I spend most of my time in the company of sinners and am a sinner myself so i wasn't near anyone that got raptured but i'm sure it happened.

The bible tells us that the Rapture will happen around the time of tribulation, the different sects can't agree on a timeline but it does seem to suggest that during a seven year period of 'tribulation' the 144,000 of gods best friends will get pulled up to heaven and then chaos will smash everything for a bit and then someone (unclear who) will live on the earth for a thousand years before god lets the beast smash them up again.

Ok, here's where it gets crazy - During this time everyone who has ever lived will live upon the earth, we now know the population of the earth is over six and a half billion people -this could in fact be ALL the people who ever lived currently living again.

number two, I haven't seen a single person who follows the gods rule properly and EVERYONE is turning out to be more and more of a criminal every day; Bush in warcrimes trials, Maddoff with his ponzi, The House of Lords taking bribes to make laws and the list goes on...

It makes me think maybe god took his 144,000 and we're the sinners that are left!

Now during the tribulation certain things will happen,

1. The nations of the world must unify their currency onto a universal standard.
2. There will be peace in Israel (Ezekiel 38).
3. There will be a one-world government, to correspond to the 7th beast of Revelation, prior to the Antichrist's 8th beast government.
4. The Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt in its original place.
5. Observance of Old Testament commandments concerning animal sacrifices must be reinstated.
6. There will be a great falling away and the Antichrist will be revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2

Assuming when the bible says "time, times, and half a time" it is interpreted to mean 3.5 years. That is, half way through the seven years of the tribulation it could make sense that all these things will have happened within the next three years or less.

The 'credit crunch' will cause one and three to happen, Israel and America will destroy everyone else in the area and peace will fall, they'll build on temple mount, then like one of the torah stories suggests the jewish people will all gather goats and sheep and head to the new temple to reinstate the old ways and midway into his term we'll notice obama's birth cert lists his father as satan himself.

This is supposed to happen after an 'age' of Christs kingdom starting- they are talking of course about the 'Age of Aquarius' which just happens to be, according to all accounts, 2012.

So, no real Christians left + end of Christs Age + everything done by 2012 = THE RAPTURE HAS HAPPENED!

It seems we are the sinners, so sin well my friends.

Originally posted by NatureBoy


So, no real Christians left + end of Christs Age + everything done by 2012 = THE RAPTURE HAS HAPPENED!

It seems we are the sinners, so sin well my friends.

The cynic in me wonders, were there ever any "Real Christians" to begin with?

The rapture has not happened. You need to restudy the events.......
Some events have happened....the dry bones have been revived....
WE are all sinners....yes. All need Christs love and mercy. He came to die for you and me. Read John......especially john 3:16.
If it had happened we would know I mean KNOW who the antichrist is...was, etc. We dont!
All is not lost.......find a christian...if they are real they are loving, patient and kind. They will show you more.
Love and peace

Why would anyone care?

144K getting in to heaven? Its ridiculous.

The whole of revelations was a drug induced rant.

NatureBoy, if the Rapture had happened I and many other members of the ATS family would be missing. It would soon be very noticeable.

Those of us who are Christians are sinners. All people sin in one way or another every day.

Fortunately, we are promised that if we believe in God and accept Him as our Savior we will be united with him when our bodies die.

Jesus forgives our sins.

I understand those wanting to believe in a rapture. There just is not conclusive evidence of it being the case, otherwise, more Christian religions would be promoting it.

Here is what I "sense":

If you go to different time-lines you will find that all of the signs in Matthew have gone up alarmingly in the last century or more. This includes: earthquakes and other disasters, including the love amongst man will cool off to the point of being glacial.

It fits with my prediction that we have been in Armageddon for more than a century and that it is taking on a different meaning than we have been taught.

Only...no one can "see" the signs, because everyone is waiting for; "The Rapture," The Great Trib, etc. The Great Tribulation is actually the action behind an occurrence or situation called - Armageddon and has been going on for all this time. It explains so many things that are taking place. And that the thief in the night would be exactly that, something that no one has caught onto.

I am really wondering if Armageddon is actually a natural cleansing process that changes and shifts the world, and its people. NOT...a war of the Gods here on earth! Often looking at a word in a different light can alter the whole meaning.

The OP is on the right track IMO, in sensing that ALL has already been going on, and most don't see it. But if all saw it, it wouldn't be a thief, now would it?


[edit on 27-1-2009 by MatrixProphet]

the 144k was a way for Paul to recruit new Christians, without him Xianity would have died off.
He was a clever Roman with a marketing degree equivalent who knew how to create the first Loyalty Program:
Pray and be good enough and earn yourself enough points to strive for heaven entry...

For Christians I suggest you listen to Jesus' words not Pauls, JC would have told you about the 144 before he got beamed up........dont you think its kind of an important point to have forgotten to mention when you were around ?

Even the other apostles couldn't stand Paul, he was annoying!!!! He got chased out of Ephasus, but he knew how to convert people by playing on their fears which is always the best way to recruit anyone, and the number one fear that worked was afterlife, and so he invented the 144K

For Paul the end of the world was the fall of the Roman empire at Megiddo in Israel, Armegidon, refers literally to a final Roman battle on the Megiddo plane, not to the end of the world and the planet in our current existence.

