I’m Sick Of The Pro Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!

reply to post by Sahabi


i would like to think that our creator hates war

reply to post by VinceP1974


i believe international bankers and the military complex are the cause of 90 percent of the misery in this world

Originally posted by VinceP1974
could have fooled me. You got the HAMAS talking points down hook line and sinker.
You side with an Islamic Supremacist Jihadi Group. They torture and slaughter anyone who is not them. Lets not pretend we're defending equals. You are defending the most evil force on the planet today.

The difference here is I am trying to make a statement the killing of women and children is wrong on both sides . Because I disagree with the situation at hand and feel the treatment and retaliation is heavy handed I am siding with Hamas . I try to look at things from a different point of view and try to make my own mind up from facts . Instead of quoting from the official rhetoric of the Israeli Government. The expression of disgust at the killing non combatants by both sides is siding with hamas?

Originally posted by VinceP1974
There was no farming! THe land was completely devasted. I dont remember the details of this exactly but i think i remember reading that the landowners were not the local arabs anyway. they were turks or people from other areas of the old caliphate.

Before the Jews came back, the Land of Israel was dead.

There have been people living in this area since biblical times there has ALWAYS been some form of habitation there herding or farming

Originally posted by VinceP1974
The Palestinians are brutalized by their own side to turn them into Jew Killers.

Here I agree with you . The situation is breeding hopelessness, When people are destitute hopeless and have no future they are very easy to fall to a ideology that is self destructive. But I am certain the average person wants peace. At times I really believe neither sides political organizations really want peace .

Originally posted by VinceP1974
Before Zionism, the entire area was desoluate. No one lived there in any significant number. There was no unique ethnicity or nationalialiy of "Palestinian"

Originally posted by VinceP1974
There were no homes! No one lived there! Not until the Jews moved tehre did a lot of Arabs move there.

I really have a hard time believing in the area now considered Israel there were no homes and people living there . That seems contrary to my readings area of which the state of Israel now occupies . Are you referring to certain geographical areas with in Israel ? As for no Palestinian as a Nationality you are correct it appears it is a banding of of the tribal peoples who never recognized authority out side their tribal groups the conflict forged a Ethnic tribal unity that really was not there before . Well not since Saladin united the whole area against the king of Jerusalem. From what I understand that was the last time some of these people banded together under a common goal.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
The Pre-Islamic civilizations from Morocco to Indonesia probably thought the same as you. They're gone now. And all that is there is scores of clitoris mutilators and desert and getting on your knees 5 times and day and chanting Allah is Greatest.

I agree the female genital mutilation is wrong . That is a side issue but the practice is in India ( Hindus) Bangladesh ect and many places in Africa which is cultural there long before Muslims and in fact the Muslim Kurds In Iraqi have one of the highest rates of it . I am not well versed in the Koran but have read the practice is more of a cultural practice than a religious need.

The practice of Of male circumcision Which many parts of the world is consider male genital mutilation it was brought to you by your local rabbis.

Hacking at a persons genitals for religious reasons is barbaric and inhumane!

IF you consider this the average family has 2-6 kids on both sides . If you kill non combatants you spread the hate exponentially You kill a mom dad sibling aunt or uncle you may create 2 from one family plus add the 1or 2 from all the cousins families and it keeps growing. The more innocents killed the more it breeds more Jew haters or Palestinian haters . The next generation of Palestinian haters and the next generation of Jew haters is born with every attack of the camps and every rocket fired into a non combatant zone . There has to be a way to break this cycle besides wiping out a people tribal or not .

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Novus - very eloquent, and sums up for me why my gut turns and I want to smash the TV or radio every time an Israeli justifying their actions.

Case in point: the recent shelling of the school, killing many kids. Israel justifies this by saying that Hamas were firing mortars from the school. Even if this were true (it appears not, according to the UN representative who was there), how can any military force sanction the bombing of civilians? This cannot be in any way justified. Never ever ever. To do so places Israel on the same level as any terrorist regime.

Lets now get some lawyers onto the Israeli leadership and put them away for war crimes. It works both ways.

What bothers me are the posters that claim that condemning Israel for their actions is equivalent to being anti-Semitic, or being anti-Jewish, more accurately.
Here is a link that shows how ridiculous that argument is:
www.middle-east-online.com...

Ultra-Orthodox Jews protest Israel's Gaza offensive


Members of Jewish Neturei Karta faction wave placards reading ‘Stop the Zionist terrorist massacre in Gaza.’


JERUSALEM - Dozens of black-clad ultra-Orthodox Jews belonging to an l anti-Zionist faction on Wednesday protested against Israel's deadly 12-day-old offensive on the Gaza Strip.

Some 40 members of the Neturei Karta faction gathered in the centre of the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhood of Mea Shearim in occupied Jerusalem, waving placards reading "Stop the Zionist terrorist massacre in Gaza."

The protestors also shouted "We are against the Zionist government!" and shrieked "Gevald!" -- a Yiddish term for "Help!"

Neturei Karta is a Jewish group opposed to the Zionist movement and the Jewish state, which they believe must not exist before the coming of the Messiah.

Israel launched a massive air and ground offensive against the Gaza Strip on December 27 which has killed 689 Palestinians and wounded more than 3,000.

Palestinians have fired hundreds of rockets at southern Israel during the same period, killing four people. Six Israeli soldiers have also been killed in combat in Gaza.

About 10,000 Israelis in Tel Aviv – who are not part of the Neturei Karta Jewish group – had recently protested against the Israeli attacks against Gaza.

According to the Israeli peace group Gush Shalom, “conducting war in the world's most thickly populated area (Gaza) condemns the (Israeli) soldiers to become war criminals.”

