I Think the Rapture has happened

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
"the 144,000 of gods best friends will get pulled up to heaven"

Only 144,000? Isn't that gross.

Sorry...couldn't resist

Well not exactly. The 144,000 requires a minimum of 144,000 to attain, as it is also the number desired to repopulate humanity. It is not limited to 144,000 though.

reply to post by NatureBoy


I am responding to the thread title: I Think the Rapture has happened .

When I read your title, the first thing that came to my mind was II Thessalonians 2:1 and the confusion created then in regard to the Day of the Lord and our Gathering to Him. The Thessalonian Christians were led to believe that the Lord's Gathering of His Church had taken place and all that remained for them was pending judgement.

Of course we know that none of this was true and Paul had to set the record straight, reminding them of previous statements made in regard to the Lord's Gathering of His Church.

When I came into the faith in 1979, the Rapture was one hot expectation among the church. As the years have gone by, I have noticed that the church talks less and less about the Rapture, or, if you will, the Lord's gathering together of His church. I expect it will reach a point when the whole idea of the Lord's return to gather His church will become a mute subject, just as you will find less and less faith standing upon the earth. After all, Jesus himself asked, in regard to His return, if He would find any faith on the earth? [Luke 18:8]

That is very thought provoking.

reply to post by Kratos1220

The topic of this thread is a pre-tribulation rapture

NO! Read my op again, i give the quote from the bible which says it happens MID TRIB! Just like everyone describes it in the bible, rev doesn't happen until the end!

sorry, it just makes me so angry when people deny a proposition based on a faulty comprehension of the issue.

The trib started a few years ago, as the bible states no one knew not even the nost holy but as events unfold we slowly become aware -or wake up, know anyone obsessed by 'waking up' at the moment? OH EVERYONE! Yes, we're all starting to see whats going on, who doesn't know the end is coming? check the news, everyone knows on some level, only slowly are we starting to see what it means -as again, the bible says.

The things which must be done are being done, temple mount will hold a jewish temple by 2012, world economy will be fallen and replaced with a single currency by 2012, etc, etc. The rapture has happened, just like the bible said it would.

reply to post by NatureBoy

The trib started a few years ago, as the bible states no one knew not even the nost holy but as events unfold we slowly become aware -or wake up, know anyone obsessed by 'waking up' at the moment? OH EVERYONE! Yes, we're all starting to see whats going on, who doesn't know the end is coming? check the news, everyone knows on some level, only slowly are we starting to see what it means -as again, the bible says.

You may not know how right you are! The actual Trib most likely started over a century ago. Now doesn't that tweek your knickers!!

It started so long ago that the thief died of old age! We are at the end of Armageddon/Great Tribulation. And you showed so well how this is so very obvious! Everyone was looking for signs that their leaders would say; "Okay, this is it, folks!" That they missed the actual signs that have been right in front of their eyes for more than a century.

The whole 7 year thing is Christian propaganda. It was actually much longer because God knew we were really dim and needed a lot of time to actually see it, but no one did!

The good news! We are not in charge, and hence, have no say as to how this transpires, regardless how we have been brainwashed to believe. This may be a natural clean-up that needed to take place with the earth and its peoples - like the earth changes that are going on (not the alleged global warming). A natural "spiritual" selection?

reply to post by asmeone2
No G-Ds ppl have not been caught up yet!
And just to let you know the term Rapture isn't in the Holy Scriptures at all!
It is mentioned as a Harvest or being caught up.
We are all sinners, and if anyone says that they are without sin, than the truth of the L-rd is not in them.
And there are a few of us Messianics out there in the world today that do follow G-Ds commandments ( all 613 laws and ordinances) keep all 7 Biblical Feast and keep the true Sabbath Day, and keep true day,which is Saturday not on Sunday as ppl think.
Read the book Revelations there are a lot of events that happen before the Harvest takes place.
Read Matthew 24, Isaiah 24:1-5, Matthew 5, and by all means read the book Daniel and the book Joel.
There are a lot of events that take place before the Harvest, plus the son of Prediction has not been revealed yet. For it is written in Holy Scripture no one knows what hour, what day, or what year the end will be, not even the Angels in Heaven, the F-ther is the only one that knows when the hour will be.
And just so you know there is not going to be a new world order, this is a lie, for Scripture doesn't even mention this, and it isn't the Roman Catholic Church either that is the end time Beast, for it is a person/s that does not believe in the F-ther or the Son. And UFO's are also not involved for this too is a lie. The Bible tells us to know believe in false prophets for there are many out there. And G-Ds Saints will not be Harvested right away for they will face the Tribulation, please read Revelations it is in there. Repent and follow G-Ds Commandments, start keeping his 7 Biblical Feasts and keep his Sabbath on the true day Saturday!!!!!
I will say this that a crescent moon and a star are involved!
And just to let you know the first Resurrection occurred when Yeshua ( you know him as Jesus, however this is his Aramaic name)Christ was here the first time.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by NatureBoy

