Uhm, I'm really curious about the allegorical story and the dramatical framework of the 3 principal degrees of Freemasonry, to be honest.

A can look at things in terms of a meaningful perspective, from a varieties of angles and perspectives. In fact, seeking the meaning of life and seeing it in terms of myth and metaphor, that's already kind of an ongoing hobby of mine, and of course I too could become a better man in the process. In other words I am open minded.

And any concerns or fears that I may have about the ultimate frame of reference being offered, those really ought to be of no concern for me due to my supreme faith in, and love of, and facsination with, Jesus Christ. It COULD very well bring me into the fuller realization of who and what I am as a Christian believer..

But I know and realize already that the supreme act of faith and courage, as much as it is to know thyself, is also to love thyself, as God loves us, and has even demonstrated, and therein resides the supreme challenge. And so if Masons are looking for new pillars, I know I'd be a good candidate and that my faith, by rational examination of "the Jesus project" as I sometimes call it, is unassailable. In other words, if there's a devil in there anywhere in the system and the framework, he'd better watch out if I were also a Mason, because of my faith in Jesus Christ.
So I'm good to go, and what would be the harm..?

What'dya think? Could an anti-Mason sceptic, and Christian, who's apprehensive about Freemasonry, make, himself, a great Mason?

I don't know, you tell me.. and no, this isn't a ruse!

Best,

Rob
OmegaPoint

[edit on 5-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

And they often try to give me the secret handshake when I run into them from time to time anyway, so I might as well know how to properly shake their hand in turn.

Thank you, and I'll try not to laugh if the elders suddenly try to reveal Osiris penis, I promise.

The love of God through Christ is needed everywhere and in every sphere, and so, perhaps like with AA, the Masons will need someone like me, as much as I need them, ya never know.

Like everyone, I'm not perfect and I have my faults big time, but my heart bursts at the presence of the spirit of God, and it wells out of me, especially in the context of a sacred brotherly community.

It's in us all I guess, and if there's a method to help bring that out, and give it an artful shape, then well that's a good thing right?



[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

I can think of a couple of problems here, the first is that, I thought that you had to be nominated by two people to become a Mason so you can't just JOIN that easily.
The second is that freemasonary is not considered to be compatible with Christianity in that.

The Christian man swears to accept that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prohets in the world. He does this when agreeing that all religions can lead a man to God (Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:9-11; Colossians 1:16-18)

My brother is a Christian and a master mason but it doesn't sit easy with me because of the above.

Just thought you should be aware of this.

Cheers
jon

Originally posted by jon1
I can think of a couple of problems here, the first is that, I thought that you had to be nominated by two people to become a Mason so you can't just JOIN that easily.
The second is that freemasonary is not considered to be compatible with Christianity in that.

The Christian man swears to accept that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prohets in the world. He does this when agreeing that all religions can lead a man to God...

Freemasonry is different from state to state, (or country to country), there is no selective nomination process. Your active desire to become one is all that is required to start your journey as a Mason, (simply by asking for a petition). Our lodge requires that someone know you already for at least a year. But that can be overcome by having dinner with us for a year.

Also, no Freemason is required to swear against his faith, savior, what have you...that is simply ridiculous...

What you don't understand is that, as a Christian, I believe that Jesus is THE man of universal civilized progress, a cosmological Christ if you will, in spirit, resurrected, but, having taken on human form, sent by God and begotten of his nature, ultimately to die relative to sin itself, right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming, - his is also a love capable of dealing directly with the core of the problem in a very personal and human way. In other words Jesus IS my supreme being, and the model of perfection to which we must strive one and all, and he comes in humility, to serve, and not to be served. He comes as the perfect gentleman in other words, but not without full strength, and the power of the highest lawful authority. Thus, it doesn't even matter if the masons have erred in any way, or spun away from the essential truth and reality of the love of God. They SAY that it is in NO WAY incompatible with my faith, and if they are LYING about that, then I can leave. The truth of the matter is all I need is my relationship with Jesus Christ, but he too emerged from within a framework, and a relative framework of the brotherhood of man, relative to the curse of man. I can always hide in the cosmic clamshall of his death and resurrection at any time, and his power will always intercede for me in all cicumstances, in other words I trust in God. And this of all things, appears to be what the Masons are looking for in men. Men couragious enough to be willing to examine things, the most important things perhaps, within a cosmological frame of reference in relation to a Supreme Being. My Christ lives there too of all places, right? So if there's were a devilish system, while this may sound rather grandious or solipsistic on my part, I believe that the Christ in me, the first and the last, the "omegapoint" if you will, would obliterate any evil which may lurk at the apex of freemasonry, if any. In other words I am not afraid of the devil. He was chained at the cross. On that rock, I can be in no jeopardy, since it is unshakable. The light of Christ and the light of darnkess cannnot coexist. The spirit would tell me, and if needed, I'd just leave and shake the dust off my feat, but even now the spirit tells me that probably wouldn't be the case, reading between all the lines around here.

