I Think the Rapture has happened

justamomma

Hi!!!!

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws : and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Ah! Very good!! Yes, Paul was prophesied. You have my take on him actually being the False Prophet of Revelation? Fits!!

reply to post by gotrox


I would tend to agree with this mostly, justamomma and matrixprophet also make excellent points.

Whether or not the rapture has happened or will happen at all, I like to be prepared for whatever is coming our way, I dont have my beliefs set in stone, hell I dont even agree with what I thought last year.

The rapture to me seems to have been created by fearful people in hopes to avoid things they did not want to endure, an easy way out so to speak.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Hey, now there is something I havent given much thought to!!

Good point MP, good " eye " justamomma.

I edited to clarify.. maybe one of you is smart enough to figure out the numbers of Daniel. He keeps showing me these things, but again, the LORD NEVER uses one person to piece together the puzzle. So maybe someone else can see what I am talking about because I know w/out a doubt we are looking at the numbers given by Daniel wrong... I just can't see how. Maybe He will show one of you. Maybe this will be the proof someone needs that they are indeed being spoken to by their Father.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by justamomma]

So we scrap paul from the bible? doesn't that ruin most doctrin?

Originally posted by NatureBoy


The bible tells us........ that during a seven year period of 'tribulation' the 144,000 of gods best friends will get pulled up to heaven

That's Ok cause I never had a chance anyway...the 144,000 were MALES so the Bible says

reply to post by NatureBoy

So we scrap paul from the bible? doesn't that ruin most doctrin?

Yes! Isn't that interesting? We can get back to what Jesus supposedly said, and the prophets before him.


justamomma


Let me think on that tomorrow. Good points and good question!

Right on, MatrixProphet and justamomma. I have never been convinced of any sort of "rapture" event, at least in terms of how it is generally thought of.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
The OP is on the right track IMO, in sensing that ALL has already been going on, and most don't see it. But if all saw it, it wouldn't be a thief, now would it?

Exactly. And I don't mean this to be offensive, but I've always felt like the strict church-going, interpret-as-your-told folks seem to be looking one way, while not seeing what's going on behind them (in regards to looking for a concrete event or such to fulfill scripture).

[edit on 2009/1/27 by evilod]

Originally posted by MyXlog
the 144,000 were MALES so the Bible says

The messiah, Son of man, and the Begotten Son was taught to be one man named Jesus when the Tanakh (mostly known as the Old testament.. though I think this is a deceptive name) clearly states that it is not one man (and though He calls the chosen His Son.. it is more than, as I stated, one man and obviously involves women.. I am one). Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; Exodus 4:22,23; Hosea 1:11; and Ezek.16

We were taught that the virgin birth was literal when G.d states that He will not work outside the Laws of nature or otherwise.. Jeremiah 33: 25.

We were taught that Jesus fulfilled the law for the world when Ezekiel 18: 20-18 and many of the Psalms (practically all of 119) says otherwise.

Question is.. whose version of the prophecies are we accepting? man's or G.d's?



[edit on 27-1-2009 by justamomma]

The bible also states that in the end time, it would be hard to find even one who follows his ways to the end . I can not remember which book.

So it is to be expected that bad seems to prevail now.

You guys are all silly!

Nothing happens unless you make it happen. 144 has do more with your connection to others. You can be religious and say that 144 are chosen ones, or ones of light. So what?

144 has more to do with YOU, than you think.

Originally posted by amatrine
The bible also states that in the end time, it would be hard to find even one who follows his ways to the end . I can not remember which book.

So it is to be expected that bad seems to prevail now.

I am not sure I have seen this. It could be that this is in the NT, no?

It also could be that I am a self admitted optimist and here is what I see in the prophecies that G.d has spoken:

Daniel 12:
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Daniel 11:
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many..

(look up that word exploit.. it gives much comfort and hope, no?)

Daniel 7:
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

(note.. the christians in the Tanakh are shown in vision as the Chaldeans.. the Saints are NOT the Christians.. they are those who have walked in the shoes of all the afflicted ways of life and so their judgement will not be biased as the christian judgements have been.. the Saints will judge justly and with much mercy for those whose hearts were not set against G.d.. their hearts are just lost, and understandably so )

There are MANY more hopeful verses like this! Read Isaiah! Fear the LORD.. but only fear Him as one would fear a good father in whom a child has rebelled to the point of working mischief against their own selves! His chastisements are good and they lead us to the path of true life!





[edit on 27-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
You guys are all silly!

