I'm sick of the war! And I'm ashamed of my fellow ATS members.

Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum
Religion is a control tool. The actors are witch hunter Thomas Muthee and the "almost" US VP Sarah Palin. Here he offers protection to her from witchcraft. The masses are literally sheep and gullible. The majority of religions essentially worship the SUN. Note how Palin is part of the act.

You are not condemning all religions here are you? Curches that pervert the Gospel turn most of us right off. Unfortunately they are far too abundant in America.

However, most Christians don't even attend Churches. I don't, and I don't follow anyone. I follow the way of the Spirit of God.

Be nice if you respond. One more insult and you make the first person I put on my ignore list.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by John Matrix]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by John Matrix]

An insightful thread OP. All of us with a conscience hate war and despise those who take pleasure in the suffering of others. Seeing other people, especially innocent women & children being killed, while politicians defend their actions, truly makes me sick & angry.

Being a follower of buddhism, I should know better. I know only too well that being in a constant state of anger and hatred is not a nice place to be and neither is it beneficial to ones own well being. So the solution is simple, just don't go there. Turn off the News, throw away the newspaper, gather your thoughts and think positive and do something that makes you happy or even better, makes someone else happy.

When it comes to peace we must first start with ourselves.

It is not possible, for one who is stuck in the mud to pull out another who is stuck in the mud. But it is possible for one who is not himself stuck in the mud to pull out another who is stuck.

Victory breeds hatred.
The defeated live in pain.
Happily the peaceful live,
Giving up victory and defeat.

May we all succeed in finding the path to peace and happiness.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Well put Kindred. There is way to much hate and anger within the world and not enough love and kindness. Star for you.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by lazarus801]

Originally posted by kindred
An insightful thread OP.

All of us with a conscience hate war and despise those who take pleasure in the suffering of others. Seeing other people, especially innocent women & children being killed, while politicians defend their actions, truly makes me sick & angry.

Even on this thread you'll see people trying to get small jabs in here and there and many completely ignore the OP and think it's another thread to rant about who side they are on.

Originally posted by nyk537


As you said, the motto here is to Deny Ignorance. Although I believe your intentions where good, you seem to have missed this point within your own post.

Yeah well it was a case of me not going along with how they felt I was not going to pick a side just to belong and that was that. They ended it not I.

its all rigged.



until the moment comes that the people think something among the lines of, "Why are we doing this? (and/or) Why are we killing eachother... WHY?", the fighting will continue.



I'm afraid its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Hell... i'm even moving to another country due to all of the chaos going on.


Just love eachother... pour your heart onto another person - you will feel it.



Love is not a "doing", Love is an "allowing" you guys...

War, is something the seems to me apart of man, such as breathing and eating. Nothing promotes that point more than the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Where you see the the proto man fighting over water, food and mates. Then once he has found the use for bones as tools, it turns it into a weapon. It seems that man is preordain to fight and kill one another. It is why we have murder, ethnic cleansing, holocaust, massacres, and war. By any name, it is still killing.

Perhaps when all this current fighting is done and we look back. Maybe it will be then that we will realize that we are now or we're in World War 3.

I think the war and how it's been fought(pre-emption, torture, the cost in $ and lives, etc) has been the most divisive issue in America in my lifetime(I'm 39). What's really amazing is that after 9-11 the whole country came together and it was really inspiring to see but it only took 3.5 years for Bush to tear us all apart again with his idiotic policies. Even most in his own party are disowning the guy now given the results of the last 8 years. Bush is simply the worst President in US history and the proof is all around us today.

reply to post by bigvig316


True but I think man has or atleast should have by now outgrown all of that.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Completely agree OP. I am sick to my stomache to see what ATS has turned into. Ever since the elections it's become nothing more than one party or side, trying to prove themselves "right" REGARDLESS of any evidence to the contrary.

