Question for ladies with children.

Continued from the above post.. to Agent T...

Notice the very absence of this line of thought by many of both the male posters out here as well as the female posters.

Because socially and often you are expected to follow..not lead....especially when dating a woman with children.

I've dated a number of women with children. I like children but dont care to come in constantly last to a womans tune or the childrens tune. It becomes quickly apparent that with many they think this is entirely normal..even entitled. I am not saying to put the children last place. I am saying the woman also needs to know how to bring me in first place..not substitute my needs and requriements for hers and the childrens needs and requrirments...carte blanche.

I require Peace in the place to which I return after working....not just Piece. There is a huge difference for which most males cannot define. They are actually dumb enough to think that regular Piece is a suitable or reasonable substitute for regular Peace. It is not. No way.

This is what is missing from most of the posts here..male and female both.
In dating as well as if you marry such a woman...with children. Peace.

By the way..Photobug makes some good points in their post.

Enjoy dating these women with children..or even women without children..but keep these concepts in mind. No one wants to talk about them openly but only assume by default that things are or are to be a certain way.

You are not here to come in constantly last place while taking first place RISKS. A knowledgable woman knows this and acts on it..not just defaults through. She can
see sufficiently outside of only her settings and beliefs...what is missing from a mans life and make an arena to provide it for him...first place.
Notice that none of the women on these posts seem to bring up this concept..in lieu of thier requirements and needs. This is a very important clue as to the conditions with which you are supposed to operate. Do not be ignorant of these conditions...though they be hidden and most often unmentioned.....hence easily defaulted.

Notice also that very few of the men seem able to think this through..it is mostly a womans arena...it need not be so. Think it through...do not emote through it.

Be ready, willing, able, and knowledgable enough in dating women..especially women with children..to seriously ask them what first fruit are they capable of bringing to you in exchange for your RISKS as a career opportunity if you decide to marry them...and the children. This is part of leading..not following.
This is important to your Survival and Peace of Mind and Soul Agent T.


Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 17-6-2009 by orangetom1999]

This is why I do not necesarily agree with this statement from Whitewaves post.

Mildly interested and greatly tolerant of a single mom's children is the balance,


Think about this quote above in lieu of what Photobug states about children being a refleciton of their parents. Notice how much tolerance women expect to give while you are expected to be tolerant. This is not a two way street...how much tolerance do you think you will get for your RISKS if you marry a woman with children??

Hello OT. Normally I enjoy our verbal sparring especially on this topic but I'm a little under the weather today so let me just say that I expect a suitor to be as tolerant of my children as I am.

Children can be frustrating and maddeningly annoying. In a dating situation in which you're just learning about the aggravation tolerance level of your partner, a single mom's sense of RISK to her children is heightened.

You don't know if the guy is a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde type who is nice enough over a quiet dinner with just the 2 of you only to become abusive if your kid accidentally bounces a nerf ball off their car.

In your ever present tit-for-tat risk assessment you fail to recognize that a single mom takes a much bigger risk in dating than her suitors do. She may literally be risking the very lives of her children if she chooses poorly.

How much risk went into producing those children? Let's see....the man risked losing 10 minutes of sleep and the woman risked her life, health, beauty, strength and the next 18 years of her life to produce the child. Compound that with the fact that if he runs out on her she has risked everything and he has risked nothing.


If you're looking for "peace" from a woman, especially one with kids, you need to understand that a woman can only bring peace into a relationship if she feels safe in the relationship. That includes safety for her children.

Some of us take our child-rearing responsibilities very seriously and are unwilling to introduce unknown elements; ie: RISKS, into our children's environment.

Sorry but in a dating relationship, men don't get to lead. They can show examples of their ability to lead but a single mom leads her own and her children's lives every day and is not willing to relinquish that authority to any and every man she dates. If she does a child will quickly learn that mom HAS no authority.

As a relationship develops over time a single mom may be more willing to allow a significant other to take a more active role in disciplining and guiding the children but if a date starts bossing my kids around after the first or second time they've been around them they will quickly get a boot out the door.

Dates need to understand that it is my job, my responsibility and ultimately my decision to apply any corrective action to my children. They can make their preferences known and I will do my best to keep my children from offending but if a suitor wants to accept the RISKS of co-raising my children, he will have to show himself capable and worthy first.

*edit for pissy attitude-sorry*

[edit on 17-6-2009 by whitewave]

reply to post by whitewave


Whitewave,
The board was under maintenance earlier this morning and I lost the first attempt at reply to your post. I hope to get the gist of what I first attempted.

Children indeed can be frustrating and maddeningly annoying and require alot of patience and careful forethought. THey can also in a childs way be very perceptive about alot of things.

I will also tell you that I would not think highly of a parent ..male or female who would not be careful about RISKS to thier children

In your ever present tit-for-tat risk assessment you fail to recognize that a single mom takes a much bigger risk in dating than her suitors do. She may literally be risking the very lives of her children if she chooses poorly.

This is indeed true...but it applies to a single dad as well. For as time transpires it is becoming increasingly clear that there is a large number of women out here for whom Instant gratification is their balliwick at the expense of men in thier lives and even the children. It often only becomes apparent when the children become public..not the men..the men are for all purposes disposable and expendable...literally unheard and unseen. This is obvious by the pattern some of the posts here on this topic. By what is posted and what is not posted.

How much risk went into producing those children? Let's see....the man risked losing 10 minutes of sleep and the woman risked her life, health, beauty, strength and the next 18 years of her life to produce the child. Compound that with the fact that if he runs out on her she has risked everything and he has risked nothing.

