Obama's First Missile Strike

reply to post by resistor


That may be, but as Commander-in-Chief, Obama is ultimately responsible for whatever military policy is in effect. It doesn't matter if its day 3 of his administration or day 333. Even if he inherited this policy, until he changes it, it is HIS policy as well.

That said, I cannot imagine a scenario where the field commander is able to make the call to conduct strikes on foreign soil within a nation that we are not in a state of war with.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by vor78]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
This doesn't have anything to do with Obama except the timeline, that this is the first international incident to come along in his adminitration.

Oh please, no more Ronald Reagan Iran-Contra nothing-to-do-ness. Obama and several people in his cabinet/council have to be aware of and authorize such attacks. As such Obama has EARNED, at least from me, approval for his willingness to continue the fight in that region.

Truly expecting our government to come on television and say they authorized a strike to Pakistan, or anywhere for that matter is completely ignorant and against the site motto

If the government ever announces anything on tv regarding military action it's going to be way after the fact anyways (history tends to tell us they are always last and dont report until someone else finds out anyways.)

reply to post by n1zzzn


They're going to be reluctant to openly admit they've conducted these strikes anyway. To do so would make the Pakistani government look weak in the face of the very people we're trying to clear out. The last thing that anyone wants is for the Pakistani government to be overthrown and for control of their 25-100 nuclear warheads to end up in the hands of some lunatic.

By keeping it quiet, they accomplish their goals while doing as little internal damage to the stability of the Pakistani government as possible.

The last AP article linked metioned that despite what Pakistan says there may acutually be a "backroom" agreement between the US & Pakistan to allow these type of attacks.

It would kind of make sense. Pakistan dosen't want to offically say the strikes are ok. But, they don't want the Taliban gaining more power and becoming more of a risk to the current Pakistan government and they are either unwilling or unable to deal with the issue themselves.

For what its worth - I was just reading an article about how the Taliban have now taken control of the Swat Valley (Its mentioned in the AP article as well).

The map at the article below shows how much area in Pakistan is under Taliban control.

Long War Journal - Swat Valley

The government has lost complete control of the district, according to reports from the region. The government controls the main town of Mingora but has no presence outside. And inside Mingora, the Taliban have cowered the population.

Mingora's central square, know as the Green Chowk, has been renamed the slaughter Chowk, as the Taliban routinely dumps bodies there and occasionally conducts public executions. In December, the Taliban deposited 27 bodies in the square and ordered the resident not to move them. Taliban snipers routinely fire in the town, forcing residents to remain indoors.

Local residents that have attempted to resist the Taliban have met a harsh fate..

The Swat Taliban have conducted a wave of targeted assassinations against police officers, tribal leaders, and politicians. Family members of government officials and tribal leaders have been killed and their homes have been torched.
.........
Police and government officials live in fear of being targeted, and many have taken out public advertisement or carry letters to announce their resignations.

Those who have dared to resist the Taliban have been brutally murdered and made an example of to others. An influential tribal leader named Pir Samiullah was murdered last fall and his corpse was desecrated after he organized his tribe to fight against the Taliban.

The Taliban laid siege to Saimullah's compound, killed or kidnapped the senior tribal leaders, and crushed the local opposition. Samiullah was among those killed. After he was buried, the Taliban returned, dug up his body and hanged it in public. Members of his tribe were not to touch Samiullah's body, and they didn't.

Given this - I could see how an "under the table" agreement might actually be in place that allows the strikes to continue.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by Frogs]

Only Congress can declare war, since Congress has not declared war against Pakistan, then the missile strikes can only come via presidential authority.

This has been well documented in the past.

CSPAN
Sempa
US Use of Force in Kosovo

Clinton and Bush both exercised this power.

Either we have rogue military commanders OR this strike was also authorized.

It's one or the other.

Of course, you are free to believe that these were not US drones, that they belonged to Iran, Israel or Russia...

Originally posted by nixie_nox

It says that it is the first attack since the inauguration. there was a cease fire during the inauguration.

Ceasefire between whom?

There is not a state of war or conflict between Pakistan and America.

What are you on about?

All this is saying that things have now heated up again between Pakistan and Israel and the cease fire is over.

Look at a map!

Pakistan and Israel are not at War and if they ever are so will the whole world, get your NBC suit ready in that case.

Reminding the US how many problems Obama has inherited and has to deal with.

