I’m Sick Of The Pro Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!

The history of Zionism is completely unfair against the Palestinians and goes against the prophecies of Jewish faith. Not a sermon; just a reminder:

Once again, there is unrest in the Middle East. Once again, we read shocking headlines. The Zionist-Palestinian conflict is one long chain of tragedies and bloodshed. Residential neighborhoods have been transformed into war zones, and there seems to be no hope for a lasting peace.

Our members and readers have long known our position; nevertheless, in the present circumstances we will once again restate it clearly. The Zionist ideology is antithetical to the Torah. Zionism was devised to replace the Torah and its commandments with empty nationalism and power. Jews believe that the redemption of the Jews will come only through G-d, and then there will be peace for the entire world. Zionists believe only in the power of their hands: a physical, artificial redemption.

It is therefore self-understood that the State of Israel has zero connection with Jews or Judaism. We, Orthodox Jews, did not make the state. We show our disasssociation from it by not participating in its elections or accepting its financial benefits. Therefore, we bear no responsibility for the states actions.

Just as Jews would not be held responsible in a conflict between North Korea and South Korea, Jews should not be held responsible for the Zionists decisions and conflicts. The State of Israel has as much to do with Jews and Judaism as does China or Mongolia.

Orthodox Jews tell the world: WE ARE NOT ZIONISTS. The Zionists are not our representatives or spokesmen. They have no right to speak in the name of Jewry. It is a terrible mistake to confuse Jews with Zionists. We wish to live in peace with all the nations. We pray for our Jewish brethren and non-Jews in the Middle East, that they should be saved from all misfortunes and danger. And most of all, we await that great day when G-ds glory will be revealed in the entire world, and there will be peace for all of humanity.

Source: www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

But on the other hand, after the British Mandate was imposed on Palestine after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the poverty stricken area was initially grateful for the influx of money and know-how that came in with the immigrating Jews. Moderate Muslim leaders looked forward to the new economic synergy. Unfortunately, one person instigated to stop this harmony from developing. That was Mohammad Amin al-Husayni. He opposed the immigration and instigated riots and terrorism against the immigrating Jews. His anti-Jewry was so strong that he had all moderate Muslim leaders assassinated. Later, he was to align himself with Hitler and even was present for the Final Solution conference. This figurehead set in motion the current state and mentality of the Palestinian. (His nephew took over the task, ie., Arafat and continued the same tactics.)

...al-Husseini consolidated his control over the Palestinian Arabs with a campaign of murder against Jews and non-compliant Arabs, the recruitment of armed militias, and the raising of funds from around the Muslim world using anti-Jewish propaganda. In 1937 the Grand Mufti expressed his solidarity with Germany, asking the Nazi Third Reich to oppose establishment of a Jewish state, stop Jewish immigration to Palestine, and provide arms to the Arab population. Following an assassination attempt on the British Inspector-General of the Palestine Police Force and the murder by Arab extremists of Jews and moderate Arabs, the Arab Higher Committee was declared illegal by the British. The Grand Mufti lost his office of President of the Supreme muslim Council...

According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin...

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

* The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution. The Mufti was never tried because the Allies were afraid of the storm in the Arab world if the hero of Arab nationalism was treated as a war criminal.

From Egypt al-Husseini was among the sponsors of the 1948 war against the new State of Israel.

www.palestinefacts.org...

More on the history of the "Grand Mufti Nazi":

Mufti Amin al-Husseini allied with Hitler
www.youtube.com...

So the whole issue has been politicized by both side. Unfortunately, it's the common people of both sides that are being used as pawns of their leaders and suffer the most.



[edit on 6/1/2009 by Matrix1111]

Who are the Zionists? Make a list of all their names please. It's important to be able to obtain these people's names and account for every single one of them. That way we can distribute these lists throughout the world then round them up and throw a welcome back party for Jesus. Since their so in touch with each other. Hey doesn't the Vatican have a ballroom?

This thread is just as dumb as the other one. All I see are opportunists; people who want to jump on any opportunity to hate one another. Isn't the lesson of the day that two wrongs don't make a right?

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Who said anything about Palistinians? Hammas is the TERROR GROUP NETWORK!
Just because thier pop shots at Israel doensnt make the front page or break news doesnt mean they dont have the same casualties as the Hammas does now. HAMMAS did this NOT Palistinians or Israel.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


THe truth is this.

