Just a few points so that others are not misled by your closing statement:

- The 'authority' of Pike extends only to the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and has no bearing on 'craft' or 'blue' masonry. Also, it should be understood that it was only one man's opinion.

- Crowley was not a regular mason.

- Neither baptism, salvation, nor enlightenment are offered in Freemasonry. Where did you get this idea?

- From the tone of your last statement, I believe you are confusing Freemasonry with an alternative to religion. Freemasonry has nothing to do with any religion, nor is it a substitute for any other religion. You are on the entirely wrong track as to the nature of Freemasonry.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Pike and Crowley, their association with it and interpretations, are what turned me off in the final analysis.

Because you are conflicted, I would recommend that you postpone seeking admission. However, I'd like to point out that Crowley was never actually a real Mason, and that Pike did not hold the doctrine about Jesus that you mentioned (nor did Crowley).

Yes i would have to agree with ML and Saurus on this.

Freemasonry does not promote a single religion or does it make itself a religion either. the only thing accepted for a man to become a mason along with being of lawful age is for him to believe in a higher power/being/energy etc... we only use some biblical allegories as metaphors for meanings and teachings of masonry, but that's it. And yes as Saurus said, Pike's book "Morals and Dogma" (which i recommend and IMO is a great book), is only meant for The Scottish Rite of the Southern Jurisdiction. Again it is HIS view point and not everyone's view of masonry, its symbols, teachings and goals.

You have to start out as a "bricklayer" ya know? A "freebricklayer".

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Given his previous posts, I think he actually still believes his original idea that he got from reading anti-mason websites, and thinks that posing as a prospective candidate he can witness to the damned-to-hell masons who take the bait. As you can see, he uses exclusively charismatic christian websites that are anti-mason and have been thoroughly debunked to allow himself to come to the conclusion that he actually doesn't want to join at all.

Ding, ding, ding. I knew it. As I stated previously, the OP had no interest in doing legitimate research about the fraternity. This was a troll bait attempt. It worked out EXACTLY as I thought.

The reality is, of course, that there is no conflict between any faith and freemasonry. If anything, freemasonry is the catalyst which helps members grow in their individual faiths. We all know this. All the research and facts point towards it. The OP, however, was not interested in the research or the facts.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

Here's an idea:
Now, before I go into it, I'm a lazy guy over all. Part of the reason why I haven't gone myself.
Instead of reading what other people have written on the subject, since it IS a experience open to you, how about you go and find out if you should join Masonry.

Personally, I don't think anyone should join Masonry. It shouldn't be something you have to do, but something you can do, building on what you already have, as in my opinion should religion or anythin in life.
And, if given the opportunity, instead of taking someone else' word for it, take a experience for yourself.

Maybe Masonry insn't right for you, that's fine. You don't like it you can leave.

If the OP came to my lodge and expressed himself has he has here, I would tell him that fundamentally his beliefs, or more specifically, his steadfast hold that his beliefs are unquestionably "right" would be at odds with the way Masons conduct their business, and he may not feel comfortable joining.

The current sitting chaplain of my lodge, upon being appointed, was going over some of the stock prayers that might be said to open or close meetings. He asked "is it OK to end with 'in Jesus' name we pray, Amen'?" And the answer was "NO! By naming Jesus out loud you would be insensitive to the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Pagan brethren." When you invoke the Grand Architect of the Universe, in your heart and mind that may be Jesus. But in someone else's heart and mind that could be Allah. Both are heartfelt prayers. Both are made using the same words. Whether or not the Christian god and the Muslim god are the same god is not important. You're not asking the Christian to pray to Allah or the Muslim to pray to Jesus. By using a placeholder name, both men can pray in harmony regardless of the specifics of their own beliefs.

Based on the posts I've seen from the OP so far, I'm not certain he'd be comfortable accepting that position.

I think the key is humility.....if you are a all knowing, beyond question, self rightious type, you're not going to fit in or be appreciated in an organization that prides itself on accepting others, and offering friendship to diverse ideals.

Would be inquisitors are not going to fit in with the brethren. Anyone however who is a faithful Christian.....or Other monotheistic faith for that matter....who has humility before God....willbe fine, and can be as steadfast to his own faith as he likes, so long as he treats other faiths with respect, and others rights to differ with respect.

The York Rite especially has many very very devout Christians, brothers who walk the walk and not merely talk the talk of Christ's message....but Christ spoke of accepting others, and using love, not hate to speak of the true message.