Showing us only the course of actions that he has chosen to take and his intended thrust of military operations on Nation States, that is continuing a precendent set by the Neo Cons first alluded to in PNAC that is Pre Emptive military operations against any place on earth that deems to have any US enemies there active or not.

The very thing used to invade Iraq.

This doesn't have anything to do with Obama except the timeline, that this is the first international incident to come along in his adminitration.

Its not an "international incident" with nothing to do with Obama. Its a "International Incident" authorised by Obama and carried out by the US military.

The only thing Timeline has got to do with it is that Obama has stepped up the Pace of Attacks i.e. two in one day on Pakistan, and that it shows no variation from the course of international direction started by the previous administration.

Stop proprogating garbage, pay attention to the info. And take some anti-anxiety medicine for crying out loud.

Propagating that Pakistan and Israel are at war or conflict is garbage, nothing I have posted is thank you very much.

I really suggest you pay attention to the Info of reality and don't say that to others, when your grasp of world events is blatantly soo misguided.

Also where was it ever mentioned except in only speculation that a ceasefire is because of the innaguration, if you realised the truth you would see Israel started withdrawing from the West Bank, a totally different continent to where Pakistan is BTW, and no one ever officially mentioned it had anything to do with the American political scene. Though this last point is probably the only correct thing you stated.

Oh if only I had the innocence and ignorance to be calm about this, and lived in a world where I thought as you did, it may be much easier!

I will stick with truth, Knowledge and slight stress than ignorance and deluded thank you very much.

Kind Regards,

Elf.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by resistor

 

That may be, but as Commander-in-Chief, Obama is ultimately responsible for whatever military policy is in effect. It doesn't matter if its day 3 of his administration or day 333. Even if he inherited this policy, until he changes it, it is HIS policy as well.

That said, I cannot imagine a scenario where the field commander is able to make the call to conduct strikes on foreign soil within a nation that we are not in a state of war with.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by vor78]

Well sure, Obama could have made his first priority a full military stand down until further notice. Obviously he decided not to do that, and wisely so IMO. You don’t throwing a spanner in the works before you’ve even seen the first cog. Of course you’re right that this strike goes down as under Obama’s watch.

Obama plainly said he would shift the military focus from Iraq to Afghanistan anyway, so this is not too surprising.

I am an "Obama supporter" and have always held a bone of contention on this particular issue throughout the campaign and now. I always knew I would have an issue with this and am really not surprised.

However, I do feel that it will not be all of the same as others are touting in this thread. I believe there will be MUCH more diplomacy dealing with Pakistan. I am sure this is a sign to the leadership there that he meant what he said and just because he is only a few days into his presidency he will still take action when he sees fit no matter the timeline.

We all have to be realistic here that it wasn't going to be all blue birds singing the second he took office.

I pray he makes these hard decisions "right," whatever that is.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Yeah, I'm certain that an Executive Order takes about a year to take effect to shut down all missile strikes in Pakistan.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by deltaboy]

Originally posted by nixie_nox

It says that it is the first attack since the inauguration. there was a cease fire during the inauguration.

All this is saying that things have now heated up again between Pakistan and Israel and the cease fire is over.

Reminding the US how many problems Obama has inherited and has to deal with.

This doesn't have anything to do with Obama except the timeline, that this is the first international incident to come along in his adminitration.

Stop proprogating garbage, pay attention to the info. And take some anti-anxiety medicine for crying out loud.

Did you just say Pakistan and....

I'll let you figure that one out.



Back to the OP...

Maybe it's a case of mistaken reverse psychology.
It couldn't possibly be business as usual! There's no way it could be reported by the MSM the same way every other "suspected" air strike that was actually carried out by the U.S.A. in Pakistan! That's how it worked when that mean ol' Bush was the POTUS!

When the messiah took over a blanket of hope enveloped the universe in tingly tickles and bunny kisses! Didn't you hear? No more owies...ever!

No surprises and nothing to get exited about,
deny ....Oh you know the motto.

reply to post by resistor


I agree, you certainly can't tell the military to stand down until further notice, but this is a completely different set of circumstances than exist in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are not in a state of war with Pakistan, declared or otherwise. If field commanders can make the decision to carry out a strike such as this, consider the implication: field commanders can unilaterally take action that can potentially start a war! As such, I'd be shocked if this happened without explicit presidential approval and its a horrifically irresponsible policy if that's not the case.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

No blame of bush... simply saying that there are still policies from the previous admin which Obama is changing...