1st. Both sides need to relax on the freaking GOD issue

next, Isreal should defend itself..and that means ATTACK.
HOWEVER, no one can argue this simple fact...isreal is vEry excessive in all its attacks.
HOWEVER,
that does not mean that they should not do anything.

never forget.
No one likes people and children dying on any side..but you should not always pick a side (the side that is losing) and say they are right and the other side is wrong.


you fight a war, you lose, then you COMPLAIN. "oh occupied land, bla bla bla" yea its messed up..but thats the world.
you should not have tried to attack it and take it over many decades ago.

its not a matter of Pro Isreal.
its a matter of observing reality.

Originally posted by WISHADOW
reply to post by antonia

 

"And the LORD spoke unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan (Palestine); Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places. And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land.." NUMBERS 33:50-53



These questions will go unanswered.

The the Children of Israel? What about the children of Palestine or as it was Canaan? Take over the land and kill all the people it says or actually the directive is. That is what it says. Take over the land and kill them. Destroy everything. What is the purpose? Who is the directive? I am over this god illusion. Perhaps this is a slip on their part. This is a direct relation to why there are empty pyramids and ravished cities around the world. The evidence is being destroyed here and someone is making the directive but yet we are still precarious and behind times. There is obviously a presence of a command. There is the command to go and murder these people and all of what is. Now we still have Israeli's on directive and its more obvious than ever that it is by command. Again what is this overall directive from so long ago? What is the purpose? Does this land contain something we don't know about? Is there something deep under the surface we are not aware of? Maybe a person. One of those people or whatever it is you call them. Why don't we just have them form a line and show them off to the world? or whoever he is.

I wish I could of asked Hitler to bust down the doors of the Vatican. I really do. But it just seems like he had no interest at the time.

Now look we got ATS backed to a wall probably by the mystery command for being free and open. Have you seen that thread about being careful and all that? This directive is serious. They really do fear the second coming of Israel. He must be flippin off the handle all the time with his space fleet.

I love when people go digging through the bible, that they dont even understand, looking for that gotcha moment.

First of all, it's because of the bible that you even purport to care about the Gaza people. What you're exhibiting are Jewish/Christians value for life.

So it makes no sense to be so against the Bible, when it's because of it you have claim to have your problem.

There was a reason God commanded Israel to vanquish Canaan. And it wasn't for the bloodsport. And it wasn't so that the Jewish people could enslave another people or be enriched by the conquest.
Those are Islamic incentives for war.

God announces to Abraham that his distant descendants will be the ones to lead the conquest of Canaan.

Genesis 15:14 But I will execute judgment on the nation [Egypt] that they [Israelites] will serve. Afterward they will come out with many possessions. But as for you, you will go to [die] your ancestors in peace and be buried at a good old age. In the fourth generation [appx 400 years] your descendas will return here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit.”

God will command the Israelites to destroy the Amorites because of the sin of the Amoriites. Not because God is savage, but because the sin of the Amorites has become intolerable.

And in the end, the Jews never did this. They never completely conquered thier foe.

Originally posted by MrJelly
next, Isreal should defend itself..and that means ATTACK.

The same can be said about the Palestinians. They have a right to defend themselves..and that means ATTACK. Somehow, though, when Palestinians do it its a terrorist attack. When Israel does it, its self defense.

Can you see the double standard?

Originally posted by MrJelly
HOWEVER, no one can argue this simple fact...isreal is vEry excessive in all its attacks.

I would disagree. Although I am against the Israeli actions, I do not believe they are excessive. I just believe their true intentions are showing through, i.e. target civilians.

Given their military capabilities, they could easily be more excessive. I guess it is good in a way that they are not using that capability, but at the same time, their intentional lack of excessiveness keeps the leadership of Hamas alive, thus keeping the conflict going.

Maybe that's the intent. Keep the boogeyman alive to justify future plans.

Quote:



From the Orginal Poster:

"Can any of you honestly say that you would not be upset if the United Nations ripped your home country from you and gave it to someone else?"

The problem is its not just happening in israel or what has become israel today. People are getting there land taken from them all over the world not just in the middle east. As far as the land loss yea you should take a look at the land grab that took place forming what america is today starting with the land west of the mississippi river.