[edit on 9/1/2009 by ForkandSpoon]

Hi again,
Mr fork and spoon I am so sad the teaching you have had on Christian faith has led you to think that once we ask Jesus to save us from our sin, we can then sin left and right - quite the opposite !
Yes, we ask for Jesus to forgive our sin (that's what he offers to everyone - that's why he died as a 'once-for-all' sacrifice) but we are always conscious that we are not perfect and try harder and harder to do what is right, that is a big part of the Christian way.

You are not alone in failing to grasp this however the effort to improve as we live our Christian lives is basic to following Jesus.

Neither do we stop thinking.. I and most of my Christian friends study continuously and are not afraid of science, maths or anything else ..
what a strange idea you have.

I suggest you open your heart to God in private prayer and ask Him for clarity and then seek good Christian teaching, both from the Bible and a
Bible believing Pastor.

Not, by the way, the kind of minister who (as in one of the next comments on this forum) would pray without saying 'In Jesus name Amen' !
What would he suggest ? perhaps 'So mote it be' as used in Whitchcraft ?

You should always be able to pray in the name of Jesus - if not leave.

Christians should be leading others to know Christ, not duck and wimp out for fear of someone being annoyed by it.

All this "standing up for Jesus" may sound to extreem to a non-believer - but it can be done with love and grace and not in a judgemental way (leave the judging to God).
I have masonic and completely non-believing friends.. I love them.
I don't point the finger but we can disagree strongly.. we are none the less friends.

I have Christian friends too - that does go deeper because we have our love of God, His Spirit within us and His message in common, we can pray together etc. I recommend it.
You may have encountered people who call themselves Christians but are not. Don't be put off.

What with Chaplains-of-the-Lodge and Masonic Prayers & Songs it's no surprise so many Masons think it is a religion and rarely, if ever, attend Church.

I don't know if this column was a ruse or genuine but hey.. we are here and it's good meeting you. I hope 2009 is a good year for you all and the 'credit crunch' is not hitting you hard.
Blessings,
Tim

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
What with Chaplains-of-the-Lodge and Masonic Prayers & Songs it's no surprise so many Masons think it is a religion and rarely, if ever, attend Church.

Did you bother look into this before throwing out such accusations? Its absolutely not true. Masons go to church more than any other group I know. They are some of the most religious men I know. There is no such thing a "masonic prayer" - prayers in the lodge are generic because men of every religion are in it, and its the EXACT SAME TYPE OF THING you hear EVERY DAY at the opening of the Congress of the United States and at graduations (except ours have more of a geometry theme). Do you accuse people attending graduations and Congress members of not being real Christians because not everyone in their group is a Christian?

I know, I know, sometimes I fall too easily for the trolls. At first I thought it might be different people, but it does appear to be the same guy posting the same lies over and over again.

However, I will stop now - its always good not to feed the trolls. If you feed them, they become more aggressive!

[edit on 9-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

I've met a few Masons they were normal and nice people, I've read up on the masons, they supposedly stole the ceremonies from as far back as king Solomon's Temple, the only remaining part of that temple being the Wailing Wall or Western Wall in Israel, supposedly the masons were temple workers and stole the secret ceremonies and snuck the information out and formed the masonic society to guard the secret, but it's been thousands of years and the modern day masonic ceremonies have been watered down and their purpose totally misunderstood, basically masons dress up and perform what they believe is the original temple ceremony, but their pretty much doing the same thing catholics preists do, performing a showy ceremony, there is no holy spirit present like their was in the holy of holies when Moses was performing the ceremonies, it's modern day versions are basically a waste of time and serve no special purpose or significance. Their walking the walk and talking the talk but the soul of the purpose of the ceremony is missing. From Moses' perspective what they are doing is probably blasphemous, but it matters not.

For those that actually want to know a sign of the end of the world I recommend you read and attempt to remember the following words. Stars in heaven, blood red moon? nope, those things may be but they are not specific, here is a specific that will have no need to be interpreted for it will be plain and clear as day when it happens.

