It's an injustice to NOT marry girls aged 10, says Saudi cleric

so `muslim clerics` are paedofiles for saying its ok for 12 year olds to marry but its perfectly ok when a 14 year old has a baby - legally , in arkansas , indiana and iowa then.


ooooh wait you`ll LOVE this one:

going on the theory of the OP and others in this thread


Texas borders Mexico (well duh) and the Mexican state of Coahuila is on that border

the age of consent in Coahuila is


12

so (can you see where this is going mr OP)

Texan FRAT boys , dont cross the border because of the wild parties and cheap beer - oh no (you tube MUST be wrong)

they go because the age of consent is


12

so , going by the `lets tar everyone with the same damn brush` theory


ALL Texas frat boys are PEDOFILES.

It only seems wrong because it is not okay where you come from.

The reason it is not okay where you come from is our own fault. Mankind has slowed the 'growing up' process. As people have said, when the life expectancy was much lower, only around 30, people were having children much younger than they do (mostly) today, and managed to bring them up relatively well.

Yet most children today could not handle that responsibility, or so we are told. It's our own fault...


I am in no way condoning paedophilia by the way, I read my message and it does look like I am, but that is not my intention.

Originally posted by yenko13

We dont try to fix these things we just watch in amazement ,

If you want your 10 year old with a man so be it, But lets not spread that here like they try to bring Sharia law here , forget about it

Who is spreading anything here? Its already spread here in more ways than you want to realize. Quit hiding behind denial and see things as they are in this world, including on our own turf.

BTW, I dont have a 10 yr old daughter, she is 16 and had more sense to not pay attention to all this intimidating music, tv shows, fashion commercials and peer pressures at the age of 10 and now at 16 has more decency than most girls her age. I find that highly admirable of her and even she recognizes that there isnt a thing we can do about what other countries do or how they live. She is only concerned about where she lives and clearly sees the problems our youth face every single day.

Again, lets fix our s... first before sitting around being amazed at what others do. Armchair analytics never solves anything.



Cheers!!!!

Child Marriage or Arrange Marriages are nothing new, especially for this part of the world. It is an part of their culture that goes back before the time of Christ. It used to have a lot to do with dowries and such. It is mainly just religious purposes today. When I attended high school, our valedictorian was an Indian Hindu beliefs. Our Junior year we asked him why we never seen him dating any one from the school or from one of the other schools. He told us that he had already had an arranged marriage to a girl in Michigan and he thought it would be cheating on her to date someone else. I thought it was crazy at the time, but if that is the religion you grow up in then it must seem normal to them.

As StevenDye said, in recent history society, particularly Western, has created this prolonged adolescence period. And there's some evidence that it's still continuing to advance, what with people no longer marrying in their twenties (and many still living at home until they are nearly thirty), but often waiting until their thirties.

We forget that marriage, again, until recently, was really a legal contract between two families. And more to do with money, land, income and good relations with your neighbors than it had to do with love. Only in the last century or so have we come to expect what's called 'love matches' out of marriage.

This is also about control. As we have moved forward in cultural progression, we have left behind archaic ways of doing things, and one of these has been due to to 'womens liberation'. As much as we, in the west, and of the last couple of generations, think of it in terms of today, we forget that it meant in the past. It wasn't that long ago that women couldn't own property on their own or vote. Women have historically had barely more rights than stock animals.

And in some cultures still, around the world, women are living their lives in the chains of archaic social structure. Of course they want women to marry young; again, it's all about control. It's much easier to influence and control a ten year old rather than a twenty-five year old.

Originally posted by deltaboy
You need to listen to these clerics. They are the voice of Allah. When Allah says its permitted to hit 10 year old virgins, then its okay.

They're the voice of "Allah"? Exactly where in the Quran does it says that clerics are the voice of Allah? Post your proof.

Though the mufti's pronouncements are respected and provide guidance, the government is not legally bound by them.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

This guy can say anything he wants but it doesn't mean that people or the goverment will have to follow. Currently, Islam is not guided by a single person, like the role of a Pope, so what one cleric says can be denied by another.

