That's an absurd statement. Religion is the allegorical mask for a sympathetic understanding of the divine or God.

Now we are talking semantics.

Religious discussion of the type which may cause fighting between the brothers is forbidden in the lodge. Of course, someone may have a different viewpoint of what religion is, but if I brought up a 'Spiritual' discussion and noticed that it was causing a brother to become uneasy, I would stop. It's a common sense rule with a well-defined purpose.

In the context of Freemasonry, 'political' and 'religious' discussions could be extended to any controversial topic which may cause upset. On the other hand, if your definition of religion (semantics) was purely 'accepted moral values', such discussion would be welcomed, even if it falls into your definition of 'religion.'

Once the purpose of the rule is understood, it makes sense to every mason. Perhaps Freemasonry should change the rule to: "No controversial discussions are allowed in the lodge." This would also then not lead to incessant attacks by anti-masons on a topic which they do not understand, but which they attack simply because the word 'religious' is used.

I find myself returning to the position that Jesus is missing, and is conspicuously absent the frame.

For me, Jesus Christ is the end of time and without him, I cannot escape the judgement and the price of my sins, which is death. Only Jesus Christ can be the lions paw grip to lift us from the grave to everlasting life.

And "it was the stone that was rejected by the builders, that became the keystone."

He alone is the keystone in the royal arch through which man can enter into everlasting life, peace, and freedom.

To go into these ancient mysteries, would represent, at least from my perspective, another way in, and any other way is the way of the thief and the brigand. He, Christ, is the gateway, the one who stands in the middle.

God cannot make a compromise with sin and evil, and so what we see in Christ is a resolution to the paradox and to the fundamental problem. Everything else is a bandaid but the gaping wound isn't healed.

Lastly, I would suggest that when Jesus was referring to "the strong man" in a house being bound, and pilfering his treasure, in effect leaving nothing, that he was referring to all the ancient mysteries. In other words he took it all, and it's all in Him now. This is what I believe, there's no anti-mason sentiment in what I'm saying here.

Bomttom line, I just don't think it's not for me, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to seriously consider it.

P.S. I am still afraid for Masons, and for the house they may be stuck in, which is completely empty and for a reason. The reason? Man cannot engineer his own salvation.






[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by jon1
I know quite a few masons and they are really nice people and they do so much for charity,
I know that everyone looks at each other as equal so it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, you are all brothers together.
It's just a problem when religion comes into it i suppose.
jon

Exactly! Which is why discussion of a religious nature is forbidden in the Lodge!

[edit on 6/1/2009 by Saurus]

Discussing religion isn't really the problem here, it is the oaths that you have to take, that conflict with Christianity that seems to be the problem.



[edit on 6-1-2009 by jon1]

Edit: Reply to OmegaPoint:

Jesus is missing from the Old Testament of the bible, yet a Christian studies it for the moral lessons it contains. It does not even mention Jesus, and yet a Christian follows the 10 commandments.

I do not believe that a Christian can tell me that they only practice moral values derived specifically from Jesus.

A Christian practices those moral values which will please God, whether or not they come from Jesus. Otherwise, why would they study the Old Testament and obey the 10 commandments?

Likewise, saying that Jesus is missing from a organization which practices good deeds does not mean that it is not good. After all, the goals are those which are pleasing to the Almighty.

[edit on 6/1/2009 by Saurus]

Originally posted by jon1
Discussing religion isn't really the problem here, it is the oaths that you have to take, that conflict with Christianity that seems to be the problem.

The oaths taken by Freemasons are not the ones you have posted in your links on the previous page. Vows of fidelity are required; but let me assure you that in those vows, there is nothing incompatible with your civil, moral, or religious duties.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by jon1
Discussing religion isn't really the problem here, it is the oaths that you have to take, that conflict with Christianity that seems to be the problem.

The oaths taken by Freemasons are not the ones you have posted in your links on the previous page. Vows of fidelity are required; but let me assure you that in those vows, there is nothing incompatible with your civil, moral, or religious duties.

I hope what you say is true and if that is the case then there seems to be no problem.
Like i say, i am no expert but it is better to go into these things first rather than be disappointed later on.


jon.

Given the OP's previous posts here where he constantly exclaimed that freemasonry was a Egyptian cult that was trying to steal salvation from Jesus Christ, I would encourage the sincere posters not to waste time replying. The OP is highly likely to be trolling.