 

I am responding to the thread title: I Think the Rapture has happened .

When I read your title, the first thing that came to my mind was II Thessalonians 2:1 and the confusion created then in regard to the Day of the Lord and our Gathering to Him. The Thessalonian Christians were led to believe that the Lord's Gathering of His Church had taken place and all that remained for them was pending judgement.

Of course we know that none of this was true and Paul had to set the record straight, reminding them of previous statements made in regard to the Lord's Gathering of His Church.

When I came into the faith in 1979, the Rapture was one hot expectation among the church. As the years have gone by, I have noticed that the church talks less and less about the Rapture, or, if you will, the Lord's gathering together of His church. I expect it will reach a point when the whole idea of the Lord's return to gather His church will become a mute subject, just as you will find less and less faith standing upon the earth. After all, Jesus himself asked, in regard to His return, if He would find any faith on the earth? [Luke 18:8]

That is very thought provoking.

The 144,000 are 12, 000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel and they are first fruits. Please read the books Exodus, Leviticus, and Deutoronomy for they will tell you what the first fruits are, for they are male?
Rapture is a term that was created in the 1500's by an English Evangelist Preasher. The term is not mentioned in the entire Holy Scriptures.
It is called being caught up or the Harvest of the L-rds.
And do not trouble yourself, for it has not happened yet, for the son of Prediction has not been revealed yet.
And G-D is in Control here and we are not. Put your full trust in the L-rd and believe in Yeshua the Messiah. And Repent of your sins and turn away from what you will doing and trust the L-rd Completely.

reply to post by SueHam2


The entire Greco-Roman Empire duped everyone in 325 AD/CE when they changed the true Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, the counsil for the Universal Roman Catholic Church convened in Asia Minor.
This is why all Christians are following a false Sabbath they changed it in honor of their Sun god which is why everyone has been lied to for the past 2,000 years. This is also why everyone are celebrating pagan holidays such as Christ Mass, which is not the birth of Yeshua at all. For Yeshua was born in Sept during the Feast of Sukkot.
For further proof read Jeremiah 10:2-5.
Easter is also pagan for Yeshua was crucified on the Passover which is on th 1th of Nisan and was also on a Wednesday over 2,000 years ago.
And also Valentines Day and Halloween is also pagan.
And no Paul was not evil, even the L-rd choice Sha'al (Paul) to bring the word of the L-rd to the Gentiles. Not one time did any of the Apostles change G-Ds Law, Commandments, or his Sabbath.
You can thank the Greco-Roman Empire for this one.
And no G-D is not an evil G-D!
PPL have been refusing to follow G-Ds laws, commandments, and ordinances, and true Sabbath Day please read Isaiah 24:1-5 as you will see this.
G-D created all human-kind and all the inhabitants of the earth are his.
We all should be praising and Honoring G-D and thanking him for everything that we have at all times.
I ask you to stop believing everything that you are reading, for the Apostles are the good guys, G-D is also our all Creator and he is a good G-D, and Yeshua the Messiah is also good.
Here is a website that will help you www.therefinersfire.org...

I had to make a correction our L-rd Yeshua was crucified on the 14th of Nisan which was on a Wednesday over 2,000 years ago.
It was also the Greco-Roman Church that decided what book, Gospels and Episles that would be put into our current bible.
And just to let you know they left out over 120 + books from our current bible.
I advise anyone to google search the book of Enoch, the Book of Giants, The Gospel of Thomas Infancy of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of Nicodemus, and the Acts of Pilate. And yes Pontius Pilate was a Jew.