Stop paying attention to what he said. Remember my fearful little one, JC would have told you the end was coming and he only want 144K of you around.




[edit on 27-1-2009 by zazzafrazz]

[edit on 27-1-2009 by zazzafrazz]

[edit on 27-1-2009 by zazzafrazz]

I humbly suggest you read it again.-----Yourself and not by interpretation of various factions. Most cant even agree on pre trib, mid trib, pre wrath pan trib, or post trib, and the whole "rapture" thing wasn't even invented until the 1800's, there is no word "rapture" anywhere in the bible.
All are sinners and all fall short, so the good book says, so where are the other 139000 Jesus's hiding?

How about some notable "rapture" Predictions?

1792 - Shakers calculated this date.
1844 - William Miller predicted Christ would return between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844, then revised his prediction, claiming to have miscalculated Scripture, to October 22, 1844. Miller's theology gave rise to the Advent movement.
1977 - William M. Branham predicted that the Rapture would take place in 1977.
1981 - Chuck Smith undogmatically predicted that Jesus would likely return by 1981.
1988 - Publication of 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988, by Edgar C. Whisenant.
1989 - Publication of The final shout: Rapture report 1989, by Edgar Whisenant. More predictions by this author appeared for 1992, 1995, and other years.
1992 - Korean group "Mission for the Coming Days" predicted October 28, 1992 as the date for the rapture.
1993 - Seven years before the year 2000. The rapture would have to start to allow for seven years of the Tribulation before the Return in 2000. Multiple predictions.
1994 - Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles predicted June 9, 1994. Radio evangelist Harold Camping predicted September 27, 1994.
2011 - Harold Camping's revised prediction has May 21, 2011 as the date of the rapture.
2060 - Sir Isaac Newton undogmatically proposed, based upon his calculations using figures from the book of Daniel, that the rapture could happen no earlier than 2060.

Though I would never imply insult to anyone's belief system, I figure if someone decides to follow a written doctrine that is finished (I.E. all in the canon without editorials and additions) then you have to follow exactly what is written, and not attempt to interpret according to personal belief or century you reside in.

Just my Dos Pesos.

You obviously have never even read the bible. He lived within the apostolic 12's lifetime.
Paul was the founder of Gentile Christianity
Peter was the head of Jews who believed in Christ in Jerusalem.
They had fundamental differences of opinion regarding who could become a Christian.
They not only met each other, Paul brought them tithes from Asia minor from the church he was setting up there. The rest of the Jerusalem church didn't know of him.
He stayed 15 days, he argued over whether Gentiles could be Xians with Peter and James.


"However he did speak to the jman, this from wiki,"

Yeh I went to Damascus 3 years ago, would you believe me if I told you I saw him just so I could become a power player?

If you want to know what Jesus said, read the gospel of St Thomas, its in Aramaic and the oldest writen words of Jesus, no amendments done at Nicea, no apostolic interpretations about how Jesus felt, just his words quoted.


"You can't deny the truth of the bible and expect to get taken in the Rapture, either Paul was right and as it says..."

I can deny what I want, God gave me choice.
I choose freedom over fear. Fear only creates hatred and arguements like ours amoungst people.


By the way, read the parable of the sons whos father gave them money to see what they would do with it...so is life, The Creator gives us everything, not to bury away in fear but live and make good things out if.

Not going to this thread anymore, I realised along time ago people cannot be taken from the path of fear, only they themselves can find the narrow gate of freedom to cross through
Good luck with the end, Ill see you down below wont I?
Now I'm being mean, Good luck and I hope you do find a life of less angst about Paul. He's not worth it.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by NatureBoy


So, no real Christians left + end of Christs Age + everything done by 2012 = THE RAPTURE HAS HAPPENED!

It seems we are the sinners, so sin well my friends.

The cynic in me wonders, were there ever any "Real Christians" to begin with?

Considering the origins of Christianity, I would have to say "yes." lol

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
It fits with my prediction that we have been in Armageddon for more than a century and that it is taking on a different meaning than we have been taught.

Absolutely.. want to see where just *that* is said? Came across it today and was astounded that what I sensed as well was in fact documented!

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws : and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Edited to add: What I mean to say is that I think our sense of time has been completely screwed with...

Not in unnatural ways, but take for instance the following prophecy that is said to be about Jesus:

Zechariah 9: 9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Christians teach that this is a prophecy fulfilled by Jesus and apparently, it matches up with the numbers of Daniel... yet this MUST be some illusion of the numbers.. we must be misunderstanding the numbers in some way because the prophecy has not been fulfilled... it can appear to be filled by illusion, but if we look closely it HAS not!

Jerusalem was devoured by the Romans after this! The things that supposedly were to happen after this did not happen. Remember.. G.d said that He speaks to His prophets in visions.. so the writer of Matthew misunderstood this and took it to be a literal event when it was merely a depiction and then the writer of Matthew matched it up with the numbers (which he and WE are misunderstanding) of the prophet Daniel.

It is as was written... the foundations of the earth are out of course... we see the backside of G.d.. things aren't right.. no need to fear though sheep! It is being set straight even now!


[edit on 27-1-2009 by justamomma]