The problem that most people dont get is that all of what the few who think there running things its going to back fire on them soon enough. Butchering people for land though is a different matter every nation that tried this failed and israel and other nations including the country I live the united states will also fail.

Its been proven thoughout history that everytime you selectivly target a minority or a small group of people for a bigger plan you dont get what you expect. The slave trade in america is a good example or the slaughtering of the native american people I happen to be native american and you dont see me greving over the loss of the natural born real citizens of the united states.

All of what they have been doing is going to crash down on there heads soon. There's a bunch of covert agents that are tired of this nonsense thats been going on over there also the best thing you can do right now is look for all the news everyone is not covering the israel stories are a distraction ment to send people off track for the bigger issue or story taking place.

Thats the way it works. Thats all for now

Falcon

Originally posted by falcon
As far as the land loss yea you should take a look at the land grab that took place forming what america is today starting with the land west of the mississippi river.

It has been looked at, but this topic is not about Native American land so simply because it was not mentioned does not mean no one thinks that was equally as wrong. It'd be best if you didn't assume otherwise.

Just want to show my support for the original poster... great thread. The great video of the Palestinian girl standing up to a couple of Israeli war mongers along with this thread prompted me to register on ATS and spend some here. Israel's military is breaking international law, isn't it? by indiscriminately firing away into civilian territory? This is a professional military killing civilians.

THe U.S. does give the Israeli military $3 billion per year. It is a REAL army. And, from my understanding, on 11/4/08, Israel did break the cease fire by killing 6 Palestinian civilians, which in turn let to the crude, home made "rockets" being fired by Hamas, which I don't believe speaks for Palestine as a whole.

My sister introduced me to the site and said the forums are a must read. Although we laugh at some of the wild stuff, we take a lot of it seriously. I'm particularly interested in the topics brought up in the films I.O.U.S.A, Zeitgeist, Zeitgest: Addendum, Crude Impact, America: Freedom to Fascism, etc. I'm half way through John Perkins' book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, and have read a couple books on Peak Oil , The Long Emergency by Kunstler being one. Very scary stuff.

Anyway, looks like a great site with some bright people posting on current events.

Originally posted by mydarkmaterials
Although we laugh at some of the wild stuff, we take a lot of it seriously.

Don't worry. Alot of the long time posters here laugh at some of the stuff too. Some with good reason, others because of ignorance. But hey, we need some practice in debunking stuff, right?

Welcome to ATS

Obviously the Christian-Muslim-Jew and all the other belief systems are messing with our minds and causing each of us to think Earth belongs to one faction and no one else. It's the superiority complex over and over again. "My religion is better than yours." "God gave this land to us." We all practice our own form of racism or religious prejudice. Imagine if there were no religions. Wouldn't we all live without borders? I think religion is over-rated and it's time for an enlightened overhaul. That's the bottomline.

Let us all take a deep breath and see the foot holds that satan has on this world. God says love thy neighbor satan says hate.

Hate is what this all boils down to. There is NO love here no understanding, no acceptence no forgiveness no love. Only hate.

well suckers you have been pulled in hook line and sinker. Each one of you has the power to stop the hate and yet even here on this site the hate continues. Where is the hope? when will it change? how will it change? if you are right and I am right and both are unwiling to love how can their be peace?

Think about it people!!!

I agree with you Novo.

What Israel is doing in Gaza has no name... it is immoral, inhumane and barbaric.

And then the Israelites have the audacity to call the Palestines animals.

It has been 60 years of opression, terrror, annihilation, etc, being suported by our government that those Israelites have inflicted on the Palestines, while stealing from them all their lands... USA and UK have been their accomplices.

May God forgive them... I wish sometimes I was God so I could be as perfect as him and forgive those bastids, but geesh I simply can't.

And I used to say that these were the Zionist Israelites and now I just simply say Israelites because they all are allowing their government to commit these attrocities.

Killing childrens have no justification whatsoever ... When the terrorist attack they don't go to a school and fire bombs at the kids... thiese bastids have been bombing even the UN sites which are supposed to be off the war zone ... but they don't even respect that.

next they will nuke Iran and finally they will take ovre and exterminate all islamic followers.