Thats not how it works I'm afraid. Not to mention, Obama's own words saying that this is his policy...

reply to post by deltaboy

Yeah, I'm certain that an Executive Order takes about a year to take effect to shut down all missile strikes in Pakistan.

Are you being sarcastic?


[edit on 23-1-2009 by Bakane]

reply to post by lernmore


If you remember correctly it wasn't reported by the MSM right away.

reply to post by silo13


Sorry you little hope monkey, strike orders over a sovereign nation that we are NOT at war with, come directly from the top. Or are you going to say that GW Bush didn't slaughter millions now? It was all a rouge group of secret cabinet members wiping people out without his knowledge?

Propaganda indeed.

Well, it looks like Barry has started his criminal attacks on sovereign democratic countries. That didn't take very long. And for all those thinking this is the beginning of a military coup and Barry did not authorize this attack, where's your evidence of that? Until you come up with that, Barry is Commander In Chief of the United States military, and is responsible for all actions taken by the United States military.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

All this is saying that things have now heated up again between Pakistan and Israel and the cease fire is over.


Stop proprogating garbage, pay attention to the info. And take some anti-anxiety medicine for crying out loud.

Dude what? Israel and Pakistan now? Where did you conjure that crap up? I'd like to know where you are getting your news.

Originally posted by lernmore

When the messiah took over a blanket of hope enveloped the universe in tingly tickles and bunny kisses! Didn't you hear? No more owies...ever!

THX for the giggle, I needed that.

reply to post by vor78


Obviously there must be POTUS authorization for such an attack, but I just can't imagine Obama on the phone with the area commander saying, 'fire missile one, fire missile two!' I think he just gives (or continues) such authority within certain limitations and lets the pro's do their thing.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Originally posted by nixie_nox

It says that it is the first attack since the inauguration. there was a cease fire during the inauguration.


Ceasefire between whom?

There is not a state of war or conflict between Pakistan and America.

What are you on about?

Between Israel and Pakistan.

Israel begins cease fire on Sunday

All this is saying that things have now heated up again between Pakistan and Israel and the cease fire is over.

What does war have to do with anything. War doesn't have to be declard for a few countries to volley a few missles at each other. It is just a reference to the situation in Gaza.

Reminding the US how many problems Obama has inherited and has to deal with.

Again there is no proof this has anything to do with the US. It was a suspected US drone, nothing else.
And it will be just an unknown drone until more proof is provided.

This doesn't have anything to do with Obama except the timeline, that this is the first international incident to come along in his adminitration.

Its not an "international incident" with nothing to do with Obama. Its a "International Incident" authorised by Obama and carried out by the US military.

The only thing Timeline has got to do with it is that Obama has stepped up the Pace of Attacks i.e. two in one day on Pakistan, and that it shows no variation from the course of international direction started by the previous administration.

Again, where is your proof? A "suspected" US drone, info given by Pakistan none the less, has launched the missles. No other information is given and what you are saying is purely speculative, and mis-leading.

Stop proprogating garbage, pay attention to the info. And take some anti-anxiety medicine for crying out loud.

Propagating that Pakistan and Israel are at war or conflict is garbage, nothing I have posted is thank you very much.

So there is nothing going on at Gaza?

I really suggest you pay attention to the Info of reality and don't say that to others, when your grasp of world events is blatantly soo misguided.

The only thing misguided is your ability to extract correct information from an article.

Also where was it ever mentioned except in only speculation that a ceasefire is because of the innaguration,

Gaza Ceasfire

EU to meet middle east on Gaza Ceasefire

Security council calls for durable cease fire in gaza




Now what COULD mean, and even worse, is that if the US is allies with Israel, it is possible they have US military equipment. And despite leaders best efforts to keep a cease fire agreement in Gaza, Israel decided to take it upon itself and launch an offensive again.Keeping Palestine in a viable state.

And what would this mean for Obama, if indeed he wants to get Al-Queda out of the hills, if Israel is causing any more strife between the Us and Palestine, making it harder to hunt down Al-Queda members.

reply to post by deltaboy


Yea exactly, when you are taking over the white house after the bush adminitration. Considering it has only been two days.

They are having trouble sending emails, making calls, etc.

white house in the technological dark ages

White house in the technological dark ages