Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by SLAYER69
The problem is simple to put into words though. It is about Ignorance and Hatred.
Agreed. I think there are loads of it on both sides. That's just a given because both Ignorance and Hatred doesn't really exist without humans,
and both Israel and Hamas are full of humans.
The Israelis do NOT kill for their God nor do they kill all Arabs ask any Jordanian or Egyptian if Israel will live in peace with arabs?
Again, very true. This is what sometimes is hard to understand from an extra-political perspective on Israel. It's not a theocracy as much as some
might believe them to be.
Jordan is an excellent example of many things. For one, the King (who recently passed of cancer), King Hussein, came onto my aircraft carrier when I
was in the Navy. He was always an ally to the US and by proxy, Israel. During the time of Saddam, Saddam's daughters fled with their husbands to
Jordan. We went over as a show of force, and King Hussein of Jordan came on board. He himself was an a-6 pilot.
Then lets look at the Palestinians shall we? No state because they refused since 47, they do this because no state means no official group to hold
responsible, same thing with Al Queada and the world right now, we can not attack a NATION over the Al Qeuada hence no real Nation enemy...
You bring up an interesting point. One which very well might make this, on another level, a clash of cultures. I don't want to romanticize it, but
at a sociological level, this becomes very David and Goliath-ish, but with a twist.
The real question is, can the current form of super power and multi-national dominated civilization defend itself against the asymmetric warfare of
groups with the specific mission of bringing it down?
This has happened at least twice before in recorded history. Once with the fall of Rome and a mellenia and a half prior to that, with the Ancient
Listen to what wikipedia says about the fall of Ancient Greece
Many explanations attribute the fall of the Mycenaean civilization to environmental catastrophe combined with a Dorian invasion. Whatever the reason,
there was an irrevocable systems collapse which resulted in the complete failure of two civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean region.
In the Dark Ages after the collapse of the palace cultures, there were no more monumental stone buildings, writing ceased, vital trade links were
lost, and towns and villages were abandoned. The population of Greece fell and the world of organized state armies, kings, officials, and
redistributive systems disappeared.
Either that, or it's the other way around and it's like the Americans fighting the Cherokee.. And the tribal ways are on their way out.
Either way, I think you are on to something.
Palestinians do say to wipe Israel off the map, palestinians still have no map with Israel on it and they have lots of support in the Jew Haters, I
say that because I can not believe for one minute if the Palestinians were bombing say Canada or America or France or Australia that anyone in the
world wold say the pals are right as they do when its Israel.
Yep. It's obvious Hamas has issues with Israel. My question is why? But aside from that, I think that it's not that black and white for us
looking into th e situation.
For example. I see Hamas (Not Palestine), firing rockets into Israel. I see Israel getting ticked off. I see Israel hitting back, and from this
point.. rightly so.
The other day someone posted a video, which was actually from 2005. This OP has since discovered this fact and redacted it, but it incensed me so
because of what appeared to be very sloppy military might.
Now I'm not so sure what is actually going on in Gaza. I can only hope that it is highly targeted and surgical, and that children (regardless of the
threat) are spared.
I believe Israel should act with high moral authority and do whatever needs to be done in a manner which is highly surgical.
And if it turns out they have not, I will be highly critical of them, because they are the adults in the situation. And I am NOT a Jew Hater.
Jew Haters side with anyone including terrorists which has been shown and proven as fact over this very conflict.
yes, but you don't have to be a Jew Hater to be critical of Israel.
You can hate both sides or none all you want, but tell me one nation that palestine could ROCKET the civilians of that the world wouldn't say get
them for their actions besides Israel?
It wouldn't happen long here. Believe me. The nation of the USA wouldn't have to plot clandestine missions to invade Mexico, the Americans on the
Border would be doing it militia style. No need for state sanctioning.
This is not about right or wrong, it is not even about pals or terrorist palestine, this is about the age old hatred of Jews.
You have just oversimplified and generalized the problems here. And frankly, it sounds narcissistic.
This is clearly another attempt at the anti-semites to try to rid the world of Jewry. And although I know they will continue to try til the BIG JEW
Jesus Christ returns and stops it all. The problem is so many of these people claim Christ while hating the Jews, your Savior is and was a JEW...
Wow... that was unexpected. I really didn't expect post-modern fascinations with legends of Meggido to enter in to a conversation on the
justification of a war with tribal people!
You really took me there...
I just dunno what to say to that.
I will make one more statement, The day that palestinians want peace they will get rid of the terror groups leading them and they will GET PEACE THEN
and not one day sooner.
When the whole of their fighting men are aligned with the strongest faction which won democratically, it seems to be a bit difficult to do so.
When Palestinians want their children to live in peace they will remove terrorists and their children WILL LIVE IN PEACE...
I don't think it's as simple as that.
All one must do to see the truth here is see how and what Israel did with Jordan and Egypt after their wars, did Israel say screw you and continue the
war or did Israel give land for peace and then honor that agreement?
Israel offered that same deal, land for peace, to palestine but every time they are met with rockets and turning down of the peace plan, so only the
Jew Hater could see Israel as the problem here and it makes the Jew Haters look stupid when they say such things as Mason Watcher has spewed on
See, you make really good points about how Israel has behaved in the past. But then you go all maniacal on me with that "Jew Hater" hyperbole.
As I mentioned above, I didn't say Israel was to blame, just that if it turns out they committed war crimes, they should also be held accountable.
That's not Jew Hating... that's called having a social contract with the world.
Nobody is special.
[EDIT: Removed tons of whitespace]
[edit on 5-1-2009 by HunkaHunka]