Nothing happens unless you make it happen. 144 has do more with your connection to others. You can be religious and say that 144 are chosen ones, or ones of light. So what?

144 has more to do with YOU, than you think.

Where is the 144 thousand talked about.. is that a NT thing?

Natureboy - the main event hasn't happened, but some things have happened. The whole idea of being "caught up" to be with the Lord revolves heavily around the concepts of a Jewish Wedding and the people invited to attend, the order of events as they unfold and the unveiling of mysteries. Many, many people are invited but few are chosen to participate.

This wedding has a Bride, a Bridegroom, attendants to the Bride and attendants of the Bridegroom, and then there are the invited guests. Most everyone will disagree with what I'm about to say, but there is only one Bridegroom, who is King, therefore there is only one Bride, who will be his Queen.

First thing that needs addressed is the invited guests. Every single person has an invite but there is going to be a whole lot of them, that will get tossed out quickly. Why? Jesus says it's because of their wedding garments. The correct wedding garment will be a washed robe (found in the Book of Daniel) or fine linen (found in Revelations). See, John the Baptist completely understood the "Wedding" to come - and even declared himself to be the "friend" of the Bridegroom. He understood the whole process of how the people needed to be washed and the slate wiped clean, so people could attend this wedding.

Secondly we need to address those people selected to attend. A person will know if they have been chosen by Jesus because they will undergo a second baptism, the one John spoke about that came after him and this is the one given by Christ himself. These people are the elect. It's impossible for them to be deceived. They "know" him and he "knows" them and they will never follow another because they know his voice and they are all beloved followers. They are rare but they have all been given a gift of living water, which is of His Holy Spirit and they are sealed and set aside in the new blood covenant. These people have the utmost compassion for people, but at the same time such a zeal for God, that they have been given authority, that whatever they bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever they loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. But you cannot tell who is born of Spirit and who is not, so it is a wise thing to always engage in friendly behavior - for you never know, when you could be entertaining angels and unaware of it.

There are two stages to the wedding process - the betrothal (which is ongoing now) and this culminates in Christ returning for his Bride (things to come and what many refer to as the rapture).

Betrothal - The Father picks the Bride and a price is paid to her Father and this has already been paid to any potential Bride, with the Lord's blood. Then the potential Bride gives her consent to the betrothal - she accepts that the kingdom is at hand and repents. The Bridegroom then gives gifts; which is the gift of living water, that is of His Holy Spirit. The Bride is then sanctified - you are set apart and made special because the Father approves. Then a cup of wine representing the new covenant is drunk by the Bridegroom and the Bride. The Bridgroom then leaves to go prepare a place to take his Bride, which is a new room at his Father's house. A dowry is then paid by the Father of the Bride, and a ring is given or better yet, eternal life. Those who don't have the gift of living water are perishing and will perish, only to be raised at the judgement, for not doing their homework and believing His message.

Then when the Father determines the room is ready he will tell his Son, to go get his Bride. He will return with a trumpet call and there will be two witnesses; Moses and Elijah and that is why they were at the transfiguration. The entire wedding party will be transfigured and translated to the Heavenly Feast and Consummation of the marriage.

There has been a delay though and the problem is with the Bride. She's been in a deep sleep and though she has been aroused, the Spirit is still perfecting and purifying her. This is why the Lord urges people over and over again, to watch, and stay awake and he warns how he comes like a thief in the night. How many of you have ever pulled an all-nighter for God? Jesus said he could come at the second or third watch of the night. Peter, James and John couldn't stay awake, for three measly hours in the Garden, right before Jesus was arressted. Had they stayed awake, what might have they seen? Felt? Smelled? Or even heard? Maybe that cup Jesus wants to pass holds his sweat and blood and it has your name on it. Imagine that. The mystical cup known as the "Holy Grail" waiting for you.

Anyone thirsty?







[edit on 28-1-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]

Justamoma, I will present the numbers for you that give a biblically chronological timeline of events. Just not tonight.

One thing I wanted to clear up for the Christians as well as non-believers is the concept of the rapture. It is not the religiously taught "get out of jail free card" that tradition says it is.

One has to pass "through the veil", which is death, in order to be instantly changed. The corruption putting on incorruption is something that happens after one dies. The corrupted flesh is "put off" and all that's left is the incorruptible spirit.

More on that later as well.

The 144,000 are just the "first fruits". Many other Christians will follow them in death as Revelation plainly says that "power was given him over the saints and he prevailed".

There's a lot to say on the end time prophecies but it's late and I'm tired. Teach me to browse through the recent posts before going to bed.