The Rapture is not even in the Holy Scriptures anywhere, the word was created in the 1500's by an English Evangelist preacher.
The 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, and they are first fruits and they are males. To get information on first fruits, please read the books Exodus and Leviticus in the Old Tesament.
And it would be a catching up or the L-rds Harvest.
And it has not happened yet, for Yeshua (Jesus) will come on a Cloud with lightening that flashes from the East to the West and all will see.
We are to be ever watchful for we are told we don't know what hour, what day, or what hour he is coming, for he will come like a thief in the night.
I suggest you read the books Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelations for most of the future prophesies are in these books.
Also read Matthew 24 and also Matthew 5:17-20, for not many ppl are not keeping G-Ds commandments, 7 Biblical Feasts, or true Sabbath Day which is Saturday.

I dont believe in a rapture....mabey every so often there is a natural order that changes the vibrations of the Earth and its species....but why would God intervene or set a time limit on a creation that is here to learn things.

Thee never gives up...but waits. Thee is patient and allows us to work through this world and our growth.

Religious folds want to believe the world is going to get a fix of its wrongs....but there are no 'mistakes' made by the infinite creator. We are not fallen, we dont need saved....but we are to seek how we can be divine as a unit....God is waiting on us, not us waiting of God. God makes a way for all, the Universe helps God make a way for all through recycling....recycling is how everything in the material world works.

People need to step up and stop waiting on God to save the day....God expects us to figure it out. There is no golden ticket for a certain day....when people die, they immediately begin to experience the spiritual realms, relearning and often, being then reborn to learn or to help others.

Just adding thoughts, since others add their thoughts, surely mine are just as welcome, if not, oh well

We are not fallen....we are right where we are to be, we are evolving spiritual beings...all of us hold the essence of Thee, but usually the environment of the physical world darkens souls, and they then become victim to material things, like drugs, or primal impulses, desires for power, desiring greed....these arent of satan, they are the temptations to the body complex that are of the physical environment. It is proven through psychology that the external environment helps shape people and their view of things, their view of themselves ect....

One either listens to their primal voice of the body complex or they listen to their spiritual voice of the spirit complex...or its possible to listen to both, and try to balance both.


LV

reply to post by SueHam2


Rather than tell me to read sections of the bible how about you read my posts? I've clearly read the bible, hehe in fact i read a few different bibles and i listen to a lot of Torah Talk from Israel National Radio so i'm well aware of what you say.

I would tell YOU to look back at the bible, find the bits of Rev, Lev, etc which have been posted to confirm what i say is true. Recently thanks to matrixprofit i've rechecked my sources and indeed the bible does suggest that that in fact the tribulation started over a thousand years ago, it is due to end on 2012 and we sinners who have now been punished will be cleared from the world - you need to go back to bibles before they were obscured, a great lie has been placed over the words of god but yet god in his glory has kept the truth open and clear for those who seek it without pride, ego or evil in their hearts.

It's a little unclear what happens next, either god clears the earth of evil (us) and his 144,000 who are enjoying heaven come down and take it OR the games over and earth is turned off, they all live in heaven and we never think again.

It's hard to accept but it's the biblical truth, sorry.

reply to post by NatureBoy

NatureBoy:

I kind of don't see things the same way you do. I'm not saying you are wrong, Lord knows there are better people than me to get spiritual insight from the Scriptures.

I think we are living between two advents of Christ into this world. As first he appeared incarnate to reveal the way of salvation and to make atonement for sin. I believe that he will come again at some future time in great power and glory to raise the dead, judge the world, and destroy the earth. That Christ will come again to the world is common belief of Christians of all schools of thought.

Those who believe the NT have abundant proof that Jesus will surely come again. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3) "As the lightning cometh out of east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt:24-27) "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven" (Thess.4:16) "Our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28)

Very many other texts might be cited in proof of the fact of a future advent of Christ into this world. That advent is represented in the Scriptures as necessary to the accomplishment of other important events, especially the resurrection, the judgment, and the end of the world.

Though the fact of the Lord's coming is generally held be Christians, yet all do not allow a future personal coming of Christ. The Scriptures also clearly teach a second, personal, visible coming of Christ which is yet future.