[edit on Wed Jan 14th 2009 by DJMessiah]

NETHERLANDS LAWS:

1. Has no sodomy laws, the age of sexual consent is 16 for all, sex between an adult and a young person between the ages of 12 and 16 is permitted by law, as long as the young person consents. It may only be prosecuted by complaint from the young person or the young person’s parents. The question remains whether the public prosecutions department would proceed to prosecute if the young person themself had consented and their parents filed the complaint.

www.ageofconsent.com...

Any adult in the EU can have sex with a 12 year old and they don't have to marry them either. Garry Glitter didn't need to go to Cambodia for his thrills. The fairy just needed to hope on a ferry.

[edit on 023131p://pm3134 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by arnold_vosloo


What kind of deranged comment is this? how did liberals become as crazy as conservatives?

It just Amazes me how far those who wish to degrade our culture have come in convincing us to self hate!

"Like Priests"

NO not like Priests, Priests aren't supposed to have sex with Children... perhaps for some it is simply in a world of sexual exposure too much too remain celibate for life and that is a mistake, but none the less it is still a very tiny minority of priests that commit those (illegal btw) acts

The Cleric is saying it is GOOD for Girls to be married and of course by nature of that arrangement to be made love to at 10 years of age...

Which drops the act, well below puberty for most Girls i'm sure... To a place where they can never enjoy and probably experience great suffering from sex...

and it's disgusting...

Shame on you for that comparison

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I don't know the case but I suspect in a country as sexually conservative as Saudi, the cleric may have been referring to the sanctity of marriage. I still think he is wrong and it is still illegal for a 10 year old to marry in Saudi.

Regarding your comment; although the Catholic Church does not permit paedophilia it happened extensively and covered up. That is a form of consent.

Also there are other religions, not Muslim, that say it is ok to have sex with a 3 year old. This was based on the opinion of one cleric.

reply to post by RFBurns


There are things that people disagree on and things that are simply wrong.

This is one of them, it's not a matter of forcing morals, whatever we are... the argument can be made that our society is FAR from perfect, but what these women here are of legal age...

Even our teens acting out on springer even if it's a 3 yr diference, they have passed puberty and act of their g-d given free will even if their behavior is moronic... their bodies are ready, they Desire to do the things they do albeit immoral or stupid or foolish...

Some things are worth having a fight over...

When The Spanish arrived in the West they had a row with the Natives of South America... They were ripping the hearts out of women for ritual sacrifice...

Real;istically Spanish Culture was, not so fantastic itself lol, it doesn't mean they genuinely didn't have the moral high ground or that the two cultures could advance together without the Heart Eating One dismantled first...

There is nothing wrong for fighting genuine Evil when it rears it's head in another culture... This is an instance of it not a cultural difference...

It's generation after generation of young girl that will never know freedom from suffering or have anyone truely respect them as a human being.

Forcing cultural values would be... Making them watch our Crappy TV shows or making them wear shoes not sandals or arguing over what name to call g-d...


This, is something most of us simply can't coexist with, it's different

reply to post by masonwatcher


Biggest mistake we ever make is draw names and numbers to things...

Certain crimes should be decided by Eye...

(lol in a non partial no finance making legal system where a genuinely fair minded impartial judge decides) (good luck figuring that system out I must add)

There is a certain obviousness that only the eye and a conversation can Judge... Has or has not a Young Girl... reached puberty and is she ready to have sex?

In our country we Mandate these things, which of course sends people to jail unfairly

It is an example among MANY

Where... our system of Jury used based NOT on Mandatory Minimums but rather on the OPINION of a body of your fellow citizens is supposed to work...

we have of course ruined that nice system ourselves... the Jury is no longer asked Right or Wrong... but rather did the person on Trial... Defy a Number, so there is no longer right or wrong being imposed by courts but rather... a figure a guesstimate...

reply to post by masonwatcher


siiigh, yes... the Catholic Church has tried to "cover it up" plenty of times

and

I'd add it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed

Again I'd say there is a basic flaw in the celibacy route Priests are placed on and it needs rethinking

I think I can get behind this.

Marry them off as soon as possible. It'll decrease the chances of them being a high school sophomore on their third fatherless child.