I am always so saddened to see someone who comes with excellent evidence be completely and utterly ignored, sometimes by BOTH parties involved simply due to him/her showing evidence that will go against said party's beliefs.

I never encoutnered this level of animosity in other forums, even in the UFO forums where there's a constant battle between believers and skeptics, I still had seen many legitimate learning threads "Is this video real? Yes? No? Discuss" then once enough ample evidence was shown, we learned from it, and moved on to the next video. Heck there's even a list of videos compiled by both believers and skeptics showing and warning users which videos have been proven hoaxes. I've seen many more "Ok, I concede, I was wrong, the video has already been shown to be a hoax, lets move on" in the UFO forums, than I have seen lately in the political and world event forums.

Many here in ATS have become what our founding fathers, and many americans at that time, thought was the most vile insult one can give. Many here have become "party" or partisan people. People that no longer care about finding the truth, even if you say otherwise. The only thing you're interested is in supporting and defending your chosen "side" and will even justify heinous acts done just because they don't want to be seen as being associated with people commiting horrible attrocities. That has been your mistake, that's what you get for choosing "sides" when all along you should've worried about finding out the truth.

I feel so ashamed that what I once considered a great home for those of us interested in finding out the answers to questions we've had, has become a bastion for partisan whiners, wanting to use their vitriol to try and make themselves believe they are "right" even when they're wrong.

Its a popular and heated topic because the Arab - Israeli conflict has been going on since the Arab world conquered palestine in the 7th century from the Roman/Byzantine Empires. Ironically when Jerusalem surendered to Omar the Great he decreed that the Jews were actually allowed BACK into The holy land after a 500 year ban.

Its the only conflict that has it roots going back to antiquity that is still relevent in the modern world. After 1500 years is it really any suprise how much passion people have for the topic on both sides?

I'm not justifying wars and attacks, but when you look at it from the ancient roots you see how both sides can kill over it and feel justified.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by drock905]

I spent about 6 months in Israel, the Sinai and Egypt back in the eighties. I had friends that were Israeli and friends that were Palestinian.
They hated each other.
The problem for me was that the people I knew on both sides were good people. Kind, thoughtful, intelligent with friends and family. Deciding who was wrong between my friends was not possible at that time as I was young and had no inclination to condemn either.

It is incredibly frustrating to admit that we cannot make them get along.

The rest of us can take sides and hate each other over it but it won't help things.

I guess my point is not to alienate friends that you do have because you don't/ can't/ won't agree on who is right or wrong in somebody elses war.

Maybe the rest of us could agree that it needs to stop and then look for solutions instead of going for each others throats.

Until we, ALL OF US HUMAN BEINGS, start to find more ways of loving one another rather than hating each other over insignificant differences, war will occur.

It starts by believing that EVERY HUMAN'S LIFE should be cherished and is worth more than all of the money, land, ideaology, and material assests combined.

Spread LOVE not war.

As Edwin Starr states in the song, 'War, what is it good for for?'
'Absolutely NOTHING!'

Great post OP!
BTW my member name is tl4272. Was a bit lazy to go searching fro password.

reply to post by badgerprints


I agree some of these arguments are made by people who dont even have a basic understanding of whats really going.

It's sad really
for the kids I mean
If adults want to act like that so be it just look out for the young ones.

War is necessary to the healthy development of any civilization. I like war because it has saved our economy at least 4 times in U.S. history. War has made it possible for our people to develop to the point where we have IPods and the computers we use here. Sure, we would gladly give up the death and destruction for only peace and love but then why haven't we? We haven't because if we did someone else would take what we have; land, property, our self-respect.

War between Israel and Palestine is necessary. The U.S. Government in co-operation with Britain and France saw to that following the end of WWI when the Allied forces double-crossed both sides during the war by taking financial backing from Jewish bankers in exchange for the land they now posess and promising the land to Arabs if they helped fight Germans in that region. Which has more value? 10s of millions of dollars, in their time (equal to billions today), or the lives of the honored dead who spilled their own blood so that they could finally and at long last have their own nation.

