Written by the finger of god? What was ?

reply to post by MatrixProphet

Yes, I saw that interview! I am not a proponent of Dawkins (he has issues too) but I can agree with him in this video. He had a very hard time with those people and could not keep the sneer off his face!

What I find most interesting (or perhaps scary) is that there have been so many xtian posters here screaming "we're not like that" but when pushed on why they believe the things they do and how they justify their beliefs they inevitably drift into the same illogical mindset as the above.


I personally know some very pleasant people, who happen to be xtians until they open their mouths in relation to the jesusgod, they appear to be living no different a life than anyone else ie. I can't say that I would see a marked improvement in my own life should I choose to emulate them, after all xtians get divorced at the same rate as anyone else etc.


What is apparent here on ATS, is the marked different between the UK and US in relation to religious beliefs. Very few of the UK general public actually give a crap about the jesusgod and the bible they're simply not relevant in life. Evidence of this is borne out in the amount of places of worship that have shut up shop or are only used by a handful.

It would also appear that the rise of political correctness along with atheism (although I think atheism is just coming out of the closet, as apposed to rising) is demanding that the religious think about how their beliefs impact others, hiding behind "Faith" simply will not do anymore.


As far as I'm concerned, labeling someone a "Sinner" or "evil" is equally as ignorant as using the "N" word. There again, is it not a sign of how uninvolved we are as a species when I have to type "the N word" when we all know what it means ?
How many words will we have to remove from our vocabulary (only to be replaced with others) before we realize that we give the meaning to words ?

Is it not time to ask ourselves some big questions about ourselves? To my mind one of the most important questions is, where does religion get off on telling others how to live.

Good soldiers follow orders to their death without question, good parents set examples in living wanting to be questioned.









[edit on 20-1-2009 by moocowman]

reply to post by moocowman


"Good soldiers follow orders to their death without question"

Even Unconstitutional orders?

Even orders to shoot civilians?

Even orders to torture?

Even order that contravene the Geneva Conventions and Nuremberg Laws?

*I assume you have never served in the military.... I recommend you Read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights immediately.

I paraphrase: '[evil/stupid] soldiers follow orders to their death without question'

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by moocowman

 

"Good soldiers follow orders to their death without question"

Even Unconstitutional orders?

Even orders to shoot civilians?

Even orders to torture?

Even order that contravene the Geneva Conventions and Nuremberg Laws?

*I assume you have never served in the military.... I recommend you Read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights immediately.

I paraphrase: '[evil/stupid] soldiers follow orders to their death without question'

Where exactly did I say "US" Soldiers, or in fact specify military ?
It would be fruitless to list countless of incidents of "good soldiers" soldiers following orders " Even orders to ---"


Please don't quote me out of context .

How many people have acted upon the orders "Kill them all let god decide " ?

reply to post by moocowman


"Where exactly did I say "US" Soldiers, or in fact specify military ? "

You think the Geneva Conventions only apply to "US" soldiers?

How about the Nuremberg Laws - Do they also only apply to "US" soldiers?

*Also, No where in my post did I even say "US soldiers".

"Please don't quote me out of context . " - I didn't.

(But I assume that dishonest statement will be how you rationalize putting words in my mouth and replying to things I didn't even say...)

Cheers!

[edit on 20-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by moocowman


"How many people have acted upon the orders "Kill them all let god decide " ?"

Please tell us, how many?

In any case; Religion is not the 'cause of' - it is an 'Excuse to...'

*It helps people rationalize away their transgressions against humanity.

'Rationalizing' is worse than religion, by your logic. And whilst it is a survival mechanism, it has been promoted in our culture as it was in others that came before - Religion is just a tool to aid in this process of Rationalizing away the worst acts and injustices. It is not the cause - it is just another tool for control and manipulation.


Cheers!

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by moocowman

 

"Where exactly did I say "US" Soldiers, or in fact specify military ? "

You think the Geneva Conventions only apply to "US" soldiers?

How about the Nuremberg Laws - Do they also only apply to "US" soldiers?

*Also, No where in my post did I even say "US soldiers".

"Please don't quote me out of context . " - I didn't.

(But I assume that dishonest statement will be how you rationalize putting words in my mouth and replying to things I didn't even say...)

Cheers!