Remember as the disciples say their ascending Lord rise higher and higher until a cloud finally blocked him from their view, two angels said to them, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts1:11)

"Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Matt. 24:30) "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him" (Rev. 1:17)

There can be no doubt that the apostles understood that Christ would return to earth in person. They expected this because Jesus had clearly promised it. As his first advent was personal, so is the second coming of Christ to be personal.

I'm kind of on the fence as for the Rapture goes. But at this point I do believe there will be a Rapture before the anti-Christ takes power or just shortly after.

I believe there is not doubt that Christ is coming back and we all need to be alert and ready.



Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma


But hasn't the anti-christ always had power? This is not the kingdom of god, this entire world is anti-christ in it's powers. The powers of this world did not come to power by the way of Christ, they all came to power through the path of death and destruction. It's the only power this earth has really known.

This is where I find myself with the biggest struggles with Christians. They wait for things to happen, and I see these things have already happened. The beasts have been roaming and going for quite some time now.

IE: You wait for the "new" religion that will rise up and fool many, and I see Christianity as a new religion that is created since the time of Jesus. It doesn't appear "new" to you and me, but it is new since the time of Jesus. It even is based off the "new" testament.

And I wonder how does this religion get it's hold before the return of Christ? And what of it leading into the dark ages and so on.

And we see other things that pop up and then all the Christians claim this is the anti-Christ religion. But they don't actually go anywhere. And really never had a chance. Seems to me these are just things that make people not see what their own religion did in the past, and so they look everywhere but their own religion for the anti-christ religion, even though their religion is a new religion in the name of Christ and fulfills all the prophecies.

People act as if the perfect world and such would have the church as ruler of all, but last time that happened we went into the dark ages.

I guess the difference is I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward, and others look at things from the creation of the church and afterward. It's the only explanation I can see for it.

The thing about the rapture that doesn't make sense to me is what about all the other people that have been persecuted in history, and just the past 2000 years alone. What makes someone today so much more special? Does being killed and tortured feel different these days than it did back then? Why the sudden change of heart if it can be predicted? Just doesn't make sense to me in that way.

It does make more sense on a personal and individual basis. Those who do not taste death are raptured right before they did or sometime before. Their physical body dies, but their consciousness and soul was not there to feel the agony and pain. Of course, to everyone else it still appears they were there, and so those who believe the person is the body and not soul assume they were there. When I see something bad happen, this is what I hope for in that person. As I know they aren't actually their physical bodies. Obviously impossible to prove. But this makes more sense to me based on what Jesus said, and also is in line with what I've learned. I can also see why it would be done, especially when you hear bad things with children.

Perhaps if there is a hell, it's you being replaced with the person you harmed, wouldn't that suck. I should sell that to a movie studio.

This is a good site to see why we won't be flying away.

www.abbaswatchman.com...

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ahimsa]

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ahimsa]

reply to post by badmedia


badmedia:

I do not totally agree with your points about the anit-christ being here and Christ's kingdom is not.


But hasn't the anti-christ always had power? This is not the kingdom of god, this entire world is anti-christ in it's powers. The powers of this world did not come to power by the way of Christ, they all came to power through the path of death and destruction. It's the only power this earth has really known.

I do not see death and destruction as the only path on this earth. I also see a path that Christ left with his 12 disciples to help us find the path home.

This is where I find myself with the biggest struggles with Christians. They wait for things to happen, and I see these things have already happened. The beasts have been roaming and going for quite some time now.

I wait no only what Christ taught. Yes, I agree, there have always been wars and rumors of wars and so forth and so forth. Still doesn't change the fact of the Second Coming of Christ.

IE: You wait for the "new" religion that will rise up and fool many, and I see Christianity as a new religion that is created since the time of Jesus. It doesn't appear "new" to you and me, but it is new since the time of Jesus. It even is based off the "new" testament.

I wait for no "new" religion to rise up. Religion is a man made term, not on that has to do with being a "follower of Christ", totally different.

And I wonder how does this religion get it's hold before the return of Christ? And what of it leading into the dark ages and so on.

Christians will not get their hold before the return of Christ.

And we see other things that pop up and then all the Christians claim this is the anti-Christ religion. But they don't actually go anywhere. And really never had a chance. Seems to me these are just things that make people not see what their own religion did in the past, and so they look everywhere but their own religion for the anti-christ religion, even though their religion is a new religion in the name of Christ and fulfills all the prophecies.