As far as U.S. involvement goes these days, we tend to support Israel outwardly with the guise of religious similarity but the fact is that we need them for a military foot-hold in the Middle-East. We give them those billions of U.S. dollars to maintain that foot-hold because they have no other allies in the region that they can count on in a pinch. If we left them to the "dogs" every Arab nation in the region would take turns attacking them until they left, submitted or were exterminated. Israel needs us as much or more than we need them.

The religious truth of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is that they are all siblings of the same religion, Zoroastrianism. We are children of the same father who argue over his name, teachings and land. To its end, the squabbling will never be. But if it did, it would be because we are all dead.

Nukem! Kill them all! Let God, Allah & Jehovah sort them out. Otherwise, I would suggest a Berlin Wall or a 38th parallel. A quarter mile wide neutral zone filled with anti-personel mines separating the two nations might work, like separating two children by making them go to their perspective rooms for a 50 year time out. But who would play the parents?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer69-

Great post - but - with a lot of exceptions!
The exceptions being the ATSers who should not be lumped into your *ashamed category*.
I’m not a doo-goodie - but I am an ATSer and I despise what's going on in the Middle East.

And there are a LOT of other ATSers there just like me who find this whole thing offensive and the situation in Gaza reprehensible.

Exert from post “Leaked Gaza Video: Worst Truth That I have Ever Seen!” - Thread since shut down.

Do you think they want filmage of their loved ones caught in the throws of death posted all over the world to fit nicely into someone’s propaganda machine?
Your hands are dirtied in participation.
Would you want your parents, your brother, sister, little baby - while screaming and bleeding and dying posted on some internet site for *Ooo's and ahh's*?

In my opinion, to do exactly what the person who filmed this video wanted - to post it all over the net with the *Oh my gawdddd! Look at the carnage and you wont sleep at night waaaaaaa - is just being sucker meat.

It’s surely showing no respect for the people suffering in death and in life with those horrific moments now recorded for all time to be used by little people who do in fact sleep very well at night.

I can’t do anything to help the people in that video.
But I’ll be damned if I’ll sit by and watch others - who haven't a clue what death and dying and suffering is all about - make a three ringed circus off their pain - without speaking out against it.

(And I might add the video in question was pure propaganda, not an attack and a re-release from what 2005?)

So really, have some HOPE with your fellow ATSers.
We’re not all a bad bunch a people.

I’d encourage everyone to read and respond to this post also.

“Feel sick... Feel like I'm dealing with robots...”
www.abovetopsecret.com...


*P*E*A*C*E*

I want to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread and I would also like to thank the mods for their quick action in dealing with this situation and for allowing me to rant.

I can see that I’m not alone in my feelings and all of you both pro and con have reaffirmed my belief that we can and should get passed our bigotry or it will kill us.

Now let’s all get back to hunting the boogey man under our beds .


PEACE

SLAY

If you stand back and take a hard look at this whole thing rationally and without emotion you are able to see it and recognize it for what it really is, a huge orchestrated destraction being purposefully implemented to avert the public attention away from the fact that the world is going broke and the politicians in power are stealing from us all.

Just my opinion, but doesnt it strike anyone as odd that two factions that have been at each other's throats for the past 1,000 years just happen to break out in another conflict around the same time major power moves are being made around the globe?

A broken world economy, an aggressive Russia, an empowered China, a new US president and over two trillion dollars in unaccounted for tax dollars that have been whisked away into thin air.

When in doubt just fire up the old Israeli/Palestinian propaganda machine and watch as the blind mice dance. Easy pickin's.

Originally posted by BlackOps719

A broken world economy, an aggressive Russia, an empowered China, a new US president and over two trillion dollars in unaccounted for tax dollars that have been whisked away into thin air.

Sad to say people will never look at it that way

you should post your own thread along those lines