Written by the finger of god? What was ?

reply to post by moocowman



My attention span is short for nonsense. it just ran out on this thread.

reply to post by GTORick

In fact, isn't the argument in your tag line what Christians use to speak about gays? We (Christians) don't hate gays just what they d

Are you saying the bibles have been changed again and all homophobic references have been removed ?

Did someone forget to tell all the other xtians with last years version of the bible ?

Clearly someone completely forgot to inform a big chunk of the congregations around here, they're still working with the one knocked up at Nicea ?

Has the jesusgod changed his mind again does he no longer hate what gays do ?

What about his appalling attitudes toward women (especially the young virgin types ) or slaves. Are you saying this filth has now been removed from the bibles ?

Or you just don't share the same opinion as the men that wrote the bibles ?

reply to post by moocowman


I find it interesting how you construct your case. First, you cite a scholar with not 1, but 2 Ph.D's. It's nice that he was in a position to spend most of his early life in school. Ah, and he's associated with "good" schools so we must take him as a serious person and an expert. You then cite one side of a story about his discovery of a Clementine letter but you don't cite the books that have been written by equally serious people for and against this as a possible forgery. Further, you forward a conclusion that perhaps Jesus was gay while in fact the letter would appear to slam the Carpocratians for engaging in such behavior. So, Clementine is a follower of Jesus but not that gay part?

I'm not sure how old you are but you should understand that academe is a business, not truth. Ancients running around with scrolls trying to accurately relay their story are certainly more trustworthy because they have no conflict of interest. Academicians do - and you should be placing your jaundiced eye on them.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by GTORick

 

Has the jesusgod changed his mind again does he no longer hate what gays do ?

What about his appalling attitudes toward women (especially the young virgin types ) or slaves. Are you saying this filth has now been removed from the bibles ?

Or you just don't share the same opinion as the men that wrote the bibles ?

Sorry, Jesus hated sin. Sin is defined very accurately in the OT. Why is it that when confronted with the temptation to sin he quoted the OT?

When he asked the woman caught in adultery where her accusers were and they had left, he said he wouldn't condemn her either and that she was to sin no more. Jesus clearly felt that her behavior was sinful and he told her to knock it off.

As far as your consideration of these "attitudes" as appalling, all I can say is nobody likes to find out their particular sin is sin.

Christians stand on their soap boxes, screaming at the world trying to dictate how everyone should conduct themselves

I love how someone starts their conversation off with gross exaggeration to try and make a point.

If you choose to ignore the Christian faith entirely, you can live your entire life without nary a peep out of them, except the occasional guy at the door, you can simply say "I'm sorry, I'm not interested" to, or just not open the door.

I haven't had a Christian screaming at me to conform in my entire life. Where do you live.. in the heart of the bible belt or something?

Originally posted by moocowman
You mean to say there are different types of christians ? Really ? Well there you go I was led to believe that there was only one word of god.
So to give respect where it's due I apologize profusely to all those xtians that don't believe the bibles were written by the finger of a god, or don't agree with the contents and historic veracity of said books.

Are you really this ignorant? Is your IQ less than 80? I'm not trying to insult you here, but you are showing the kind of thinking that someone who would score less than 80 on an IQ test.

True or false?

Some Gads are Pads, Some Pads are Mads, thus All Gads are Mads.


asleJ 'V

Contrary to your assumption I would find it most interesting indeed if you were to , how did you put it ?

"I somehow doubt you would like it very much if we took samples of the worse gay people we could find and used it as an example against you"


So who do you have in mind ? Would you say for example that Ted haggard is a worse gay than George Michael ?
Or was Rock Hudson a worse Gay than Elton John ?
If Jesus were gay would he be worse than Ted Haggard ?

I don't know, I'm sure there are examples out there of it.

How do you measure this by the way? I'm heterosexual so I'm a little lost in your (closet?) gay terminology .

I don't really care if people are gay or not. You just said in another thread you were gay, so whatever.

reply to post by fleabit


they do it all the time concerning homosexuallity.. and a few other things..i live in wis and i hear this all the time

[edit on 12-1-2009 by scorand]

I actually entered and patiently sat and listened through sermons in various houses of worship, different religions. I investigated, interviewed, assimilated, and concluded that some of the people who need these cults are limited in their development and others are dangerous fanatics. I know that xtians would be the first to kill christ if he ever happened to be real or come back! There is no savior, we are totally on our own. With the polution and the drama the greed and perversion that people continue to produce - proves that these books have been useless up till now and they seem to foster division and segregation.