Without that demographic what would Maury Povich have on his show?

there is one positive to it actually, they are married and taken care of.

How many young teen girls are raising babies by themselves?

I have a cousin by marriage, who had a baby at 12, by a 26 year old who took off the moment the stick turned pink.

Her father had her at 13.
his mother had him at 14.

She is now a great grandmother at 39.


And there are many stories like this.
So are our standards really much better?

Because the person wasn't forced to marry? and are now wards of the state and their parents, and the child is raised by a baby all alone.

The term minor in relation to the age of the female at the time of marriage is a varied as the cultures that practise the rite of marriage based on the dowry system. Basically, the younger the bride, the bigger the dowry but this is also dependent on the status of the family as well.

Personally, I think that any girl or boy under 18 is a minor but that is my perception based on the cultural norms that are acceptable in the society I live in. Someone else may say 16 is a minor age.

Child brides are not peculiar to Islam. This practise can be found all around the world.

There is a lot of info out there if anyone wants to dig further.

I do not agree with marrying off girls of minor age but having studied a bit of anthropology during my years at university has given me an understanding of why cultures practise this.


take care all
res

reply to post by Aeons


What is the mind of a 10 year old?

It is what we make it, a 10 year old forced to take care of her mum who is ill, whilst the dad has gone will be much more mature than a 10 year old who has everything done for her.


No two people are the same, some 16 year olds wont be much more mature than a 10 year old, but are legally able to marry and have sex (Where I am).

And not so long ago, your relatives were probably doing some very similar things... I'm not necesarrily condoning it, but how can I condemn something which may well be the only reason I was born?


We force children to be children for longer because of the way we bring them up, most animals have sex as soon as physically ready, we no longer do that because of advances in technology etc... We only perceive it to be wrong, because we are brought up in an age where it is no longer the norm...

Whilst I understand why marriage with child brides is practised, I do not agree with it. I am very glad that I was not born into a society that does this and I cultural practises such as this should be outlawed.

When I was at uni I did a semester on Women in Antiquity as part of my Classical Studies and one module was the dowry system and child brides. Our focus was on this ancient rite in a modern world...Ethiopian child brides.

A lot of these poor little girls try to run away only to be found, bashed, raped or even killed for being defiant. Defiance in a situation like this is seen as a flaw and reflects badly on the parents of the girl because it ruins thefamily's status. Defiance impacts on a future dowry if their are other daughters to be married off.

Death in childbirth is common, as are still births. as well as psychologcal damage, many of them have horrific and occasionally irrepairable physical damage due to childbirth at a young age. The physical damage is called a fistula and this means that the bladder wall, uterus and vagina are damaged. This means no more sex or babies so they are shunned and isolated from their family and that of husband. They are goods that were bought and paid for but now useless.

Two Aussie doctors (husband and wife) both gynaecologists opened a hospital to help these girls and surgically repair their broken bodies.

Do a search on child brides in Ethiopia


Child brides are a male construct to ensure status amongst their peers.


take care all
res

reply to post by resistancia


I am male, but honestly, more often than not, the behavior of those of my own gender DISGUST me. Are you saying that in some countries, the younger the bride, the greater the grooms status?????? Sad, sad, sad.....

reply to post by mopusvindictus



Its wrong from OUR point of view. Not theirs. That is the point. Our point of view does not apply to another culture's life ways. Our point of view is not the deciding factor of all of humanity. Our point of view is as you put it, not perfect. Neither is others.

The best thing to fight for is to make sure OUR way of life HERE is preserved. We can hope that other cultures will change for the better, but to expect them to live up to OUR life ways is like expecting hell to freeze over.

To them it doesnt matter what I think, what you think, or what others who have posted in this thread think. It is THEIR way of life, and has been that way for centuries.

And when this great nation first started out...guess how old the typical aged married female was?

Try anywhere between 13 and 18. And most of those marriages were in a Christian way of life.

As far as those tv shows or music and the rest, those people in these off beat cultures are not forced to listen to it, watch it or endure it. However, can you say the same for our young?

Nope. Its not forced on our young, its dressed up to fit the young tastes and thus is voluntarily listened to, watched and accepted.



Cheers!!!!