[edit on 20-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Duh ? So how many at the Nuremberg trials put they're hand up and said "I wasn't following orders I did it for kicks"?

Come on your being unnecessarily pedantic !

Soldiers of any variety be it military or religious or anything else, that follow orders without question are considered by those who give the orders good soldiers period.

reply to post by moocowman


"Come on your being unnecessarily pedantic ! "

You are projecting again!

Nice try though!

"Soldiers of any variety be it military or religious or anything else, that follow orders without question are considered by those who give the orders good soldiers period."

Wrong.

You have never served - that much is obvious.

Cheers!

reply to post by Exuberant1


So can you prove that I'm wrong ?

Here's one definition of an alleged good soldier

“And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.” (IITim2:2-4).

How about Peter Sutcliff the Yorkshire Ripper, he claimed God told him to kill 13 prostitutes, which is pretty in keeping to the bible. Could Sutcliff be considered a good soldier ?

[edit on 20-1-2009 by moocowman]

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by MatrixProphet

 

What I find most interesting (or perhaps scary) is that there have been so many xtian posters here screaming "we're not like that" but when pushed on why they believe the things they do and how they justify their beliefs they inevitably drift into the same illogical mindset as the above.

Well, they are protecting their whole entire belief system. It is one that is bored through them to their very soul. I had to let go of virtually everything I believed in to get where I am today (spiritually). It was NOT easy. I had to leave family behind because I "left the faith." But I had too many questions and too few answers that worked for me.

Remember! Religion IS GOD to them!

What is apparent here on ATS, is the marked different between the UK and US in relation to religious beliefs. Very few of the UK general public actually give a crap about the jesusgod and the bible they're simply not relevant in life. Evidence of this is borne out in the amount of places of worship that have shut up shop or are only used by a handful.

Actually, you cannot go by the super structures of Christianity here in the U.S. They are few and far between. Many churches are being turned into Elk Halls, shops etc.

It would also appear that the rise of political correctness along with atheism (although I think atheism is just coming out of the closet, as apposed to rising) is demanding that the religious think about how their beliefs impact others, hiding behind "Faith" simply will not do anymore.

Yes, I agree but this also needs to apply to any group that thinks they Know it all. Take the temperature of a few atheists and you can feel their rage. Dawkins himself says that he feels hostile when God is considered to exist. He is not keeping it on an academic level, at all. He is also letting his emotions get the better of him.

Many of us have been the brunt of the fanatical Christian soldier!

Is it not time to ask ourselves some big questions about ourselves? To my mind one of the most important questions is, where does religion get off on telling others how to live.

Well, if you read any of my threads you should be able to see that I do indeed question! I am considered a false prophet by many if not most Christians on ATS. Questioning, defying, and denying, carry with it - animosity.

I have conviction! I will rock the boat!

reply to post by moocowman


"Could Sutcliff be considered a good soldier ? "

*Was he even enlisted in the military?


In any case, you know the answer to your question. Nice try.


Cheers!

Regarding John 8 : 6-8....What did Jesus write with His finger? "Thou art weighed in the balances and found wanting", just as the finger of the Logos had written long before in the banquet hall in Babylon when that world power was about to be overthrown by the Medes and Persians. Soon after this, The Nation of Israel was to be overthrown by the world Power of Ancient Rome.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by moocowman

 

"Could Sutcliff be considered a good soldier ? "

*Was he even enlisted in the military?


In any case, you know the answer to your question. Nice try.


Cheers!

So your answer is yes ? Sutcliff could be a good soldier. Well I suppose he could be a good soldier for god, plenty of those have been about.
How would he qualify ? Well lets see, god spoke to him not unlike moses and god told him to kill some sinners, again not unlike moses. he followed the orders of god without question, not unlike moses.

There are currently armies of western soldiers in Iraq, given the fact that for them to be able to kill other people they require orders. If they didn't carry out those orders, then they cannot be of any use to their commanders, obviously they would not be very "good" soldiers at all would they ?

reply to post by moocowman


You didn't answer my question....

Was he enlisted in the military?

(yes or no)

reply to post by MatrixProphet

Actually, you cannot go by the super structures of Christianity here in the U.S. They are few and far between. Many churches are being turned into Elk Halls, shops etc.