Originally posted by HulaAnglers
I actually entered and patiently sat and listened through sermons in various houses of worship, different religions. I investigated, interviewed, assimilated, and concluded that some of the people who need these cults are limited in their development and others are dangerous fanatics. I know that xtians would be the first to kill christ if he ever happened to be real or come back! There is no savior, we are totally on our own. With the polution and the drama the greed and perversion that people continue to produce - proves that these books have been useless up till now and they seem to foster division and segregation.

Yes they would. I call the church the church of Satan.

But if you actually look at the book and can understand the book, then you can also see that these very things are predicted and warned about. The way those people act is opposite of what Jesus says to do. So yeah, I agree with you in what you see, but I think it is equally foolish to dismiss it all based on their actions.

I did the same thing, and it wasn't until I realized that Jesus was actually against that kind of stuff that I changed my mind. The stuff you see is the same kind of nonsense Jesus talked about. Just like you say - they would kill Christ if he returned, just as the people back then did.

It is up to you, your own actions are what matters. Jesus is just an example of the correct way to be. Be the change you want to see, and when you think of how people would act in a decent and peaceful society, you will see the path of Jesus. You don't have to believe all that miracle stuff, that the bible is the word of god or all the other things. To see what I am talking about and being that change is to believe for the works sake, and that is plenty enough and way more than those who are pointed out do.

Like the OP isn't being the change he wants to see. He wants to force certain things onto society, because people try to force things onto him. Instead of being against forcing things onto other people, it's just a matter of arguing about what is forced on people. What he is actually advocating is that right or wrong should be forced on people. To be the change is to say that nobody should be forcing anything on each other, whatever it is.

You won't catch me in a church, or with a cross around my neck. But I'd bet you are more in agreement with Jesus than you think.

reply to post by badmedia


Actually do believe strongly in miracles - and have always been christlike in my actions - and also persecuted and scapegoated. It is in my nature, it is not learned from a book.

Originally posted by HulaAnglers
reply to post by badmedia

 

Actually do believe strongly in miracles - and have always been christlike in my actions - and also persecuted and scapegoated. It is in my nature, it is not learned from a book.

I also did not learn it from a book. But I seen what I learned and know repeated by Jesus etc. I also don't include Paul at all.

Don't really disagree with you. What you do is what matters most.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by moocowman

 

God wrote the bible, it's just who God is that people are a little askew on, but there is no doubt it was written by men...opps...did I give it away?

Serve one another, that's what any body does, the same way your cells serve your body. All we are is bigger cells in a bigger body, the body OF THE LIVING GOD.

In the words of Ali G. "Respect"

There's no WHO to god dude, god was a figment of the imagination of the men who knocked the bible together.

I hear your hints at a "Universal mind" type thing, but am trying to stay on topic, which basically is Christianity is based on lies and perpetuates lies in order to sustain its own delusion, and crap on my front lawn.

O.K. WHO are you then? Are you a figment of the Imagination? Do you tear down the book to get at men or God? I, in no way am hinting at anything. I say it strait up, we are God not a "universal mind". You judge daily or do you blame that on God, if so, look no further then yourself. You are unhappy with yourself my friend, not God nor Christians.

It's like being angry at a child, but yelling at the child and treating them rash will in no way solve the problem because they don't understand, it will only turn the child into the image of you, who will then in turn, do the same thing to their children. Do you want to solve the problem or add to it? Only you can make that choice. You think indirectly calling them "crap" is going to quench their fire? You're fighting fire with fire and that is a loose loose situation.

I understand your frustration, I mean that, but you are choosing a battle that will help no one. You think your wisdom, spoken in anger, is going to turn them to see the truth, you are sadly mistaken. You say you don't like what Christians do, but I don't see those things you don't like being brought up, because in frustration you are attacking individuals, not Christianity. Are you mad at the church fathers, or at the councils, or at the buildings, or at the Idol's, or the bible? I don't see you bringing points to the table other then your emotions and personal dislikes. Remember they are people, just like you...no different, so when they or their beliefs are attacked, they will defend themselves. They feel that they are doing good and freeing people and I'm sure that is what you would like to do also for them, but your emotions are making any points you have completely invalid. While you may attract others who will also pour out their emotions and stand behind your points, you are doing nothing in love, but instead seek war with these people. How does that show them they are being fooled? How does that teach them anything but anger? All it does is solidify that they are being persecuted and add to the delusion.

