It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric

reply to post by masonwatcher


It is highly ironic that you make claims of premeditated misinterpretation and spurious mistranslation - it appears that when imans say that good muslims should
'beat their wives lightly'
The word 'lightly' was an added in as a complete fabrication and does not exist in the qu'ran text.
See 5:36

So,if we're being honest about it,we should concede that islamic/abrahamic lore condones wifebeating and the subjugation of women.
It also laughs in the face of sexual equality and sees females as property -perhaps this 'religiously inspired minset' is why the thread exists in the first place.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

IT WAS NEVER ACCEPTABLE FOR A 8 YEAR OLD GIRL TO BE MARRIED TO A FORTY SOME YEAR OLD MAN IN THE WEST.

Sorry, but this claim that we did this in the past is completely false. Thirteen is as young as has been acceptable, and never with a forty year old. The famous case of Edgar Allen Poe marrying a child bride of 13 at the age of twenty-seven has always been considered scandalous, and that is over a 150 years ago. While it might have been legal for a marriage between a child bride and a man in his forties, it was never socially acceptable, and should the girl choose to flee the marriage, she would find society supporting her, not punishing her as in the Muslim world where this practice is backed by the church.

It was acceptable in the past to invade neighboring countries, kill, rape, and pillage your way across the country side, to the victor go the spoils, but that is no longer acceptable either. Are we supposed to look the other way for some barbaric practices and not for others?

What about the reports of kidnappings of young girls who are shipped off overseas to become child brides? Do you want to live around people who find these types of things acceptable? What happens when some adults ten year old bride gets a crush on your son who is in the same grade with her?

The Qur'an teaches that in Muhammed, you have a good example.

Since Muhammed married a child, why would a Muslim cleric say differently?

Muhammed was 53 when he took 6-year-old Aisha as another one of his multiple brides.

How does a child have the experience, intellect, and judgment to consent to such a thing?

Let's see what Muhammed had to say:

"The Prophet (Muhammed) said, 'A virgin should not be married until she is asked for her consent.' One may wonder how a child virgin gives her consent? 'He said, by remaining silent.'

If your Prophet was a pedophile, with multiple wives, concubines, and slaves, then of course your clerics will be compelled to go along with the program.

Muhammed consumated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine.

Aisha says she was married when seven, and the marriage was consumated when she was nine, but the dates don't add up.

Tabari VII: 7 says, 'The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time, she was six.'

Nice Prophet.

Setting fine examples of behavior.

What a dog.

Originally posted by yenko13
It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric

Child rape. Pedophilia

Originally posted by arnold_vosloo
But catholic priests sexually abusing young boys is ok, right?

The VERY FEW priests that did that were pedophiles who used the system in order to prey on children. Pedophilia is NOT sanctioned by the church and is against church teaching. However, the Saudi Cleric is not alone in his teachings. Trying to tie the scandal in the Catholic Church to the sanctioned underage 'marriage' in Islam doesn't work.


Bottom line - this is just another way that people in that part of the world continue to have power and control over women. 'Marry' them off young - get them pregnant as soon as possible - keep them as uneducated and as subsurvient as you can - cane them if they get 'uppity' ....

Not all Imams and Clerics teach that, but a lot do. And as was said earlier, this childhood 'marriage' is practiced in a lot of places, QUIETLY.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Which fits perfectly into Islams world domination plan. They turn their women into baby making machines, so that their population out grows the local population where ever they are allowed to settle. Soon they out number the people of the host nation, and then they start taking over.

Nothing more than child perversion under 3rd world religion polices. Shame on you perverts.

So, if a ten year old has breast development already then it is okay for you to crawl on top of her and rip apart her vagina bloody and her mind apart for your personal use.

Good stuff guys.

btw, girls who you are defending that this is a cultural practice - in those cultures the girls get fistulas that cause a hole from their colon or urethera into to leak fecal matter and urine into their vaginas and uterus constantly. This happens regularly. Plus, far more of their babies die. BECAUSE THEIR BODIES AREN'T READY FOR IT.

[edit on 2009/1/22 by Aeons]

Originally posted by DisgustedOne

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by yenko13

 

Oh puhlease.. not 400 hundred years ago Europe was doing the same thing.


This is not so much sick as it is completely alien to western culture today.

I'm not advocating it in any sense of the word, simply saying that let's not act like this is some sort of islamic pedophilia.

Ok... let's get this straight.

The more fundamentalist your religion, the more PRIMITIVE you are. The more PRIMITIVE you are.. the more your values are based on survival of your family lineage and social dominance.


That goes for all religions.


So given the fundamentalist nature of many sects of Islam, this is not unexpected. As I said... 400 years ago Europe was doing the same thing.

I have to disagree with you on your view that all Fundamentalists are primitive in this context. I consider myself a Fundy (Christian) and most of the people I associate with, but we would never, ever condone underage or unmarried girls becoming some perverts property (that really is what this boils down to). And just to clarify, we do not believe that once a woman does marry that she becomes her husbands property. She becomes his partner.

Really? How old was Sarah?

You do realize that lots of the brides in the early OT were quite young don't you? I mean how much fundamentalist can you get really.

What I mean by Primitive is... pressured by a sense of insecurity and need for survival to such a degree that one will accept extreme ideas.

The thing to remember is that Fundamentalists are never a phenomena of NOW they are nothing more than a group of people saying "It was better when..."

Most of the people I associate with are well educated, professional, intelligent people - accountants, doctors, software programmers, technicians, business owners, etc., and we are all fundamental Christians.

Well guess what... how many murderers and perverts are actually well educated, professional, intelligent people? Accountants, doctors, software programmers, technicians and business owners?

You act as if these achievements make someone better somehow.