I do not believe that Christianity will be the anti-Christ "religion" Your word, not mine. You do not need to attend a church to be a Christian.

People act as if the perfect world and such would have the church as ruler of all, but last time that happened we went into the dark ages.

No church rules me, only my savior Christ the Lord.

I guess the difference is I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward, and others look at things from the creation of the church and afterward. It's the only explanation I can see for it.

I look at things from the time of Jesus and afterward.

The thing about the rapture that doesn't make sense to me is what about all the other people that have been persecuted in history, and just the past 2000 years alone. What makes someone today so much more special? Does being killed and tortured feel different these days than it did back then? Why the sudden change of heart if it can be predicted? Just doesn't make sense to me in that way.

The Rapture is to save the Christians from the time of tribulation. I am not so sure about this anymore. As I said, I was on the fence.

It does make more sense on a personal and individual basis. Those who do not taste death are raptured right before they did or sometime before. Their physical body dies, but their consciousness and soul was not there to feel the agony and pain. Of course, to everyone else it still appears they were there, and so those who believe the person is the body and not soul assume they were there. When I see something bad happen, this is what I hope for in that person. As I know they aren't actually their physical bodies. Obviously impossible to prove. But this makes more sense to me based on what Jesus said, and also is in line with what I've learned. I can also see why it would be done, especially when you hear bad things with children.

This makes sense to me.

Perhaps if there is a hell, it's you being replaced with the person you harmed, wouldn't that suck. I should sell that to a movie studio.

Yeah, you should sell that to a movie studio. It would suck!



Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by NatureBoy

Ok, here's where it gets crazy - During this time everyone who has ever lived will live upon the earth, we now know the population of the earth is over six and a half billion people -this could in fact be ALL the people who ever lived currently living again.

The total number of people that have ever lived on earth would be closer to 100 billion. What you could consider though is adding all forms of life together? Anybody have an idea what the total number of lives living on Earth today might be? I'm talking all creatures, land and sea, most likely to be souled beings?

Can't say I agree with this theory, but for anyone to believe, we must have some accuracy. Peace.

I have to agree with badmedia. I personally do not believe in a pre-trib rapture. I do not see what makes us so special that we do not have to suffer or be persecuted for what we believe. Jesus suffered and was persecuted, people have suffered and still suffer and are persecuted to this day for spreading Gods word. I am looking for a good church to attand but can't seem to find one, the last one I left the pastor said we didn't have to worry about the end times/tribulation because we would all be taken up. I just don't see it that way. Mark 13:9-12 says we will be handed over to local councils , governors, kings and we will be brought to trial to be a witness, to spread the gospel. .....he who stands firm to the end will be saved. - If everyone is taken up, who will be left to witness? Also, there will be false phrophets and false Christs and even the believers will be decieved. Mark13:21-22 "At that time if anyone says to you, look, here is the christ or look, there he is do not believe it. For false christs and false phrophets will appear and preform signs and miracles to decieve the elect-if that were possible" Or, in our days CNN will report Jesus is here look, on TV right now!
AFTER the distress of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give light, stars will fall from the sky, the heavenly bodies will be shaken and then Son of Man(Jesus) will come. Its nice and comforting to think that we will be raptured before the hard times come, makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside dosen't it we wont have to suffer or be persecuted because we will be taken up. Lets just live our lives normall and wait for God to come. Why, why does God think I am so special and so good and so sin free that I can be raptured(because I am NOT special and not as good as I could be and surley NOT NOT NOT sin free) and only the bad people(those who don't believe) suffer...Whats the point of that....who will witness Gods word if all the believers are taken up then whats the point of the tribulation? Don't you think that someone who believes and loves with all thier heart and soul and mind during times when people just give up and give in id the ultimate witness? I feel that if we can stand firm during hard times and witness and be an example of Christ, it will save so many more people from eternal hell. And thats the point of our lives right?
anyway, my 2 cents.

[edit on 3/3/2009 by concerned190]

Here is a link about pre-trib stuff. www.tribwatch.com...
I am not saying I am right, its just what I believe.

in a confusing world we live in , The Rapture has signs to it. But when
will this great event happen?
We will not know , just hope and pray we get to see Jesus! Because even
Jesus will not tell anyone until our Father tells him.
I hope I got that right