See them as people who need help first, with out labeling them, the same as you would like. Show them by leading calmly, not destroying because they will not follow strangers. Truth always comes to light because, it can not be hidden. I mean no disrespect to you honestly, but I say to you, see what the real problem is, because it is not the people who seek good regardless of what they call themselves, it is the delusion of religion, the "veil" over their eyes. They themselves should know what true and undefiled religion is..."to loose every bond of wickedness, to cloth the naked, to feed the poor, to even forgo their own flesh to the benefit of those in need". That is God's definition and I don't see to many men doing it including myself.

We walk one step at a time, not in giant leaps. Try walking with them, by being who they are trying to preach to you and I promise you will win favor in their eyes, so that the real truth is proclaimed living and not a deluded message of a dead idol given them by corrupt leaders. Don't think they will not feel the burn, for they Judge themselves out of their own mouths, it is nothing you have to worry about, only have compassion. Nothing defeats them more, then being what they preach and in doing so, lifts them up into the truth so that none are lost.

Peace to you Friend

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Thanks, a sensible thought provoking post and I must admit you're correct in that emotions are running high.

Clearly where I'm coming from is either misunderstood by some because of my language or deliberately twisted by some in order to avoid dealing with the issue that I raise, or deflect attention from it.

It would appear from my language that I attack Christianity, given the fact that trying to reason with christianity has been fruitless, then perhaps given the subject matter, ie Christianities prescribed insistence on the interference with other peoples lives. Then at this moment in time I can reason that my attack is justified.

I have not at any time deliberately attempted to attack any individuals, yes I more or less dump all Christians into one barrel ie those that believe that the bible are written by the finger of god, and that they are in agreement with the prescriptions in the scriptures.

The topic of the thread is basically assertion that nothing has ever been written by the finger of a god whatever name this god chooses to go by.

The reason that I raise this issue is, to ask the question of those that prescribe to the belief that the bibles (whichever one an individual chooses to use) where do they get the authority to interfere with my life or dictate how me and my family should live.

Once again to make myself clear, I'm not asking those xtians that don't choose to act upon the dictates of the various bibles scriptures, only those that insist that the bibles to be written by the finger of god and would dictate how I should live my life.

The gay and misogyny issues have been raised over and over,and it would appear that many xtians use the unproven authority of the bibles( ie that which clearly was not written by the finger of any gods) to justify their insistence on dictating how others, (potentially me or my family) should conduct their lives.


So, using the gay, misogyny and a hint toward slavery topics I have tried to ask some very simple questions of people who prescribe to a very complicated belief system, which in some cases operates like a cult.

I am currently a heterosexual male, I say currently as it would appear that xtians are insistent, that homosexuality is a choice.
So I would ask the xtians (those that believe without evidence the bibles were written by the finger of a god), if I or one of my children decided to become gay, what right have they to prevent me from doing so ?

Indeed if I or one of my family chose to have a same sex marriage ( civil partnership) what right and by who's authority would they endeavor to prevent me from doing so ?


The prevailing public answer by Christianity (those who would choose to act in this manner) to this question has been, the bible and that of the jesusgod.

Logically, as nothing has been proven to be written by the finger of any god then xtian reasoning behind their instance on dictating how others should live their lives is deeply flawed.

Once again I will patiently point out I am only addressing those xtians that believe their prescribed attitude toward others were written by the finger of a god.


Needless to say, when we have books by unknown authors in circulation that contain passages that command the reader to for example put to death certain types of human beings. It is only reasonable to demand that these passages be removed, especially so if the readers of said books would distance themselves from the passages or doctrines in question .


If however xtians can definitively prove that the bibles and or their doctrines were indeed written by the finger of a god, then this would put a different tilt on the discussion and warrant a different discussion.

reply to post by moocowman


To me, it is so sad how everything gets interpreted. How so very black and white we think! We are not victims, but are volunteers. We limit ourselves and hence deeper meanings.

We have the ones on the left that denounce the Bible entirely along with God. Then we have the group on the right that worships its book and even tries to hold its God accountable to it.

Both are extremes, and both are wrong, and miss the mark.

Where is the middle ground? In this space we may actually find the truth!

reply to post by moocowman

So, using the gay, misogyny and a hint toward slavery topics I have tried to ask some very simple questions of people who prescribe to a very complicated belief system, which in some cases operates like a cult.

So, you are really asking the wrong ones, aren't you?

Why do they have so much power over you?

Is religion...God to you? If not, why give them the power?

WHO should you be addressing your feelings to? Science? Will that work? It will only leave you empty!

Don't you think that you should take your deepest thoughts and inclinations straight to a God of your understanding? NOT theirs? Why give THEIR understanding of God so much power?