Although it WOULD be interesting to watch what he does after joining and finding out its not the evil cult he thought it was. He would either have to admit as such or begin making up things about it (ala Jim Shaw's attempts).

Given his previous posts, I think he actually still believes his original idea that he got from reading anti-mason websites, and thinks that posing as a prospective candidate he can witness to the damned-to-hell masons who take the bait. As you can see, he uses exclusively charismatic christian websites that are anti-mason and have been thoroughly debunked to allow himself to come to the conclusion that he actually doesn't want to join at all.

Good show, OP, good show. There is a small chance that you are being sincere here - but given your post history and the sites you use to conclude masonry is evil, I do not find it likely..but its still possible.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

It seems that my original thoughts on masons and Christianity are not what they were, i have done a little web browsing and it seems that the oaths that Masons take do not conflict with Christianity as much as i thought. [they seem to have changed in the eighties]
I still have a long way to go or have a lot of research to do before i am satisfied that masonry and christianity are compatable. But It's a start though.

Originally posted by jon1
It seems that my original thoughts on masons and Christianity are not what they were, i have done a little web browsing and it seems that the oaths that Masons take do not conflict with Christianity as much as i thought. [they seem to have changed in the eighties]
I still have a long way to go or have a lot of research to do before i am satisfied that masonry and christianity are compatable. But It's a start though.

Though it may appear that I'm trolling I'm not, and I keep flipping back and forth, and am not entirely sure what to think, but I'm becoming more open minded towards it. A friend of mine is about to seek to join by writing to the local Lodge Secretary, and I first need to get a pardon for a criminal conviction from many years ago as I understand they'll likely do a criminal record check.

Best,

OP

Alright, flipping back, yet again to the anti-Mason position (sorry), I've arrived at the conclusion, particularly after reading about Crowley's Thelema, and the Gnostic Gospels comments about an aspect of their ritual - that Jesus was the ultimate master, who bound the strong man, stole everything from his house, and then performed the final Magnum Opus according to the will of the one true God and spirit of the universe, and so, I've decided definitively, to stick with Christ alone, and not dabble in anything Occultish. Plus, I've already had my own "dark night of the soul" experience and having come up against what I percieved to be powers and principalities of this world and/or others.. a powerful intervention was made for me by my appeal to the authority and power of Jesus Christ, so why would I leave that abode in search of any other power or mechanism of enlightenment, that makes no sense to me, and since I believe all the mysteries are contained in Christ, I have all I need, both for knowledge and understanding, as well as for demonstration. All the treasure of heaven is in Christ Jesus, and the treasure is His love.

Blessings to all, and if you get caught in a snare, as I was, there is a way out upon which the universal consciousness is in full accord.

Best Regards,

OP

[edit on 6-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

I understood that there is no such thing as an authentic "Freemason" anymore. The Masons of today are a kind of homage or reflection of the previous organization, which was destroyed over the centuries and all of its secrets (or at least the true meanings of the symbolism - not somebody's later interpretation of them) lost.

Sort of in the same way that the Templars were destroyed, but groups like the Rosicrucians are still around, trying to pick up the pieces.

Anyway, if there really is a true Freemason's group around, I don't see what harm it might do you to join, as long as you don't have to do any human sacrifices or something.

Pike and Crowley, their association with it and interpretations, are what turned me off in the final analysis.

Plus, as I said, I strongly suspect that Jesus Christ mastered the ancient mysteries, mysteries which Masonry IS founded on when it comes right down to it. I think he pilaged the house and left nothing. Outside of Christ, there is nothing left as far as I can tell. But I am not your ordinary Christian either, and recognize the Golden Ratio, and I don't think it's an accident that early Christians used the fish symbol.

In closing, as a Christian, I think God is Spirit and Truth, and of a highly personal and intimate nataure, and offers the totality of whatever I might be looking for and needing, including an eternal frame of reference, in loving mutuality.

Justice is served in Christ, as well as Mercy. The pillars are evidenced therein, the demonstration made.

To deal in issues of baptism, salavation, and enlightenment, employing the Temple frame of reference, absent Christ, is in my view, as a Christian, utterly absurd. Like I said, I think you're operating in an emptied house, since the strong man could be left with nothing in the final analysis, and Jesus understood this, uncompromisingly so, and for that I am happy.



[edit on 7-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]