P.S. Post in reply to jon1





[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Are these things true in any way at all? (taken from that link)

Incompatible with Christianity

Though Freemasons claim otherwise, Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible:

By taking the Masonic oaths, the Mason is swearing to uphold Masonry and its teachings. Swearing to uphold Masonic oaths is sinful, unscriptural and should not be part of the Christian's life for the following reasons.
They make a Christian man swear by God to doctrines which God has pronounced false and sinful. For example, Masonry teaches a universalist doctrine of "the Fatherhood of God" (John 8:42)


The Christian man is made to swear his acceptance of the lie that salvation, the reward of Heaven, can be gained by main's good works (Ephesians 2:8-9)


The Christian man swears to accept and promote the Masonic lie that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prohets in the world. He does this when agreeing that all religions can lead a man to God (Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:9-11; Colossians 1:16-18)


The Christian man swears he will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ when God commands every Christian to be a witness (Matthew 28:19)


The Christian man swears that he is approaching the Lodge while he is in spiritual ignorance and moral darkness, when the Bible says that Christians are children of light and are indwelt by the Light of the world (John 8:12; Ephesians 5:8)


By taking the Masonic oath, the Christian is guilty of taking the name of the Lord is vain, because he has sworn unlawfully to things God has forbidden him to swear to. God says He will not leave such a person unpunished (Exodus 20:7)


The Christian falsely swears that the God of the Bible is equally present in all religions (1 Timothy 2:5-6)


The Christian falsely swears to the teaching that true worship can be offered in to Lodge to God without the mediatorship of Jesus (Hebrews 9:14)


By swearing the Masonic oath, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members who look only to the gospel of Masonry to get them to Heaven (Galatians 1:6-8)


The Christian's spirit, mind and body are the temple of the Holy Spirit, "bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). By taking the Masonic obligations he could be agreeing to allow the polution of his mind and spirit by pagan religion or even occult practices.

Now I can resolve the seeming paradox of the exclusivity of Christianity knowing full well that the provision of Jesus Christ was made out of love and extended to one and all in the sense that it's the gift that keeps on giving, and is, by its very nature, all inclusive, but some of these other things are a little disturbing to me..

[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

I would love to become a Mason, but I have no clue as to how I should go about becoming one.

I say, if you have the opportunity, go for it. You could do a lot of good in the world.

If I have to repeat the following in each degree, then I'm out.

Oath of
Obligation, Entered Apprentice/1st Degree, and include in all subsequent degrees,
always on penalty of mayhem and violent death) "...binding myself under no less a
penalty that that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken out and burned to
ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven..." (from the Oath of Obligation,
Master Mason/Third Degree) "...In willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful
penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my
feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon sterile shores of the Red
Sea until the flaming Sun shall strike me with a livid plague, and may Allah, the
god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to
the entire fulfillment of the same."

If I have to repeat the following in each degree, then I'm out.

Oath of
Obligation, Entered Apprentice/1st Degree, and include in all subsequent degrees,
always on penalty of mayhem and violent death) "...binding myself under no less a
penalty that that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken out and burned to
ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven..." (from the Oath of Obligation,
Master Mason/Third Degree) "...In willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful
penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my
feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon sterile shores of the Red
Sea until the flaming Sun shall strike me with a livid plague, and may Allah, the
god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to
the entire fulfillment of the same."

Sorry for the double post. And it's not because I can't swear an oath of secrecy either, it's reference to Allah

[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by 4demon

I say, if you have the opportunity, go for it. You could do a lot of good in the world.

I know quite a few masons and they are really nice people and they do so much for charity,
I know that everyone looks at each other as equal so it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, you are all brothers together.
It's just a problem when religion comes into it i suppose.

jon

Why is it primarily "Christian" sites that post lies about Freemasonry?

I find it ironic that the site that preaches that one should not join Freemasonry because of their 'lies' is a site telling lies about Freemasonry.

@ OmegaPoint: If you are as dedicated a Christian as you claim, would you have the strength and conviction to fight those lying "Christian" sites if you joined Freemasonry and found out that it was those "Christian" sites who were telling the lies? Perhaps you would. Perhaps you would try and put them straight. Then they would label you as anti-Christian, and say that it was because you were a mason.

And then you would be like so many other masons, labeled as a liar and an anti-Christian, simply for trying to discredit the lies of some claiming to be Christians.

Originally posted by jon1
I know quite a few masons and they are really nice people and they do so much for charity,
I know that everyone looks at each other as equal so it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, you are all brothers together.
It's just a problem when religion comes into it i suppose.
jon

Exactly! Which is why discussion of a religious nature is forbidden in the Lodge!

[edit on 6/1/2009 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by jon1
I know quite a few masons and they are really nice people and they do so much for charity,
I know that everyone looks at each other as equal so it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, you are all brothers together.
It's just a problem when religion comes into it i suppose.
jon

Exactly! Which is why discussion of a religious nature is forbidden in the Lodge!

[edit on 6/1/2009 by Saurus]

That's an absurd statement. Religion is the allegorical mask for a sympathetic understanding of the divine or God.

Thinking on it and dwelling on this notion a little further, I've come to believe that as a philosophically inclined Christian, I'm already a Mason, in Christ the Builder, and the Ressurection Life. Thus, for me anyway, I think it would be potentially incompatible with my Christian faith, particularly if I'm FORBIDDEN from expressing myself in those terms, or from challenging others from thinking in those terms, namely that of the Christ within representing the eternal life.

Jesus was well aquainted with the Temple, most certaintly. He was a Jewish Rabbi after all. And he set himself apart from it (was non too pleased with the money changers for example) recognizing that the Temple of Jerusalem and the "keepers of the temple" had become corrupted by the Imperialist Domination System of his day, which was sucking the life out of his people.

And at his death the curtain was rent, opening up the entire mystery and the holy of holies to any man who believes in him and thus, in the one who sent him.

The only reason I'd ever become a Mason would be to appropriate the symbology, and add whatever I find there to my Christian toolbox. You see, if there's a strong man there, he's bound and so I could freely pilfer his treasure and bend whatever is there to be had in service to Christ and to a Christian ministry, and that's something else I'd be interested in doing at some point in the not too distant future.

Thanks for all your help. I appreciate it.

Best,

OP

[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]