Just because they label God with their attributes assigned to Him, does not make HIM so!!!

Why not ask the question instead:

"What does God mean to you, and how has He personally worked in YOUR life?"....No scripture please! Just personal account.

I know many homosexuals/heterosexuals who ARE connected to God, and religion has nothing to do with it! So what's stopping you?

[edit on 13-1-2009 by MatrixProphet]

Hey ya Moo ...guess your bored eh ....or you are just craving attention again ...or maybe you just missed our company (LOL) ....poor Moo ...so engrossed with what the evil christians do and say that you cant even get any sleep due to the impact they have on your life ...your concience is bothering you that badly again that you just had to start another one of those evil christian threads to make your own concience feel better ..And of course your returning evil with evil ..by judging those who judge you ? >>have you not ever heard ..two wrongs do not make a right >?
Come on Moo ...get over it ......and go on with your life ..surely there are more pressing matters you need to concern yourself with ?



The only thing on this thread that I personally want to add to this (another endless antichristian thread) ...is ....
The only thing that was written by the finger of God ..are the ten commandments ...those stone tablets are supposedly in the Ark Of the Covenant along with the rod of Moses .......which I believe is still around somewhere ...someone has it hidden ..(possibly the Jews) and will bring it out possibly when a new Jewish temple gets built (Of course that is just my opinion ) .They wont be able to do their rituals without it ....so they either have it or they know where it is ...

If God created all that we see ...including giving us breath(Life) then I have no doubt that he could have written something with his fingers ..(nothing is impossible with God ) ..........

Have a nice day ...

reply to post by checkers

Enough of this crap lie that we've had shoved in our faces since we were kids. MY take on religion is that it's just wrong! It goes against the ability to think for ourselves."Cause the bible says so" isn't a logical reason to believe anything. I just follow my own belief that if I treat others well, then I will be treated the same. It's a FACT that more people have died in the name of their god than any other reason in history! You christians always point your fingers at everyone, but should be pointing them at yourselves.


There are only two things I truly own in my life, my balls, and my word. I don't break them for anyone! Being agnostic, I do believe in a higher power. Not some guy with a white beard watching the earth and handing down tests for everyone. The fact that christians have a picture of a white jesus hanging on their walls proves to me how arrogant and lost you all truly are. If jesus was from what's now known as Isreal, shouldn't he have some kind of tanned skin? If not he must have created the worlds fist sun block 2000+ years ago. Nothing racist about that statement, just COMMON SENSE!!!

I asked my born again christian uncle the following question and he had no reply: "You believe that if I don't accept jesus as my lord and savior I go to hell right?" he said yes, then I followed with this"So what about the tribes in the Amazon or deep Africa who have never heard of a jesus or even a book? Do they go to hell because they're not in the know?" Should these people who live simple, peacful lives, who don't judge others and keep to themselves be punished? Not a word from that guy!

I have no problem with peoples beliefs as long as they don't affect others. One's that preach about peace and being good, thoughtful people. The majority of you religious types follow a system of "If you don't believe what I believe in then we will A:try our hardest to make you conform or, B: Destroy you and all you're followers. ( cough...George Bush Jr...cough)

Go Lakers!

2000 yrs ago the roman empire was shrinking and they where panicking at how Christianity was taking over, so they took over Christianity and moved it from Jerusalem to Rome and made Rome the new holiest place on earth and made the pope the leader of the church... they then went out and killed anyone who didn't worship the roman Christianity... i myself see the pope as the anti christ..i see catholics with pictures of the pope in there homes with shrines to him...i thought worshiping false idols was banned....

If people REALLY beleved that the 10 comandments were written BY GOD, don't you think they would not be breaking them almost daily like most Christians do?

reply to post by Simplynoone


Hi, SN quite an acid response there nice to see you to, hope you're well and had a good xmas.

The only thing that was written by the finger of God ..are the ten commandments ...those stone tablets are supposedly in the Ark Of the Covenant along with the rod of Moses .......which I believe is still around somewhere ...someone has it hidden

So whatever war alleged to have been written by a god kinda got lost or were hidden away ? Hm sounds a little like Joseph Smith.

If you choose to believe this SN, great whatever makes you happy your beliefs are yours and mine are my own. I don't recall you personally trying to force your beliefs on me and I hope that I have extended you the same courtesy.

Nevertheless we are still at square one with nothing written by a god and still no evidence of the authority that many xtians claim, justifies their attempts to interfere in the lives of others who do not believe the same thing.