I don't know what an Elk Hall is but I pissed myself laughing at that.
Do you foresee a further fragmentation of xtianity, as it tries to justify any relevance it believes it has? It would appear that it can no longer hide behind biblical authority as younger people seem to be accepting the bible for what it really is, BS, or at the very least challenging it intellectually.

Never the less. The 10 commandments is a very clever law to fallow. Maybe not to easy for a sinner of lust to obey,but never the less a clever law.

I dont reckon a lot of you people ever could imagine how Moses got the message. To know that you need more clever knowledge.

But i guess knowledge also can be used as one word against another. So who is right and who is wrong!

Who here was there to see what Moses really did. Who are we to judge what happened. Who are we to judge if he didn't get a inspiration from God.

The facts are that Moses did live.

The fact is that the 10 commandments where written.

The fact is! If you fallow the 10 commandments you would save your self and others from a lot of grief.

Not a bad inspiration if you ask me.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by checkers


yeah thats right edify your choice of drug addiction. its called self re-enforced dellusion, its why theres war basicly. but i forgive you if it helps anything

wow.. another thread to get those ATS points again...and trying to figure out God without the author's interpretation is even worse!

Pathetic..

Originally posted by moocowman
So, we were led to believe since being little children that the 10 commandments and even the bibles themselves were written by the finger of god.

Christians stand on their soap boxes, screaming at the world trying to dictate how everyone should conduct themselves, according to what were written by “The finger of god” and when we ask the deluded Christian why we should believe the nonsense they continuingly spew from their mouths, the reply is always “look in the bible” it’s right there written by the finger of god”.

So we look in the bibles and what do we find? Well Moses went up a mountain leaving the sheeple at the bottom, he returns to them after he had a chat with a god and moses told the sheeple what the god had to say. Moses even went to the trouble of writing down in a book, what the god had to say, not as though the sheeple would have known what was written in this book as they would mostly have been illiterate.

The mountain god was supposed to have written something itself, with its’ very own finger on some stone tables/tablets, but was obviously not omniscient enough to have foreseen moses breaking them whilst throwing his toys out of the pram, when he learned of his brother and the sheeple worshiping bull and not the mountain god.

So what did moses end up with that was written by the god ?
Nothing! Zilch Nada, Zero.

Nothing was written by Yahwe/,Jehova / El shaddai/ Jesus or whatever you want to call it

Nothing

Christians please stop lying to the children! God wrote nothing, you have been lied to!

The facts are that Moses did live.

Are you sure? You are basing that on one book which has been composed and molested with repeatedly over the course of 2000 years. If we really want to be truthful then the general consensus is that Jesus didn't actually exist but was a figure created purely for the benefit of the reader - where is your supporting evidence to the contrary?

The fact is that the 10 commandments where written.

Written where? In a corrupted 'holy' book or on those tablets which were destroyed before anyone else could see them?

The fact is! If you fallow the 10 commandments you would save your self and others from a lot of grief.

Some of them are just common sense and decency: do not kill - well yes, obviously I don't need the tooth fairy to tell me that. The others: do not make idols out of anything, worship me only, no other gods, blablabla... will only land me or anyone else grief from the cultists themselves if we chose not to do as they say.

All in all, after pages of this rubbish back and forth argument there is no proof of god or that he, himself ever made himself known to anyone except to psychopathic, murdering cultists like Moses (if the character even existed in the 'real' world).

I apologise humbly if that offends anyone's sensibilities but in the cold light of day that is how it is... unless of course you have something, then please don't beat around the (burning) bush and enlighten us.



[edit on 21-1-2009 by Goathief]

reply to post by Komodo

wow.. another thread to get those ATS points again...and trying to figure out God without the author's interpretation is even worse! Pathetic..

WOW !! Another personal attack how out of the ordinary.
Yes gotta get those points dude, need a new toaster.

Tell you what see if I can gets some points deducted to keep you happy eh !


Who the hell is trying to figure out god ? That's like trying to figure out fairies..

Authors' interpretation ? Your welcome to supply us with the authors interpretation, can't harm to have a billionth opinion.

Thanks for your intelligent participation in the thread, you're obviously an xtian then?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by moocowman

 

You didn't answer my question....

Was he enlisted in the military?

(yes or no)

who dude ?