most likely to be souled beings?

Can't say I agree with this theory, but for anyone to believe, we must have some accuracy. Peace.

Here is a link about pre-trib stuff. www.tribwatch.com...
I am not saying I am right, its just what I believe.

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