When Solomon's Temple is rebuilt, and it will be rebuilt, I would at that point be ready for the end of the world, for within a few years the end of the world will come, the dead sea will become a living sea, water will pour from the re-built Solomon's temple into the dead sea to make it living, this may not seem like a miracle from outsiders, but that sea has been dead for thousands of years and will be a major miracle for locals, it is unknown whether the Muslims will begin war at the first breaking of dirt to re-build Solomon's Temple, but pretty much they will all out attack Isreal, this happens on a regular basis but without a build temple it will be a false alarm, also when the temple is rebuilt supposedly every single Muslum nation will fight against Israel and impossibly it will not fall. I could spend time relating more details but the athiestic presence here would simply mock and I'm sure will mock anyway, but when the temple is built be prepared for the worst, world-wide this will make an impact.

But yeah modern day Masons they are harmless, might as well be the Rotary club or the Elk Lodge, they are just a group of guys that have secret handshakes and wear funny ceremonial clothes and perform ceremonies that they understand not and it's all in good fun, because they don't really join for the secret, they join because they are bored and pretty much just want to hang out with other guys and have nothing better to do, there is no secret to masons, they don't do anything that the boyscouts don't do just on a more mature level.

I am going to assume you are not trolling, and will be able to judge by your response if you are or not. If you are, I will just put you on ignore.

Originally posted by flyingunknown
I've met a few Masons they were normal and nice people, I've read up on the masons, they supposedly stole the ceremonies from as far back as king Solomon's Temple, the only remaining part of that temple being the Wailing Wall or Western Wall in Israel, supposedly the masons were temple workers and stole the secret ceremonies and snuck the information out and formed the masonic society to guard the secret, but it's been thousands of years and the modern day masonic ceremonies have been watered down and their purpose totally misunderstood, basically masons dress up and perform what they believe is the original temple ceremony, but their pretty much doing the same thing catholics preists do, performing a showy ceremony, there is no holy spirit present like their was in the holy of holies when Moses was performing the ceremonies, it's modern day versions are basically a waste of time and serve no special purpose or significance. Their walking the walk and talking the talk but the soul of the purpose of the ceremony is missing. From Moses' perspective what they are doing is probably blasphemous, but it matters not.

I don't know where you are getting this from but its totally not true. I don't know of a single mason that believes they are performing some ritual from King Solomon's temple. The allegory and MYTHICAL LEGEND of the ritual is about the temple, but its just that - a myth. The ritual comes from variations of ritual formed from the 14th-17th century.

It doesn't have to be King Solomon's temple, the philosophy of it could be applied in other ways. But the writers of the ritual set it in Solomon's Temple, and thus we use that.

If you've read the ritual its actually quite complex, but it has no context of religion like you have stated it. Calling the ritual a waste indicates that you really haven't read it - its a significant piece of philosophy.

Originally posted by flyingunknown
For those that actually want to know a sign of the end of the world I recommend you read and attempt to remember the following words. Stars in heaven, blood red moon? nope, those things may be but they are not specific, here is a specific that will have no need to be interpreted for it will be plain and clear as day when it happens.

And this has to do...WHAT..with the topic?

Originally posted by flyingunknown
When Solomon's Temple is rebuilt, and it will be rebuilt, I would at that point be ready for the end of the world, for within a few years the end of the world will come, the dead sea will become a living sea, water will pour from the re-built Solomon's temple into the dead sea to make it living, this may not seem like a miracle from outsiders, but that sea has been dead for thousands of years and will be a major miracle for locals, it is unknown whether the Muslims will begin war at the first breaking of dirt to re-build Solomon's Temple, but pretty much they will all out attack Isreal, this happens on a regular basis but without a build temple it will be a false alarm, also when the temple is rebuilt supposedly every single Muslum nation will fight against Israel and impossibly it will not fall. I could spend time relating more details but the athiestic presence here would simply mock and I'm sure will mock anyway, but when the temple is built be prepared for the worst, world-wide this will make an impact.

And this..again..has WHAT to do with the topic? I am always fascinated that the BIBLE SAYS "no one can know" when the end has arrived, except God himself, and yet so many modern day prophets seem to think they know exactly when and what to look for. In any case, completely off topic.

Originally posted by flyingunknown
But yeah modern day Masons they are harmless, might as well be the Rotary club or the Elk Lodge, they are just a group of guys that have secret handshakes and wear funny ceremonial clothes and perform ceremonies that they understand not and it's all in good fun, because they don't really join for the secret, they join because they are bored and pretty much just want to hang out with other guys and have nothing better to do, there is no secret to masons, they don't do anything that the boyscouts don't do just on a more mature level.

Harmless...yes. But not for the reasons you think. Its harmless because its just a philosophy people use to apply it to their lives.