This is textbook stereotyping. There is a whole system in place to default women and children into a certain place..the men too. Most of the men I have known are put in second third or last place while making payments with no determination of how and to what the moneys are spent upon. In short...she and the child get some of the benifits of a marriage while nothing is protected or him. This matters not whether she left or did he. In otherwords...she leads. Not he...he RISKS for hers and the childrens benifits of marriage..while nothing is protected for him. Carte Blanche. She indeed does take RISKS...but only her RISKS are heard or mentioned...once again...he is unheard and unseen.

If you're looking for "peace" from a woman, especially one with kids, you need to understand that a woman can only bring peace into a relationship if she feels safe in the relationship. That includes safety for her children.

Some of us take our child-rearing responsibilities very seriously and are unwilling to introduce unknown elements; ie: RISKS, into our children's environment.

I understand as well as most but a woman also needs to understand that RISKS are part of a relationship...and an occupation. In a manner of speaking as one gets serious about a partner...this relationship increases in importance/significance. She too needs to understand that if a relationship is to take place..He too needs safety..a safety net ..not just her and the children. Once again..the male is not mentioned. How does a woman of acumen expect to care for a man if she cannot conceptualilze but one way relationships..her and the children?? Is he "Optional" and not responsible as she is trying to mold him to be responsible to her and the children??
This is not unconditional love....it is conditional.

As to being unwilling to introduce risks...or unknown elements into a childs enviornment ...think this thorugh carefully.

How many women..men also.. do you know who plant thier children in front of a television set as a babysitter, feed and water them, ..and introduce unknown RISKS and elements into their childs enviornment?? Yet they ignorantly think this is normal and even entitled. Even the children over time think it is so. Astonishing. I know lots of these women...and men....and thier children. The children soon enough have a television/movie education and are quite shocked one day when they leave the nest..to find out that the streets are not quite like television and movies.

A proper parent/parents introduce their children to measured risks..in order to get thier children to grow up into reality ..to be able to handle life away from the nest. Not to come running back to the nest/television/movies everytime life gets to difficult. A proper parent/parents teach their children to STAND for the day when they will no longer be around to STAND with and for them.
This Whitewave...is LOVE and loving your children ....even giving them love...from the grave...becasue this education/knowledge ..will serve them when one is no longer here to wipe their runny noses and or messy bottoms.

This is indeed ...timeless love...beyond the limits of our physical existance.
Unconditional Love. From beyond the grave.

Indeed child rearing responsibilities are to be taken seriously..very seriously. Both male and female.

Why...because it is and can be a jungle out here...a very rough tough jungle if one is not properly prepared.

Sorry but in a dating relationship, men don't get to lead. They can show examples of their ability to lead but a single mom leads her own and her children's lives every day and is not willing to relinquish that authority to any and every man she dates. If she does a child will quickly learn that mom HAS no authority.

As a relationship develops over time a single mom may be more willing to allow a significant other to take a more active role in disciplining and guiding the children but if a date starts bossing my kids around after the first or second time they've been around them they will quickly get a boot out the door.

LOL LOL Whitewave...I dont agree with you here and for these reasons.

First off a man should watch and observe carefully at first..to determine if he thinks this woman has potential..the children too. Patience is in order here to see if this relationship is going to develop into this very potential.
If not ...dont waste your time as a man trying to instill some diciipline into the children...or woman.
What I will look for is whether the children are grounded in reality or in fantasy expectations and beliefs. If they know how to do more than work a television remote controller and telephone keypad. Has Mom or thier Dad taught them more than this. Do they look or appear to be interested in more than this. Are they looking for guidance from a male...both male and female children or are they fast food lane children.
Are the children running the show or is Mom running the show? Is Mom teaching them to stand on their own two feet or on her two feet...forever??? I do know women like this out here. Some men too. And the children will untimately pay the price for this fingerprint as well.

At an opportune time when the relationship has developed sufficient and you two are alone you begin to discuss this concept of shared dicipline of the children. You as a male must get her to understand that when it is done ..shared dicipline.. it must be done in a manner that the children understand that you two are a team..not seperate. A tag team if you like..backing each other up...and that mom is not powerless or does not have authority...but instead...she now has more power and authority. She has someone watching her back..that she is not alone out here among the wildlife. If the children are disrespectful to mom they are disrespectful to you ..if they are disrespectful to you they are disresepectful to mom. This is your goal. That the children come to understand this if you are going to be serious about Mom. That you two are a team..one team. One!!

This is how you properly and respectfully lead a woman...and children as well.

If you as a male cannot get mom to understand this concept ..or that with more power and authority comes more responsibility.....than you are wasting your time. Drop her like a hot potato. She can never bring Peace to you..only Piece. And Piece is not a good substitue for Peace.

It is Ersatz.

If you are a man...a man's man...you instinctively know that for a woman..the right woman..you will have to go where this woman ..fears and loaths to go. You will have to do things...accomplish things of which they want no part. And you will often have to do this alone..no safety net.
You also know that you..if you are a loving caring parent...you must teach this concept and understanding to the children..that they may have to do this themselves as part of thier survival tool kit. Even to walk alone...and above all else...to STAND.

And by the usage of the word STAND..I also and especially mean to STAND as in HIS WORD and meaning.


This is a fearful thing for many parents..and rightfully so. What many parents have difficulty understanding is that the alternataive is often more fearful if the children cannot STAND.
They also often have great difficulty with the understanding that a good swift kick in the pants or swat on the proper place of application is loving your children. For the world outside the doors..is often way harder, more cruel, and viscious than a swift kick in the pants.

Well Whitewave..I am running on and on..but I think you of sufficient character and WISDOM that you understand to what I am alluding.

I do not actually think we are that far apart in our views here on this...

But I do hope this clarifys much of how I think on this topic.

Thanks,
Orangetom




[edit on 19-6-2009 by orangetom1999]