When in fact we have found that the higher up in power someone in the clergy becomes, the more apt they are to be found a self-loathing homosexual, or a meth head, or a pedophile, or as in the case of the BTK killer... a torturer and murderer.

I'm sorry but someone's education and occupation doesn't relieve them from being completely insance.

But not primitive. Please don't paint with such a broad brush.

I'm sorry, but it's the case. Fundamentalists, although functional, are primitive.

Let me give you an example of the mind frame which is not primitive.

One that is not tied to a sense of insecurity. One that can assume that everything they know is completely false, and be ok with it.

Someone who does not act or think out of fear.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by poet1b

IT WAS NEVER ACCEPTABLE FOR A 8 YEAR OLD GIRL TO BE MARRIED TO A FORTY SOME YEAR OLD MAN IN THE WEST.

Sorry, but this claim that we did this in the past is completely false. Thirteen is as young as has been acceptable, and never with a forty year old.

Really?

You can back this up?

10 year old girls? Really? Looks like they raised the age limit since last time I checked. Last I heard they could marry toddlers. You should check it out. And watch the video linked there. These guys are serious.

Muslims can marry toddlers and have sex with 9 year old girls?

Originally posted by dbates
10 year old girls? Really? Looks like they raised the age limit since last time I checked. Last I heard they could marry toddlers. You should check it out. And watch the video linked there. These guys are serious.

Muslims can marry toddlers and have sex with 9 year old girls?

See there ya go...

Those who believe in marrying 9 year olds = conservative
Those who believe in marrying 10 year olds = liberal.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Just because a similar thing happened in the OT doesn't mean it is practised as a standard part of Western morals.

We have grown beyond it, and they should too.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just because a similar thing happened in the OT doesn't mean it is practised as a standard part of Western morals.

We have grown beyond it, and they should too.

I agree...

But you obviously didn't read the post I was replying to.


The poster I was replying to stated that he/she is a fundamentalist Christian, and they would never do that.

I attempted to explain that a Fundamentalist is someone who believes in the hard core fundamentals laid out in the cannon.

I didn't use that as a justification for anything else other than to prove that to be a fundamentalist you first have to have a primitive mind.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
to be a fundamentalist you first have to have a primitive mind.

Do you believe that to be a fundamental truth, or just a half-truth?

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
to be a fundamentalist you first have to have a primitive mind.

Do you believe that to be a fundamental truth, or just a half-truth?

:-)


Well, to be honest, most of us act like cavemen, driven by our emotions and sense of ego-centrism.

The Primitive mind is quick to judge and slow to understand. It has to be.. it's reflexive. It's not reflective.

Originally posted by yenko13
Its a broad brush they paint with and the deeper you look the fater the brush gets , they have girls as young as 3 being married , how much broader can you get, The Muslim Clerics are the educated class of Muslim legal scholars,they are most powerful in the Shi'a tradition of Islam, I will not condone that type of behavior,

Couple of points here...
First, just because you are a 'muslim cleric' doesn't mean you speak for the faith. If so, then it follows that if you are Christian, then you think that 911 happened and the troops overseas are being killed because of the Gays in America. A Christian cleric said so, eh? (Reverend Fred Phelps). Remember, too that there's a lot of archaic stuff in the Bible that would get you locked up should you attempt to exercise your religious rights.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia is full of seriously fundamentalist fruitcakes that are preaching to a lot of folks just come in off the dunes. Not terrifically aware of the world at large. The Royal family blows tons of dough keeping them in line, which essentially bankrolls the extremists. But women can't drive, show ankles and wrists...how come the West hasn't gone to bat for their rights?

Could it be the oil? Either way, I'm sure most Muslims are as aghast at statements like this as you are. And I will guess that a lot of this stuff is based upon cultural practices...again think a primitive audience.

If I'm wrong...if this is indeed a common practice among Muslims, please show me the error of my ways. Oh. and Saudis are Wahhabi, not Shia

...and I'm not asking you to condone this sort of behavior, I'm just asking that it not be used to fuel that anti-Islamic racism that is out there.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Going great, until you said "anti-Islamic racism".

That was plain stupid. Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. I'm sure Milošević's Muslim victims were all pretty damn white, as they would have been the result of Ottoman conquests from centuries earlier.

And, just to reiterate: you cannot be racist against a religion. I wish people would stop trying to do their job as the thought-police by attempting to tie the two together.

Why do people continually bring in "but Christians did this!" when we argue about the immorality of what some Muslim guy preaches? In the end, it doesn't matter. Talk is cheap, and bitching about it doesn't change anything.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Going great, until you said "anti-Islamic racism".

That was plain stupid. Islam isn't a race, it's a religion...
And, just to reiterate: you cannot be racist against a religion. I wish people would stop trying to do their job as the thought-police by attempting to tie the two together.

Well excuse me all to heck. The word 'racism' slipped in. I should have said bigotry.

The fact is that I am tired of all the sophomoric fingerpointing going on that says "See, see! That's why it's ok for me to despise [add group-du-jour here]!!"...and I erred.

I'd suggest that you lighten up...I'd challenge you on the use of that word 'stupid'. More bigotry?

Originally posted by MacDonagh
Why do people continually bring in "but Christians did this!" when we argue about the immorality of what some Muslim guy preaches? In the end, it doesn't matter. Talk is cheap, and bitching about it doesn't change anything.

Quite simply, it is because threads like this are used to promote fear and hatred of 'The Other'. Christianity...the dominant religion on these shores... is invoked in response because it prompts one to look in the mirror. This kind of thread is used to dehumanize people so that it becomes ok to go there and kill them.

An edit to say that bitching does do something...it generates discourse. It's sitting around doing nothing that accomplishes precisely that.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]