Actually, if you compare the book of revelation to historical accounts of the first century, "end times" happened 1900 or so years ago.
Especially "taking the mark of the beast--no man can buy or sell, etc." is very telling and historically documented in the first century.

But, for the true believer, "no may know the hour, and all should be prepared constantly" as some of the more mellow proponents argue, and any who attempt to put a date on the second coming are false prophets.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
The bible tells us that the Rapture will happen around the time of tribulation,

Actually, the bible NEVER MENTIONS a rapture. The rapture cult was invented by Nelson Darby back in the mid 1800s. There are already a ton of rapture threads. Pick one. These are just a few of the many rapture discussions.

www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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Jesus Prayed – ‘I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that
you keep them from the evil one’ – John 17:15

Those who ‘suffer with Him (for His sake) through the terrors of the last
days will at that time ‘also be glorified with Him’ (Romans 8:17)

the one ‘who endures to the end will be saved”
(Matthew 24:13; see also 10:22)

Some history on the Rapture Cult -

Different rapture cult beliefs

Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history

waiting to be raptured

Most people who hold dispensational beliefs assume they are based in the Bible and have ancient roots. But dispensationalism has been around less than 200 years. The father of dispensationalism is John Nelson Darby, a Protestant Irish lawyer who left his successful practice to become an Anglican priest. ... In 1827 Darby left the Anglican priesthood and by 1831 was among the leaders of the Plymouth Brethren, a non-denominational movement which denounced mainline Christianity. He began to teach that the true church would need to be removed from the earth in order to make way for the completion of God's dealings with the Jews. He named this secret removal of the church the Rapture. This belief was something completely new in Christianity. No previous Christian, neither Catholic nor Protestant, had ever proposed or taught such an thing.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
You're saying the bible is wrong?

There are SOOOOOOOOOOOO many contradictions in the bible it isn't funny. There are many threads here about it. Check them out. It's rather educational.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
The whole of revelations was a drug induced rant.

More likely a hallucination that an old man with dementia was having due to the extreme stress he was under at the time.



[edit on 1/28/2009 by FlyersFan]

The 144,000 are meant to be the baptized people and true followers. The Rapture will cause a worldwide panic and the Antichrist will explain why it happened.

Hasn't happened yet

The rapture is a hoax. It was created to get people to do bad things and then think they won't have to reap what they sow.

Yes, right now people actively work to make the prophecies happen. They actively work to bring about the anti-christ. And they do it all under the delusion that because they are doing "god's work", they will be raptured and not have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

These people openly admit it.

Some of them for example are in Israel right now, and they are basically drilling sideways into the middle east. So that they can steal the oil from the other countries, as supposedly Israel is geographically lower than the other places, the oil will flow into Israel.

People like John Hagee for example is one of them.

There is a video from the history channel that shows all of this, and even shows the drillers in Israel saying what I mentioned. But I can not find it right this minute. Trying to find a keyword that doesn't bring up Mayan 2012 stuff instead.

Christians actively working to bring about the anti-Christ. Is that yet another sign that Christianity is the anti-Christ religion?

For what it's worth. I was given the chance to leave 2 years ago. It was the only question the father asked me in my vision - Do you want it to end?



[edit on 28-1-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by gotrox
But, for the true believer, "no may know the hour, and all should be prepared constantly" as some of the more mellow proponents argue, and any who attempt to put a date on the second coming are false prophets.

Funny thing about this though. Many people just blatantly dismiss anyone because of this. Of course, not all will be false prophets, and the ones who aren't false will be dismissed in this line of thinking and rejected as false prophets, when of course these won't be false because they will actually be right.

People make alot of mistakes for reasons like these. They wait for some things to happen without realizing they already have, and they reject many things.

Take the entire religion of Christianity. They look at every religion but their own as being the false religion. When it is actually their religion which fulfills all the prophecies said of the false religion. Right down to being in the name of Christ. And what did this religion do right out of the gate? We went into the dark ages. Killed everyone who didn't go along(hmm, sounds like a prophecy I heard), and has pretty much ruled over a large portion of the earth the entire time. The president of the most powerful nation in the world many times just happens to be Christian, or will at least claim to be Christian. And so on.

Meanwhile they will point out people as being the anti-christ, or any religion that happens to gain a bit of footing around them the anti-christ religion, or the anti-Christ. Ridiculous.

Christians today would actively reject Jesus. And probably call him the anti-Christ. Because Jesus will call them out for their hypocrisy, their bigotry and all else.

I tell my friends I'm not a christian, I actually follow Jesus.