Finally they will come after us, because when you raise crows they take your eye balls off your face!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


If i look at the facts that you have stated.
I start to wonder why did you stop Hitler?
And i am not Racsist or a War monger!
They condemned the Nazi's for exterminanting them.
Yet they are doing the exactly the same thing to the Palestinians.
I just love a good double standard!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Yeah? Well, I'M sick of ALL of them!

The idiots, on both sides, who continue to murder and maim innocents should all be lobotomised, which should make most of them cleverer!

Slaughtering innocents, then claiming 'These things happen in war' is appalling.

They are all as bad as each other, power crazed, inhuman morons, clinging on to the violence as a way of life (ironic).

PLO and hammas militants are indescriminate.

IDF militants are indescriminate.

Equals...murderers.

Both societies based on religion, both societies break the holy commandments of god (as THEY profess them to be) daily.
Murdering of innocents is NOT a holy act. Murdering of innocents is against the word of god (as they profess it), murdering of innocents is against humanity.

Both militaristic sides, and the political leaderships of both, are NOT going to recieve a heavenly or devine reward (as they believe it), according to their own texts, they are ALL doomed to non existence.

Personnaly, i feel religious belief is akin to mental disorder, virtually psychopathic in nature, that is and has been a huge contributor to millions upon millions of murders and deaths throughout human history.
But hey, why break the habit...they are only innocent men women and children eh? We can always make more people can't we?

Sicko religious morons...always a hypercritical and dangerous combination, whatever part of the world they are in.

What i can't understand is, why the masses allow these scum to get away with it, time and again. We are supposed to be a reasonably clever species aren't we?

spikey.

not to be petty,

but this thread is almost out flagging its oposition 2:1, in appx 2/3's of the time...

Heres another flag and star I guess...

because I dont think I genuinely believe there should be a country called "Israel".

however,

The Israelis I have meet in my own limited life, have all been very lovely people.



edit to add, that I have not read either of these threads, or even the OP's!!

and I wont...

[edit on 7/1/2009 by Zeus187]

[edit on 7/1/2009 by Zeus187]

reply to post by TheRepublic


It's a fragment you cannot provide the entire article. That says that someone SAID someone did something. Exactly that, no semantic twisting needed, it is a synopsis of how someone else CLAIMS they are doing something, but you in your wish to prove your false point accept a synopsis that does not tell the entire story as gospel. And not to mention get quite hostile and insulting just because I dare to point that out. If you can't stand a dissenting voice that is VERY showing.
It's called acceptable evidence, and you so far have yet to provide any except suspect sources, fragments of larger piece and insults which just shows how tenuous your position is you have absolutely NO evidence to prove your stance other than a belief that it is true. So you are now filling in the gaps. Which of course is not the mark of a truth seeker only an individual that pretends to be one and perhaps has even fooled himself.

I do not confuse passion with logic, unlike some apparently. Otherwise you'd provide acceptable sources and not have to fill the gaps with insults. Whatever BS justification you may have. It's worth noting I have yet to insult you except for raining on your little parade that is.


[edit on 7-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

And I am sick of people trying to squelch other people's rights to "free speech," just because you don't agree with their views! That is what "free speech" is all about, so get over it, and deal with the diversity that is on this world!

If you squelch or hinder another person from telling their views or voicing their opinions, then that is censorship! Be thankful this site exists, or else you could end up in a "Nazi Society"(National Socialism) where no one is allowed an opinion, except for the opinion of "The State" you "serve." Do you want that? Do you want to worry about every thought, word and action because "The State"(government) might not agree with it? I DON'T!!!!! Because, if it ever comes to that, then I will become the most anti-government person who ever drew a breath!!!

Be thankful you have "FREE SPEECH!"

~ Lonelypoet

To be real honest with you I dont really care if I'm thought of as an antisemite. I am 95% sure Hitler and the Nazi party was engineered and created by Zionazis (ashkeNAZI) to justify driving jews back to the homeland to fufill or hurry along some sort of occult ceremony. Fufilling a timeline or prophecy of sorts.
ISis RA ELohim...just another jacked up secret order of occultism from the ancient world.

Now I know this belief is above and beyond what the original poster said but like I said before, I'm about 95% sure I am correct. Sure its absurd if you cannot see the entire picture and just because many of you cannot see doesnt make you less smart or less worthy as a human. You simply are a victim to a multi generational lie that is very difficult to break. Its basically hardwired into your DnA.

As for the posters analysis, he is absolutely correct