“Those who sent soldiers to conduct intensive warfare in the world's most thickly inhabited area knew well in advance that the undoubted result would be a bloodbath, the killing of civilians, children and adults, whole families buried under the ruins of their homes,” read a statement by Gush Shalom.

“The (Israeli) government dooms a whole generation of young Israelis to become, quite literally, war criminals – except for those who are themselves killed by the artillery shells which are supposed to protect them,” the statement added.

It's rather hard to call orthodox Jews anti-Jewish.

reply to post by VinceP1974


Party A is a lot bigger and a lot stronger than party B though mate. Have you seen the size of palestine on a map?

If you has a bow and arrow, would you confront a tank 'toe to toe' with your bow and arrow? Or would you use hit and run tactics?

Not really a tough one.

spikey

I could not agree more. A teacher of mine, a very strict one, once warned me "You become what you hate". This rings truer and truer as time passes. Some people just never learn.

snipped out by me - don't want to be labeled for speaking the truth about a bunch of terrorists.

[edit on 1/8/2009 by venom79x]

This article pretty much sums it up...

www.blacklistednews.com...

zionist = bloodthirsty in God's name.

BBC Media War...

What is Really Happening

I watched BBC World News for a timed hour yesterday. In that time I saw:
Pro-Israeli (including US government) speakers - 17
Pro-Palestinian speakers - 2

Mentions of Hamas Rockets as reason for war - 37
Mentions of illegal Israeli settlements - 0
Mentions of Palestinians killed by Israel during "ceasefire" - 2
Mentions of Sderot - 12
Mentions Sderot used to be Palestinian - 0

If you don't believe me, try it yourself.

www.craigmurray.org.uk...

Click here for more information.

I've been away from ATS, and I've definitely been staying away from these Palestine threads.

But I'll just sum up a few things from what I've gathered.

Israel is definitely losing the public relations war. The other day they bombed the heck out of a UN school and killed 30 or so people. But on the news reels, the Israeli public relations dummies call it an "institution" - I suppose the word "school" was too real for them.

Now they're pushing the ground offensive deeper into Gaza, and no doubt the army generals that came in and reluctantly forced the Israeli settlers out a few years ago would be feeling that they're doing the "right" thing this time around.

I could go on, but in short, I think you'll find the right winger Christians are the only ones standing by Israel (oh, and the evangelicals that think it's yet another end times sign) so steadfastly.

But until the UN can actually do something, they're going to have free reign.

Israel could have possibly unleashed something beyond their control this time if this thing turns regional and embroils the wider Middle East.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


In reply to the map shown by the OP, I suggest reading the truth about it there, quite informative:

weblogs.asp.net...


[edit on 8-1-2009 by david27p]

reply to post by david27p


How is that informative? We're all aware that the British owned the land. We're all aware that there was a war between Palestinians and Jews. We're all aware that Egypt, Jordan, and Syria declared war on Israel.

The clearly biased source you provided us gives us no information that we did not already know.

When you look at the map, whether the UN plan came in to play or not is actually irrelevant. What is relevant is how Israel suddenly gained control of that vast amount of land without any say from the Palestinians. That's the crime here, and that is why the Palestinians are pissed off.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi



So what difference does it make now that all of the Palestinans are dead? Who are they are they from one of the tribes? That tribe must die or something. I remember reading some website that brought all the prophecies together. All the arab princes or whoever the hell they are are being directed by this prophecy which is written out. I think they have a bunch of maps too from when they planned this out. All this was planned thousands of years ago by the princes. These princes must be the opposite bloodline to "?" . . . ok this what I don't get who were the Jews before they were known as Jews?

And really why name a price of real estate "Israel"


So I don't follow prophecies but after all the Palestians are dead what's next on the map? Can't we just say this is part of the NEW WORLD ORDER. Jim Marrs could be the narrator. The middle east is going to be like the EU. Another United Nation. And the funny thing is the Jews are also holding on to their own prophecies and maps. So what are they planning? Are they planning on taking over the middle east for themselves? You know none of these palestianians signed up for "citizionship".

THERE WILL BE WAR


Who do you think will win? That dude Israel or the Arab Prince pact?

reply to post by mattguy404

I've been away from ATS, and I've definitely been staying away from these Palestine threads

Welcome back. It's always great to get the new perspective of someone. Happy posting.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


The land never belonged to the Palestinians. Ever. Gaza and Sinai belonged to Egypt. The West Bank belonged to Syria. The Golan Heights belonged to Lebanon. And the rest of Israel belonged to Britain and before them the Ottomans. Jews were entitled to the initial land they got because not only had it been theirs historically, but when they returned, they purchased a lot of the land, and the areas where they purchased land were given to them as a dinky little country when the British withdrew. And in 1967, when Syria, Jordan, and Egypt (and others) attacked Israel on a fast day, and Israel proceeded to kick their a**, Israel acquired the Golan Heights, the West Bank, Gaza, and Sinai. And then Egypt and Jordan (in an act of sheer brilliance on their part) refused to take back Gaza and the West Bank because they didn't want to deal with the Palestinians. And Israel withdrew from Gaza and tried dealing with Arafat to give back the West Bank, and it got attacked following both.

By the way, where did you get those maps claiming that Gaza and the West Bank belonged to the Palestinians until 1967? That's really just not true. That's not even a "half-lie." That's just a straight out lie. You can even tell that that those maps are just a map of Israel that has been edited with a basic paint program because of its representation of the Golan Heights.

I'm getting bored now, when's Iran gonna up the anti?

im sorry but if you think ats is pro Israel than you aren't reading the home page or any other!!for sure you are just reading and interpreting what you want to see and read

i was just going to post the exact opposite!!